is it moral to survive?

MrBill · Expert Joined: Sep 15, 2005 Posts: 5646 Location: Eurasia

is it moral to thrive when others are struggling to survive?
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Grifter · Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: is it moral to survive?

I'm not really sure about the philosophy of morality but yes we do it already. We thrive while others suffer. We have done for a long time.

I have no moral issue with trying to do well.

MrBill · Expert Joined: Sep 15, 2005 Posts: 5646 Location: Eurasia

that's honest. I am poorer then the children of cypriots that inherited land and then sold out like buy at $100.000 and sell at $4 million in, umm, 20-years? Right place at right time, but it would be a mistake not to fleece them for every penny that 'they' did not earn. Or am I simply evil? If so, do I get a mini-me?
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BigTex · Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: is it moral to survive?

I think the best answer is balance.

I always ask myself what would be fair for me to expect someone else to do for me if I needed help.

If I were struggling to survive, I think it would be fair for me to expect someone who was thriving to provide some type of assistance to me. Thus, when I am thriving I am happy to help someone who is struggling to survive, to the extent that I think it will actually help them. For example, feeding a hungry person may not be of much help long term and may actually aggravate the problem. OTOH, if I have the opportunity to help them learn to provide for themselves, then I will help them for the reasons outlined above. (I reached this conclusion, in part, after buying many hamburgers for homeless people outside fast food places and being asked why I didn't get them fries.)

To the extent that morality rests, in part, on notions of fairness and the golden rule, I think that striking this kind of balance is moral.

There is no good answer, but I think the best answer is somewhere between doing nothing and giving everything the poor. The problem I have with giving everything to the poor is that I can only do it once, then I am just another one of the poor, and I can't help the poor any further at that point. If I help the poor while maintaining my own ability to thrive, then I can continue to provide assistance to others.
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killJOY · Fission Joined: Feb 21, 2005 Posts: 2510 Location: ^NNE^

it doesn't matter.

everything is to be swallowed by eternity.

who's to witness your "morality"? who cares about it, but you?

remember kafka's hunger artist:

TT · Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: is it moral to survive?

Would it be more moral to not strive to survive as best as you can?

Do we not each have an obligation to do our best in our given situation.? Altough we can offer the hand of kindness to those in need, we should not risk our own continued survival. Survival is not morality, it is what we must do as a life form.

catbox · Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: is it moral to survive?

I don't really know anyone who is thriving aside from the two guys who own the business I work for. Everyone else is just surviving.
Do some of us have it "better" than others? Yup! While not rich or even middle class anymore...I still manage to live better than many people I see around me due to the choices I've made.
For that I feel no guilt. At the same time, I give where I can.
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MrBill · Expert Joined: Sep 15, 2005 Posts: 5646 Location: Eurasia

Remember even if you have 'nothing' you may be better off than your neighbors in 'negative equity', but if they would have been lucky or correct perhaps they would be much richer than you?
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mkwin · Intermediate Crude Joined: Jun 01, 2007 Posts: 624

Morality only comes into making money if you are earning it in a dishonest way. Killing people, hurting people or ripping people off is immoral not making money. If you do any of these things to make money it is immoral. If you make even a trillion dollars in an honest way there is nothing wrong with that. However, if you become rich, I believe you have a moral obligation to give to charity.

Grifter · Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: is it moral to survive?

MrBill · Expert Joined: Sep 15, 2005 Posts: 5646 Location: Eurasia

The richest men - Buffets and Gates - seem keen to share it in a community friendly way? Like Rotary Club International where we cooperate with the Gate's Foundation to eradicate polio worldwide, forever! ; - )
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The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.

wisconsin_cur · Moderator Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 3217

Mr Bill,

1) why are you still awake?

2) I think the question is misdirected.
A) To a large extent I am unable to effect the situation of "others." There always will be those who are just working to survive so the question becomes, "Is it moral to thrive?" Which begs the question what does it mean to thrive?
B) We can control how we "thrive" do we do it at the expense of others? Do we do it in a moral way? How we react to our circumstances is something we can control. I could have made a living selling people mortgages that I knew they could not repay. That would be wrong. Instead I work in health care. In some ways it is still a racket but I act in my position according to my conscience. It is concievable that this could get me fired. If it does, so be it. I will find another moral way to put bread on the table.
C) The question I find most intriguing is how we define "thrive." What is the good life? Of what does it consist? When we come to a good answer to these questions I think we will find very little that promotes thriving that puts others at risk or negatively effects their desire to survive.

peace,
courage,
joy

cur
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Fishman · Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: is it moral to survive?

Optimally your thriving should help others to survive and struggle less. A good capitalist does just this. A bad one does not. (Good as defined as being aware that your decisions affect others) What one must not do when helping others is placing them at moral hazard, your help should not assist them in making further bad decisions ie like the Democrats welfare system.

seldom_seen · Fission Joined: Apr 12, 2005 Posts: 2040

mkwin · Intermediate Crude Joined: Jun 01, 2007 Posts: 624

Even Rockefeller gave away over 500 million of his fortune and as Mr Bill said, many very rich people give vast amounts of money to good causes. Rich people do not create poverty they generate wealth and society as a whole benefits from the spillover benefits in the form of employment, tax and products.