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Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil?
Production; Extraction; ExplorationThanks to Martin Bento for this article

Thermal Depolymerization is a process that breaks down polymers into simpler compounds, much of which can be used for fuel. Polymers include essentially all organic matter (matter made of living or once-living things), which, in this sense, includes petroleum products like plastic, styrofoam, and nylon, as well as plant and animal material, and manure. A company called "Changing World Technologies (CWT)" has a depolymerization process for which it claims 85% energy efficiency, i.e., the energy requirements of the process are only 15% of the energy it produces. Does this solve the problem of Peak Oil?

It depends on which "problem" of peak oil you mean. Many people have pointed out that the polymers that CWT uses require energy to produce and that energy, these days, comes mostly from fossil fuels. Depolymerization cannot extract more energy from the polymers than went into creating them; it will always extract less. In this view, depolymerization is very useful for making the downward slope from peak oil less steep because it makes our use of fossil fuel energy more efficient (almost all proposed source materials for depolymerization are wastes of one kind or another, so the energy it produces is a gain relative to the energy we get from fossil fuels now), but it does not ultimately change anything.

But that is not the whole story either. Although biomass is commercially produced largely with fossil fuels, this need not be so and is not so in nature. It is debatable whether alternative approaches can ever equal the productivity of fossil fuel approaches, but they certainly do not have a productivity of zero, and they certainly do produce polymer waste products. Also, humans and animals will always produce manure. So long as there are plants and animals on the Earth, there will be biomass whose polymers can potentially be harvested for energy. After all, eating itself is largely a way to harvest energy from other biomass, and eating is a sustainable project in the ecosystem (though not, perhaps, for a human population of its current size). Viewed this way, depolymerization can be a sustainable source of energy and, indeed, of "oil". In the shorter term, of course, it will be a pleasure to deplete the backlog of synthetic polymers we have created.

For example, if we reform our behavior so as to improve the health of our oceans, there may well be a sustainable level of harvesting of micro-algae (technically cyanobacteria) for energy. Micro-algae is probably responsible for the majority of the world's photosynthesis. Depolymerization could enable us to capture this some of this energy in a sustainable way (attention Changing World: I expect a ten percent royalty on this idea!).

This doesn't necessarily mean that we will be able to continue consuming energy at current first-world levels. For the next few decades at least, we must tame our energy consumption. But current levels are very wasteful and dangerously polluting in any case, and more efficiency would be a good thing. By cushioning the fall and promising an eventual sustainable supply of oil, depolymerization can indeed contribute significantly to the vital task to saving civilization. Though no cause for complacency, it is indeed some cause for hope.
Posted on Tuesday, March 09 @ 09:53:32 PST by admin
 
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Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil?

 
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"Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil?" | Login/Create an Account | 17 comments | Search Discussion
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Re: Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil? (Score: 1)
by bento on Tuesday, March 09 @ 13:09:58 PST
(User Info )
I should have included this in the article. Anyone who wants to contact me can do so at bentosbox@hush.com. I also have a blog called "Exploded View" at www.livejournal.com/users/explodedview - Martin Bento



Re: Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil? (Score: 0)
by Guest on Friday, June 11 @ 18:20:46 PDT
Bento,<br /> <br /> This article poses more questions than answers.<br /> <br /> 1.What is the specific biomass that acheives 85% efficiency?<br /> <br /> 2. Can it be done with other biomasses at that level of efficiency?<br /> <br /> 3.Why is it not economical to make industires to take methane from human waste, and yet this technology will be economical enough to make Oil out of Vegitable matter?<br /> <br /> 4. What sort of Biomass would you recommend as sustainable? hemp? Canola?<br /> <br /> 5. How many Acres of biomass is needed to produce one "barrel" of oil?<br /> <br /> 6. Would areas of the world with little biomass to make into oil, like the desert kingdom of Saudi Arabia, find that it's best to keep the remaining reserves of crude Oil at home? (Thus making Crude even more scarce)<br /> <br /> 7. How much of our agricultural land will we need to use for the biomass?<br /> <br /> I have more questions, but I'm tired. :)<br /> <br /> Thank you in advance.<br /> - A concerned Virginian<br /> <br /> 6. Would this be more efficient than biodeisel?<br />



Re: Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil? (Score: 0)
by Guest on Friday, June 18 @ 16:42:45 PDT
Aside from the benefits of Thermo-Depolymerization tech, on the hydrogen frontier, there was a recent breakthrough in an ethanol-to-hydrogen reactor that will make hydrogen much more competitive as an energy source. The new reactor eliminates the need for large expensive facilities to produce hydrogen - being small and cheap enough for home and car use.<br /> http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/02/13/hydrogen.reactors.ap/<br /> <br /> Also, here are a few of the recent new stories on Thermal-Depolyermization tech:<br /> <br /> 'Turkey waste turned into oil' - New York Newsday - New TDP plant generating a positive cash flow while selling crude oil converted from garbage at a price 10% less than equivalent oil produced at a conventional refinery.<br /> http://www.nynewsday.com/technology/ny-liturk073836915jun07,0,1109501.story?coll=ny-technology-headlines<br /> <br /> 'Missouri plant begins making oil from farm waste’ – Waste News - Crude oil No. 4, produced from agricultural waste products, put on the market. <br /> http://www.wastenews.com/headlines2.html?id=1085160729<br /> <br /> 'Turkey Fuel? Factory to Turn Guts into Crude Oil' - National Geographic - Details how a Carthage plant is converting turkey waste into crude oil and its potential to solve many of America's waste disposal problems while making us less dependant on foreign oil. <br /> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1125_031125_turkeyoil.html<br /> <br /> 'Researchers turn manure into crude oil' - MSNBC News - Researcher Yanhui Zhang of the University of Illinois has successfully converted pig manure into oil in small batches. He uses a similar process to the one already being used by a plant in Carthage, Mo., that converts tons of waste material, such as feathers and entrails, from a nearby Butterball Turkey plant into light crude oil. <br /> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4732398/<br /> <br /> Successful Result of a California Pilot Thermo-Depolymerization Plant in the Philadelphia Navy Yard on the California Energy Commission's government website <br /> http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/indust/descriptions/100_98_003_3.html<br /> <br /> Mark Harm<br /> Candidate for State Representative - Michigan<br /> http://www.markharm.com<br />



Re: Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil? (Score: 0)
by Guest on Thursday, June 24 @ 22:28:03 PDT
I disagree with the author's contention that this does not change anything. Specifically, I differ from his contention that the polymers used by the TDP ultimately comes from fossil fuels. Consider the flagship process where turkey waste is converted into fuel. The material that makes up the turkey, as well as its waste, comes from the feed the turkey consumed during its life. Ultimately, the energy in the feed came from the sun.<br /> <br /> Of course, large amounts of fossil fuels are consumed during the production of the turkey feed. But that can change. If one would use TDP oil for producing the feed and all other energy requirements for growing the turkey, there would be no need for fossil fuel.<br /> <br /> This is not perpetual motion. As stated above, the energy in the turkey feed (and the turkey) ultimately comes from the sun, during the growth of the turkey feed (corn or whatever the case may be).<br /> <br /> This raises the question of efficiency. Can the non-feed energy requirements for producing the turkey be kept to less than the energy content in the turkey waste? I would suggest that it merely requires the right amount of optimization to do that.<br /> <br /> Whether TDP works as well as they say it works, remain to be seen. But it is a huge step in the right direction. Just think of all the potential energy rotting away in landfills all over the world. Tapping that energy is a huge step toward a sustainable society.



Re: Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil? (Score: 1)
by Heineken on Thursday, February 10 @ 10:23:28 PST
(User Info ) http://peakoil.com
A sustainable society, yes, but a far, far smaller one, as different from ours today as night is from day.



Re: Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil? (Score: 1)
by lorenzo on Sunday, March 27 @ 05:59:54 PST
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TDP is a useless technology. It converts petroleum into petroleum-like stuff, losing energy in the process.

TDP doesn't solve anything, because even the problem of waste streams can be solved with more efficient technologies (co-firing, co-generation).

That's why TDP is no success. They've been around for 10 years. They have one plant that produces 600 barrels of oil. And this plant basically converts turkey gutts (pure oil) into ordinary oil.

No biggie. TDP solves nothing. It's even a bad technology becaus quite inefficient.



Re: Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil? (Score: 1)
by Optimist on Friday, July 22 @ 17:58:27 PDT
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TDP is a major "biggie". It converts waste (which currently someone has to pay good money to dispose of) into a useful product: oil. It is unique in that it can receive a wet waste (unlike say pyrolysis) and convert it into oil. It has a far superior conversion efficiency than anaerobic digestion and importantly yields a liquid fuel, which is far superior to a gaseous fuel (in terms of ease of use, energy required to pump over distance and safety). Co-firing and co-generation are fine technologies...for generating electricity. Since peak oil is about the end of cheap liquid fuel, neither will do much good.


Q: If turkey guts is "pure oil", why are we not driving our cars on it?
A: It is not in a useable form. TDP converts it from a stinking mess into a useful product.




Re: Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil? (Score: 1)
by Optimist on Thursday, July 28 @ 14:01:21 PDT
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More good news: TDP oil just got included as "renewable" diesel in the Energy Bill. This means a tax credit of $42/barrel, effectively reducing production cost from $80/barrel to $40/barrel. Expect to see a TDP in your neighborhood soon!



Re: Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil? (Score: 1)
by FarmerOnMars on Thursday, January 24 @ 16:56:26 PST
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When examined even a little bit critically, CWT is ridiculous -- they have a "technology" that is the same thing as skimming the fat off some simmering turkey guts, and they claim that they will solve the problem of peak oil! 

They are off by about 9 orders of magnitude. 

The trouble with this and countless other hucksters in the "alternative energy" sphere is that they aren't doing the most basic math, chemistry, or physics.  Anyone who doesn't explicitly explain what their technology is, how it works, and how it will scale to solve some significant fraction of the problem is not worth your time or energy.  There are some great companies out there -- Nanosolar, First Solar, wind turbine companies, geothermal companies, etc. -- but CWT is not even within shouting distance of any of them.

By the way, all of the algae energy companies are pursuing eukaryotic algae, *not* cyanobacteria.  And the most promising approaches involve growing them in ponds or bioreactors, not harvesting them from the open ocean, which is a lot more difficult and expensive -- and algae tech is much too expensive as it is...



Re: Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil? (Score: 1)
by Uniquack on Thursday, May 29 @ 18:58:12 PDT
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We have to face the thermodynamic limits to industrial society.  Thermal depolymerization may make our civilization more efficient as it drops down the PO curve, leveling the slope somewhat, but it is not solution.  Doing less, doing with less, is the only solution.  We need a new steady state economy that is not predicated on growth to be sustainable.  This will mean new currency systems, new legal regimes governing economic conduct and economic organization.  Meanwhile, TD could either help us buy time to do this or prevent needed changes from happening until all possible resources are tapped out completely.  It's technologically interesting, but let us not forget to close resource loops: the nutrients that are left over will need to be put back into farm fields. Otherwise, we are just burning our topsoil.



Re: Does Thermal Depolymerization Solve the Problem of Peak Oil? (Score: 1)
by TomSaidak on Monday, December 22 @ 09:50:18 PST
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About TDP....
It does not require any change in aggricultural practices OTHER then gathering the waste.  No new land has to be used, no crops changed.  Five tons of waste is generated by each person a year just in meat byproducts alone.  The process does not just turn turkey fat into oil.  It changes EVERY carbon and hydrogen atom into a hydrocarbon molecule or water.  It will produce oil from paper.  Not alot of fat there...  The byproducts of a paper mill can be turned into oil.  If you use mad cow diseased brains, the water will be absolutely sterile as the prions/viruses that cause the disease will have been converted to oil.  This is why medical waste products can be used in the process.  IF you take the existing waste streams, you can turn household/office garbage, sewage, tires, paper pulp, aggricultural and medical waste into oil.  All of these streams would yield 77.5% of our current oil needs.  If we elected to mandate PHEV technology for every vehicle up to commercial van (FEDEX/DHL/UPS) and shuttle buses, the oil produced would provide 130% of our oil needs.  The surplus could be used to produce electricity, export, or to replace the oil lost in the industry (plastic and tires) to waste cycle.   
Additional byproducts of TDP are the chemicals that are NOT changed into oil, such as calcium, sulphur, carbon, metals and clean water.   The plant in Carthage is said to produce fertilzer, but the information is rather scant.  So I can't tell you if they produce a product that you can shovel into a bag and sell at a local nursery, or if it is chemical precursors. 
In terms of being green TDP starts at being 60% effective in removing fossilized carbon from our energy use.  Tires and plastic from fossil fuels used as feedstock will still emit fossilized carbon.   If deployed to its maximum capacity, the TDP products can be used to make the next generation of tires and plastics.  As this happens, in theory we can remove 100% of all fossil carbon from our energy and industrial product to waste cycles.  As for other emissions, it will not reduce NOX as that is a function of engine efficiency.  It will reduce metal and sulphur emissions as TDP oil has not sat in the ground for thousands or millions of years soaking up chemicals.  It will not be 100% at this point, but it will be rather close. It also reduces our landfill needs by between 80 and 95%.  Initially, we can also revisit all closed landfills, and pull the trash out to make even more oil. 
I have paid attention to waste products for the US only.  I do not know how far this could go towards reducing the world's consumption of oil.  I do know that US deployment would drop world consumption by 20%.  On the surface, it would appear that adding Europe and Canada would help push it over 50%.