Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1473 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
The ultra-Europeans have overplayed their hand. We can now glimpse a chain of events that will halt, and reverse, this extremist push towards an Uber-state that almost no one wants.
While "Europe" blunders on as if nothing has happened, it is now an open question whether the Lisbon Treaty - nee Constitution - will ever come into force, whether the EU will ever acquire the machinery of an economic, diplomatic, and military power, and whether the euro will ever have a polity to back it up.
Henceforth, Brussels will struggle to retain powers already amassed. Functions will flow back to the nation states, the proper venue for authentic democracy. For three decades - from Rome to the Single European Act in 1986 - there were no treaties. Then the pace quickened: Maastricht, Amsterdam, and before the ink had dried on Nice, the ideologues hatched the Constitution.
This was the final throw of the Monnet Project: an attempt to lock in the framework of a proto-state, crowned by a supreme court with overweening jurisdiction, before the ex-captive nations of eastern Europe joined and rendered such ambitions impossible. The deadline slipped.
The failure of this gambit became clear this weekend when the Czechs and Poles refused to mug Ireland; or put another way, when they insisted on upholding the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, unlike our own craven government.
link _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
Yes, it's a shame. The separate European countries don't have a chance apart; dreaming of their old empires, arguing jealously amongst themselves, and guarding the last of their individual resources as the lights goes out.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
The United States of Europe has less chance as the light goes out versus a Europe where the nations keep their sovereignty. With power centralized in less hands I can imagine selfish misguided elite making decisions that benefit their ilk more than the masses of Europeans (call me crazy). I can see the EU forcefully drafting millions of Europeans in order to help the US fight in the middle east for the last drop of oil. In my opinion, if European nations do keep their own sovereignty they, or at least some, have half a chance of having a better quality of existence.
Centralizing power and having that power in fewer hands will only lead to tyranny and bad decisions effecting many more people than they had to. Amassing political power in fewer hands during this crisis is about the worst thing that can happen for the average European.
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 1927 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
A united corporatised Europe with Germany at the heart! Insanity if you ask me! Why, we might as well hand Europe to Fascism.
Although I despise the British Conservatives, I wholeheartedly agree with them on this. The EU is an unmitigaterd disaster waiting to unleash itself on a sleeping world. Don't go there. We've committed one geo-political balls up with nurturing jihadism in the ME in a bid to defeat communism, let's not sleep walk into another.
Where are the Jews...busy venting their spleen on the Arabs. Duh! _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
Tyler_JC wrote:
The Daily Telegraph. AKA, the Torygraph. AKA, The Fox New of the United Kingdom.
And the author of this piece of shameless anti-European propaganda is the the notorious Eurohater Ambrose Evans-Pritchard. Yellow journalism at its best. _________________ only the paranoid survive
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
americandream wrote:
A united corporatised Europe with Germany at the heart! Insanity if you ask me! Why, we might as well hand Europe to Fascism.
Although I despise the British Conservatives, I wholeheartedly agree with them on this. The EU is an unmitigaterd disaster waiting to unleash itself on a sleeping world. Don't go there. We've committed one geo-political balls up with nurturing jihadism in the ME in a bid to defeat communism, let's not sleep walk into another.
Where are the Jews...busy venting their spleen on the Arabs. Duh!
As usual you show your ignorance which in this case might be excusable since you don't live in Europe.
Germany is much more socialistic than England, which is far to the right of Germany and France. The ones closest to fascism are the British conservatives who use nationalism and chauvinism as weapons against the EU. This is what British euroscepticism is about.
The author of the article which you praise is one of the most notorious right wing Europe haters in the British press, who happens to be the editor of the Daily Telegraph newspaper, where this article appeared.
Thus you are applauding the position of those right wing capitalist nationalists whom you call fascists. The most capitalistic, nationalistic and neoliberal nation within the EU is the UK itself, and the Telegraph is the mouthpiece of its most reactionary elements. The UK is also the nation most opposed to further EU integration, due to its nationalism and fear of the Social Europe supported by France and Germany.
Way to go Miss Dream. Applause.
Remind me why you call yourself a socialist ? Rabid nationalism and pro-capitalism are basic elements of fascism.
Perhaps you mean that you are a National Socialist ? _________________ only the paranoid survive
Last edited by btu2012 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:01 pm; edited 4 times in total
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
americandream wrote:
A united corporatised Europe with Germany at the heart! Insanity if you ask me! Why, we might as well hand Europe to Fascism.
Are you arguing that Germany + corporatism = fascism? If so I'd like to hear your logic.
If the EU cannot get its act togther, Russia will chop us up and have us for breakfast. They do not respect weakness; think of all those macho shots of Putin with his shirt off. Here's something from yesterday's Financial Times.
Quote:
Negotiations on a new pact between the European Union and Russia risk being complicated by the confusion surrounding the adoption of the Lisbon reform treaty, according to Moscow’s ambassador to the EU.
“I sincerely wish our EU partners find a way out of yet another impasse,” Vladimir Chizhov told the Financial Times. “Above all, we’re not gloating. It’s not entirely a sign of the EU’s strength, of course, but we’ll be closely following developments.”
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
energycity wrote:
If the EU cannot get its act together, Russia will chop us up and have us for breakfast.
Precisely the point neglected by all those anti-European softheads, and by those so-called left wingers who allow themselves to be influenced by FSB propaganda. Since when did nationalism become acceptable on the left wing ?!?
United we stand, divided we fall.
A disunited Europe is easy prey. _________________ only the paranoid survive
Last edited by btu2012 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 1927 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
btu2012 wrote:
americandream wrote:
A united corporatised Europe with Germany at the heart! Insanity if you ask me! Why, we might as well hand Europe to Fascism.
Although I despise the British Conservatives, I wholeheartedly agree with them on this. The EU is an unmitigaterd disaster waiting to unleash itself on a sleeping world. Don't go there. We've committed one geo-political balls up with nurturing jihadism in the ME in a bid to defeat communism, let's not sleep walk into another.
Where are the Jews...busy venting their spleen on the Arabs. Duh!
As usual you show your ignorance which in this case might be excusable since you don't live in Europe.
Germany is much more socialistic than England, which is far to the right of Germany and France. The ones closest to fascism are the British conservatives who use nationalism and chauvinism as weapons against the EU. This is what British euroscepticism is about.
The author of the article which you praise is one of the most notorious Europe haters in the British press, who happens to be the editor of the Daily Telegraph newspaper, where this article appeared.
Thus you are applauding the position of those right wing capitalist nationalists whom you call fascists. The most capitalistic, nationalistic and neoliberal nation within the EU is the UK itself, and the Telegraph is the mouthpiece of its most reactionary elements. The UK is also the nation most opposed to further EU integration, due to its nationalism and fear of the Social Europe supported by France and Germany.
Way to go Miss Dream. Applause.
Remind me why you call yourself a socialist ?
Remember this....if the Germans get an European Constitution through and TSHTF in terms of global resource shortages and conflict, expect an European army compete with Jackboots and Roman salutes to emerge in defence of the Fatherland! And weep like the gullible fool you are.
Europe can only be united in furtherance of socialist goals WITHIN the context of the Internationale. This monster is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Don't have anything to do with it, if you have half a brain! _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
JPL, I see BTU's take on the EU as being very close to what I gleaned, both intuitively and from reading between the lines, for several years.
I have to thank him also for the heads up on Ambrose Evans Pritchard. I have been reading his take on economics and have wondered what his bias was, as sometimes a statement of "fact" about a country or it's economy that you aren't intimately associated with, appears objective, but isn't at all.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
americandream wrote:
Remember this....if the Germans get an European Constitution through and TSHTF in terms of global resource shortages and conflict, expect an European army compete with Jackboots and Roman salutes to emerge in defence of the Fatherland!
Take your chauvinistic crap somewhere else. Germany is way to the left of Australia politically, and has been so since the 60s. Get up to date on your history. _________________ only the paranoid survive
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 1927 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
btu2012 wrote:
americandream wrote:
Remember this....if the Germans get an European Constitution through and TSHTF in terms of global resource shortages and conflict, expect an European army compete with Jackboots and Roman salutes to emerge in defence of the Fatherland!
Take your chauvinistic crap somewhere else. Germany is way to the left of Australia politically, and has been so since the 60s. Get up to date on your history.
The German Greens and their support for the Iraq war is what passes for left politics in Germany these days! Hahaha! Let me remind you, it is the EU that is pursuing fortress policies, it is the EU that has been dragging it's heels over the admission of Turkey for decades (due to strong German resistance). The EU is supremely racist! Would the EU tolerate the notion of an African European as its leader let alone entertain his campaign drive?
The EU is a fascist entity supported by skulking closet fascists like yourself and is, as far as I am concerned, a greater threat to world peace than the US will ever be. I would rather have the United States at the helm of a dysfunctional world any day....any day, than a United Europe led by Germany. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Elites fail as Europe wakes up to the fascist threat
btu2012 wrote:
energycity wrote:
If the EU cannot get its act together, Russia will chop us up and have us for breakfast.
Precisely the point neglected by all those anti-European softheads.
A disunited Europe is easy prey.
Are you concerned about Russia's power, brute force wise, or their potential economic reach, dominance? Maybe both?
I'm probably reiterating, but the EU has to avoid being pressured, albeit indirectly and through subterfuge, into allowing itself to be used as a grappling hook to prevent the Anglo American axis powers from going over a cliff. If it doesn't it risks being dragged along with it. Alternatively, if the EU is successful, at anchoring the old British elites, it will be used to help haul them back to a position where they will undercut Europe, in the interest of domination. There is no real interest in egalitarian distribution of power, not among classes or individuals.
Germany is a non problem. I don't think non Europeans know how internalized the loss of the second world war became, on an individual basis and on a national level.
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