How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
June 3 (Bloomberg) -- Imagine two scales at the airline ticket counter, one for your bags and one for you. The price of a ticket depends upon the weight of both.
That may not be so far-fetched.
``You listen to the airline CEOs, and nothing is beyond their imagination,'' said David Castelveter, a spokesman for the Air Transport Association, a Washington, D.C.-based trade group.
If that isn't a giant neon light flashing "peak oil is here", I don't know what is.
Joined: Jun 05, 2005 Posts: 349 Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'
Wow, what a clever group we are! We were just discussing this on a thread a few days ago. We even came up with a method of using a scale at the check-in counter to measure relative blubber. The time has come!
Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 288 Location: Houston, TX
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'
Yeah, I was the one who opened that topic. But I think it will be a while before airlines start doing this. Consumers would not like it, ethics will be involved and all that jazz.
But I think it should be implemented because it is fair.
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'
Impossible, since checked baggage is going away. Overnight shipping of baggage is going to be standard. People aren't going to spend 12 hours in FedEx sorting machines of course. _________________ People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement & cannibalism.
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'
I think tickets should be discounted if you are sat next to a "person of voluminous girth". There's a market externality that's never addressed. _________________ "Who knows what the Second Law of Thermodynamics will be like in a hundred years?" - Economist speaking during planning for World Population Conference in early 1970s
Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 476 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'
Agreed that we can't subsidise others' life-styles.
How many of us involuntarily carry more body weigh than we should? How many of us bring on a plane just the essential for the trip?
The other day, on a 3-hour full flight, I asked to switch from a middle seat to window or aisle. "You're lucky," said the clerk. But that was a catch; it was 38A, the last row, where the seat reclines less, and the fuselage funnels. "Oh well," I said. I asked for it, now bite the bullet. I sat down, the plane got full and the 2 seats next to me were empty. Nice, right? Then comes the last 2 passengers, a couple, larger than life, with their 18-month daughter, the teddy bear, diaper bag, snack bag, their own carry-on's, magazines, food, etc. But wait, their cute little daugther --she was indeed adorable-- had to sit in the lap of the parent sitting next to me.
Nice! Thanks! Three hours of subsidising others' life-style.
I'm sure many readers are already saying, "hey, BCBG, why didn't you buy 1st class?"
The thing is, airlines incur an operating cost with the weigh of the airplane. The more stuff we bring into the plane, ie, laptops, clothes, toys, food, etc, the heavier it gets, the more fuel it requires, the dirtier it gets, the more it costs.
So, yes, let the airlines treat us like cargo, since we cannot seem to act not like cargo.
It's not just the loss of free peanuts, pretzels and sodas that's at stake. Analysts say travelers should brace themselves for a new world of airline travel brought about as the industry tries to keep pace with escalating oil prices. They say travelers should expect fewer flights, for planes to get more crowded and for airlines to steadily jack up ticket prices.
Quote:
But in the fall, airlines will eliminate hundreds of flights. Analysts say the upcoming capacity cutbacks mean airlines will provide fewer choices outside the largest cities and fewer flight frequencies and nonstops. On Thursday, Continental Airlines said it would discontinue or reduce flights to dozens of cities, including flights between Dulles International Airport and the airline's hub in Houston. The airline said in September that it would close stations in nine U.S. cities, including Green Bay, Wis.; Palm Springs, Calif.; and Reno, Nev. Airline experts say service to these smaller cities costs airlines the most because too many seats go empty.
As airlines focus on flights on profitable big-city routes, analysts say they expect a sharp increase in air traffic to larger airports, exacerbating congestion in places such as New York.
Leisure travelers will feel the pinch first, airline analysts say. Airlines are pulling out of Florida cities and Las Vegas, where customers tend to get discounted tickets that leave little room for company profits. Terry Trippler, owner of Minneapolis-based TripplerTravel.com, expects business travelers to feel the changes, too.
Quote:
Mark DuPont, vice president of airport services at American Airlines, said that the new luggage fees will bring in "several hundred million" annually but that they still won't be enough to offset jet fuel costs. "There is no silver bullet, nor is this the silver bullet," he said. "The airline industry is not built on $125-plus-barrel" oil, DuPont said.
_________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'
Some of the comments on other forums on that topic indicate that a lot of people don't make the connection between fuel consumption and weight as astonishing as it may sound.
Some of the comments :
Code:
Ridiculous! Insane, idiotic and stupid! --Steve
Code:
I am in shock! Let us put this into perspective, if we allow an airline to charge based on a weight class what happens when they start charging based on the color of hair? How about the color of eyes? How about the size of feet? This is REALITY, it can happen, and we have to be unbiased, rather you be 100lbs, 400lbs, blonde, or brunette. --1
I think it's discriminating. The airlines will definitely lose business. --Joan
And my favorite:
Code:
by thePizzaLady on Jun 04, 2008 at 8:24 PM
yes, I feel it is discrimination.
I also don’t see how it costs more (fuel-wise), the distance remains the same.
My guess is, if this passes, you’ll have a ton of sumo wrestlers very upset :)
Sheri
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I think the airlines will have a tough time educating people for this to be implemented but do they really have a choice ?
Will lighter people accept to subsidize the ticket of heavier people when fuel prices will make flying almost unaffordable for the average Joe ?
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'
I mentioned in another thread that in the future passenger miles per gallon/charge and/or ton-miles per gallon will become a more common way of thinking since people and their possessions are effectively freight.
Most of the males in my family well over 6 feet tall, well over 200 pounds and built like linebackers. I wouldn't take offense if I was charged extra due to weight and/or size. It's nothing personal, just business.
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'
The jets in use today were designed for ppl weighing 150 lbs and you can see that in the size of the seats. So the weight to power ratio is a big deal especially with the amount of luggage people take these days.
I believe in the beginning of airline flight, a carry on was about it as ppl didnt go for extended stays, generally. It was too expensive to travel for pleasure for most folks.
I know if i have to sit next to a big person, its very uncomfortable for me as they lap over on top of me next to them. I feel sorry for ppl who are like that but feel sorry for me too. Get one on each side and you are squashed.
June 3 (Bloomberg) -- Imagine two scales at the airline ticket counter, one for your bags and one for you. The price of a ticket depends upon the weight of both.
That may not be so far-fetched.
``You listen to the airline CEOs, and nothing is beyond their imagination,'' said David Castelveter, a spokesman for the Air Transport Association, a Washington, D.C.-based trade group.
If that isn't a giant neon light flashing "peak oil is here", I don't know what is.
Actually, taking obese passengers into consideration is happening already.
I was booked to fly on a 30 passenger local commuter prop plane earlier this week with my wife and two kids. It allowed only 28 people due to 'weight restrictions'. Two of the passengers allowed onboard were obese. Many others were simply fat. That's why two seats were empty. Since we were a family of four, we didn't board and two single passengers did instead. Rather that wait until evening for the next flight we rented a car and drove the 160 miles.
Fat people forced us to rent a car. We all pay a 'fat tax'. At some point this luxury won't be tolerated. I'll have no problem if ticket prices are set on a sliding scale based on the passengers weight. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
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