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View unanswered posts | View active topics
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seahorse
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:58 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 2315 Location: Arkansas
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For what its worth, I've previously expressed the opinion that an economic depression in the US would precipitate an Israeli strike against Iran, for the simple reason that the Israeli state and war machine is wholly dependent on US economic support. If that ever dries up, or if the dollar becomes worthless, the Israelis would be forced to take military action while they still had bombs and ammo (before they rusted away). This theory may get tested, as the Israeli stock market is showing the first signs of panic over the economic situation in the U.S.
Israel National News
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stu
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:28 pm |
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Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 2589 Location: Ye Olde Englande
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Russian energy giant Gazprom signs deal to develop major Iran oil fields
Quote: Iran and Russia have signed a energy development deal involving onshore and offshare oil and gas fields
The National Iranian Oil Co. and Russia's Gazprom have signed an agreement to develop Iran's crude oil and natural gas fields, particularly Azadegan, the largest onshore oil field in the country with estimated reserves of 42 billion barrels. The deal, signed on July 13 in wake of the withdrawal by France's Total, was meant to pave the way for Russia to become a leading foreign contractor in Iran's energy sector.
Herald TribuneGrave mistake to attack Iran, warns SyriaQuote: Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian president, warned yesterday that any attack on Iran's nuclear programme would have grave consequences for the US, Israel and the whole world.
But Assad, Iran's most important Arab ally, also promised to discuss the issue with Tehran, suggesting that Syria, itself shunned by the US, could mediate in a crisis which has escalated, with Iranian and Israeli sabre-rattling in the last fortnight.
"It will cost the US and the planet dear," he told France Inter radio yesterday during his visit to Paris. "Israel will pay directly the price of this war. Iran has said so. The problem is that when one starts such action in the Middle East, one cannot manage ... reactions that can spread out over years or even decades."
GuardianIran: Talks with US possible soonQuote: Iranian leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said talks with the United States are possible in the near future, according the country's official news agency.
But he said that such talks would not happen at governmental level.
Tension has grown recently amid Iranian missile tests and speculation over a possible Israeli attack on Iran's nuclear facilities.
The US cut ties with Iran after the 1979 revolution and the seizure of 63 people at the US embassy in Tehran.
BBC
_________________ "The age of excess is over. The age of entropy has begun"
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seahorse2
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:52 am |
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Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 2062
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Iran launches a new satellite.
News
I find that interesting, bc over the last several years, it seems Israel has been very concerned about Iran's satellite program. In a nutshell, in the past, Israel has intimated it would strike Iran's nuclear program prior to Iran getting "eyes" in the sky which would give them advance warning of any Israeli attack. Here's a previous post on the issue from years back:
seahorse2 wrote: The timing of any military attack on Iran probably has more to do with Iran's ability to "see" an attack coming than the state of development of their nuclear program or UN negotiations. For example, it was previously reported that the end of March was Israel's point of no return for a military option against Iran, and that the timing of the end of March was due to "fears of Irans growing intelligence-gathering capability" through the launch of satellites. According to this article, the Russians launched the first Iranian satellite in October 2005. This was reported on December 11, 2005 by the Times Online, sorry, can't refind the link but think the article is posted previously on this same forum. It has also been reported that the Iranians will be launching a second satellite in late March 2006. Space DailyThe West apparently fears the Iranian satellite program could be a "trojan horse" for a WMD program, similar to North Korea. Free RepublicIsrael reports these Iranian satellites and missiles are "spy satellites" using technology to foil Israeli defenses that cause Israel a lot of damage. Haaretz DailyFor an interesting chronology of Iran's missile development program, check this site out and click on whatever year you want to review. NTIAll this to say, it appears that any deadline for a strike against Iran has more to do with two things: (1) striking while the Iranians don't have the satellite capability to detect a preemptive strike; (2) striking before the Iranians get the missile capability to effectively launch a missile counter-strike.
Iran attack thread
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allenwrench
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:39 pm |
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Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:00 am Posts: 893
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Nickel wrote: HKFarmboy wrote: TEHRAN, Iran - "Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards test-fired nine long- and medium-range missiles Wednesday in war games officials say are in response to U.S. and Israeli threats, state television reported.Gen. Hossein Salami This is something I think people are tending to forget. Iran isn't Iraq. Not by a long shot. Iraq was essentially defenseless, but Iran isn't. Faced with nuclear-armed invaders, they really can't prevail. But that's not to say they can't put a beating on their assailants the likes of which the US hasn't endured since the Pacific campaigns of the Second World War. I don't think Iran could hold off a truly determined United States. But I do believe they have the capacity to inflict loses on the US military that will be shocking and horrifying to the people of the United States, and reveal the feet of clay upon which even the greatest powers stand... we're all mortal, after all. To me, the single most concerning fact is that the Russians have sold Iran a group of land-based anti-ship cruise missiles that they designed specifically to counter the advantage the US had in carrier fleets. The SS-N-22 Sunburn was intended specifically to be used to defend the coast from an amphibious assault, and it makes the Exorcet look like a toy by comparison. They fly at twice the speed of sound and present an attack profile width only slightly wider than 30 inches. A single one could cripple, and potentially even sink, an aircraft carrier. I don't think anyone knows for sure just how many the Russians sold Iran, aside from Russia and Iran. So while I agree that Iran can't ultimately prevail, at least not alone, in defending its sovereignty, I think people need to keep in mind that an earnest attack on Iran presents potential losses the likes of which no Western country has seen since our grandparents' day.
How would it be different?
With the 'shock and awe' campaign bombing for weeks or months on end, Wouldn't Iran be in the same condition as Iraq?
It is hard to get the truth about such issues. Some say Iran's need nukes for energy is legitimate. Others say no it is not. We can't go by past performance of the gov, as we were told nothing but lies about Iraq.
Too bad the US didn't plant at least one or two weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, We may have had more faith in our gov if they kept us in the dark about their lies.
I will say all this 'attacking' will come back to haunt us. We use the euphemism shock and awe as a catch phrase to not say we are killing masses of people before the process of invading their country
Humans operate via the 'monkey see monkey do' mentality. So we should not complain when the bill comes due for us to pay...but of course we will as we (Americans) think we are exempt.
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Nickel
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:17 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 am Posts: 1988 Location: The Canada of America
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allenwrench wrote: How would it be different? Well, most importantly, when Iraq was attacked in 2003, it was still on the ropes from the war in 1991. The US and Britain never got off its neck, it never rebuilt its forces substantially or bought new weapons systems, or had real independence to act. Remember, Iraq didn't jump up and attack the US; the US just kicked it around for a decade and then went for the throat, like a cat toying with a mouse. And even then, that mouse is hardly what you'd call dead, is it? Iran is not in that position. Its last war was with Iraq, and ended 20 years ago. It's been rebuilding its forces since then, and as been buying weapons systems from Russia. I'm not saying it's a match for the US. But I'm saying it's no pushover. If the US attacks Iran, you can, quite honestly, expect it to hurt the US as well. It won't be a bloodless video game. It WILL cost lives. If Iran attacks the carriers, and it probably can, then thousands, maybe tens of thousands of US lives. It's not something to take lightly. allenwrench wrote: It is hard to get the truth about such issues. Some say Iran's need nukes for energy is legitimate. Others say no it is not. We can't go by past performance of the gov, as we were told nothing but lies about Iraq.
With Israel having something like 200 of them, and the US constantly stroking its beard in public about whether or not to fly in and kill millions of Iranians, I honestly could not blame them if they really were out to get the bomb. But I'm not convinced they are. There's no question they want to go nuclear so they can sell (rather than just burn) more oil. You'd consider growing cheap soy to eat, too, if your only export was caviar.
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mos6507
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:31 am |
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:00 am Posts: 7175 Location: Boston Suburbs
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allenwrench wrote: Too bad the US didn't plant at least one or two weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, We may have had more faith in our gov if they kept us in the dark about their lies.
That's a good point you've brought up. If the US is so quick to conspire, if it brought down the twin towers with planted explosives and all, then why DIDN'T it plant WMDs in Iraq? This is where the conspiracy theories start to break down.
If there is anything the Bush administration has to show for itself it is INCOMPETENCE. I think the administration actually believed the WMDs were there. There is no way they would want to set themselves up for the shame of not finding them afterwards. Not that it really changes things that much.
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Taghayee
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:24 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:00 am Posts: 279 Location: Classified
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I am positive that they couldnt just get away by sprinkling some yellow cake over Sadaam's sons dead bodies. 
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Carlhole
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:33 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 3977
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mos6507 wrote: allenwrench wrote: Too bad the US didn't plant at least one or two weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, We may have had more faith in our gov if they kept us in the dark about their lies.
That's a good point you've brought up. If the US is so quick to conspire, if it brought down the twin towers with planted explosives and all, then why DIDN'T it plant WMDs in Iraq? This is where the conspiracy theories start to break down. If there is anything the Bush administration has to show for itself it is INCOMPETENCE. I think the administration actually believed the WMDs were there. There is no way they would want to set themselves up for the shame of not finding them afterwards. Not that it really changes things that much.
Because if WMD were found, then there would have to also exist abundant evidence of a sophisticated, highly organized program to produce them.
There would have to also exist many, many scientists, technicians and support personnel; there would have to exist facilities infrastructure; materials acquisitions links, etc.
If you just planted a few fully functioning and complete WMD's without there being any supporting infrastructure and 1000's of supporting personnel, the weapons would look exactly as they were -- planted evidence. It would stick out obviously to everyone who bothered to look at the details.
It was much simpler and sneakier to say, "Oops, we fu*ked up".
_________________ "...the WTC dust contains people. That's probably true. It's also the forensic evidence that speaks to us. We have to listen what it has to say"
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Nickel
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:05 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 am Posts: 1988 Location: The Canada of America
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Carlhole wrote: It was much simpler and sneakier to say, "Oops, we fu*ked up".
Exactly. "We did it for all the right reasons... we did it for YOU! WE LOVE YOOOOUUUUU!!! ...And all the money we're making."
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Micki
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:34 pm |
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 2400 Location: Australia
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I actually think they were betting on finding something....anything.
So accusing Iraq of having WMD was probably seen as a safe bet even if they didn't have any evidence at the time.
Secondly I also think we give Bush administration too much credit for planning these things.
First of all the big decisions are made elsewhere. Planning is then outsourced to the appropriate teams. In case of falseflags etc you have teams working independently of eachother with different agendas. For example one team gets to work on drawing away attention using trainings etc and another team works on carrying out the operation. Whitehouse then announces the official bits and gets credit/blame. Whitehouse and house of reps. is the ultimate patsy. Criminal non-the-less as they have through corruption and mismanagement and by caving into to pressure given up authority they should have.
_________________ Gold is the money of Monarchs, Silver is the money of gentlemen, Barter is the money of peasants, Debt is the money of slaves - LeMetropoleCafe
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starsky
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:31 am |
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:00 am Posts: 32
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Iran certainly has the capabilities to disrupt the oil flow from the Middle East to the US. And if they don't yet have that capability, they will soon, because even a retarded hyena on LSD would realize that it's the achilles' heel of the US in this region.
That will obviously cause oil prices to skyrocket and nobody would enjoy that. The US would probably also be blamed for this and further alienate itself from the rest of the world.
China and other creditor nations can also easily threaten to drop some of it's $1.7 trillion in US bonds and other assets, which will make it much harder for the US to conduct any meaningful military strikes on Iran when their wallets are empty.
Israel could however organize an air strike on Irans nuclear facilities, but they would have to face the consequences.
It's all rather pointless in the end. All these people making the decisions have too big egos.
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allenwrench
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:05 am |
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Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:00 am Posts: 893
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Carlhole wrote: mos6507 wrote: allenwrench wrote: Too bad the US didn't plant at least one or two weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, We may have had more faith in our gov if they kept us in the dark about their lies.
That's a good point you've brought up. If the US is so quick to conspire, if it brought down the twin towers with planted explosives and all, then why DIDN'T it plant WMDs in Iraq? This is where the conspiracy theories start to break down. If there is anything the Bush administration has to show for itself it is INCOMPETENCE. I think the administration actually believed the WMDs were there. There is no way they would want to set themselves up for the shame of not finding them afterwards. Not that it really changes things that much. Because if WMD were found, then there would have to also exist abundant evidence of a sophisticated, highly organized program to produce them. There would have to also exist many, many scientists, technicians and support personnel; there would have to exist facilities infrastructure; materials acquisitions links, etc. If you just planted a few fully functioning and complete WMD's without there being any supporting infrastructure and 1000's of supporting personnel, the weapons would look exactly as they were -- planted evidence. It would stick out obviously to everyone who bothered to look at the details. It was much simpler and sneakier to say, "Oops, we fu*ked up".
Makes sense...the gov would of if they could of, but just could not figure out a way.
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allenwrench
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:10 am |
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Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:00 am Posts: 893
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mos6507 wrote: allenwrench wrote: Too bad the US didn't plant at least one or two weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, We may have had more faith in our gov if they kept us in the dark about their lies.
That's a good point you've brought up. If the US is so quick to conspire, if it brought down the twin towers with planted explosives and all, then why DIDN'T it plant WMDs in Iraq? This is where the conspiracy theories start to break down. If there is anything the Bush administration has to show for itself it is INCOMPETENCE. I think the administration actually believed the WMDs were there. There is no way they would want to set themselves up for the shame of not finding them afterwards. Not that it really changes things that much.
I don't know if the twin towers was a conspiracy or not.
Maybe the idea with Iraq was more of 'wishful thinking' They may have figured there must be something there we can blame it on.
But just like twin towers...I do not know what the gov thinks or does behind the scenes.
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seahorse2
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:00 am |
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Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 2062
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The last thing we need is the EU giving the US any nod to attack Iran. The EU may not be pushing the US, but they certainly are now standing behind Bush on his accusation Iran is developing nuclear weapons, and what timing for this latent support, right before a presidential election and at the cusp of "world financial meltdown."
Quote: VIENNA, Austria - Iran is nearing the ability to arm a nuclear warhead even if it insists its atomic activities are peaceful, the European Union warned Wednesday.
In comments prepared for delivery to the International Atomic Energy Agency's 35 board members, the EU also asserted that Iran appeared to have had a past nuclear arms program despite its denials.
The statement was made available to reporters as the meeting turned its attention on Iran's nuclear defiance on its third day. The main international concerns focus on the country's refusal to freeze uranium enrichment despite three U.N. Security Council sanctions and its blocking of IAEA attempts to follow up on intelligence suggesting it was developing a nuclear arms program until several years ago.
Iran insists its nuclear activities are geared only toward generating power. But Israel says the Islamic Republic could have enough nuclear material to make its first bomb within a year. The U.S. estimates Iran is at least two years away from that stage, and some experts say the country could reach that stage in as little as 6 months through uranium enrichment.
An IAEA report drawn up for Wednesday's meeting says Iran has increased the number of centrifuges used to process uranium to nearly 4,000 from 3,000 just a few months ago.
But David Albright, whose Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security closely tracks suspect secret proliferators, has also been able to extrapolate other information from the report that is less obvious but of at least equal concern.
Iran, he says, has managed to iron out most of the bugs in the intensely complicated process of enrichment that often saw the centrifuges breaking down. The machines, he says "now appear to be running at approximately 85 percent of their stated target capacity, a significant increase over previous rates."
That, he says means, they can produce more enriched uranium faster. And while the IAEA says the machines have spewed out only low-enriched material suitable solely for nuclear fuel, producing enough of that can make it easy to "break out" quickly by reprocessing it to weapons-grade uranium.
To date, Iran has produced nearly 1,000 pounds of low-enriched uranium, said the report — close to what Albright says is the 1,500-pound minimum needed to produce the 45-60 pounds needed for a simple nuclear bomb under optimal conditions.
And with Iran's centrifuges running ever more smoothly, it "is progressing toward this capability and can be expected to reach it in six months to two years," says Albright.
Touching on such fears, the statement by the 27-nation EU said that Iran's defiance of Security Council demands on enrichment is troubling "because it brings us closer to the moment where Iran will have fissile materials for a weapon, if it chose to increase their degree of enrichment."
It also cast serious doubt on Iranian assertions that it never embarked on studies geared toward making nuclear weapons.
While the evidence "remains to be verified, the IAEA's exhaustive and detailed" information, "leads one to think that the Iran has methodically pursued a program aimed at acquiring the nuclear bomb," the statement said.
In a statement, Iran's mission to the IAEA again denied wrongdoing and suggested the pressure was part of a U.S. witchhunt.
The Islamic Republic "has repeatedly declared that there is not and has not been any undeclared nuclear activities and material in Iran," it said, denouncing the "fabricated and baseless allegations ... produced by the United States."
An IAEA report circulated to the board members Monday that faulted Iran for blocking efforts to further investigate the alleged weapons program.
Part of the report touched on what appeared to be drawings and calculations by Iranian engineers on reconfiguring its Shahab-3 missile to be able to carry a nuclear payload. Iranian officials say the missile has a range of 1,250 miles — enabling a strike on Israel and most of the Middle East.
Gregory L. Schulte, Washington's chief IAEA delegate, noted that — beyond dismissing the allegations — Iran "refuses to provide credible explanations to support its claims that all of this information ... is pure forgery and fabrication."
And his German counterpart, Ruediger Luedeking, said that "if Iran is not pursuing a military nuclear program it should have no difficulty in cooperating with the agency.
"Iran needs to explain why its military is so deeply involved in its nuclear program," he said.
Yahoo News
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mos6507
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Post subject: Re: Iran- Latest News Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:21 am |
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:00 am Posts: 7175 Location: Boston Suburbs
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seahorse2 wrote: The last thing we need is the EU giving the US any nod to attack Iran. The EU may not be pushing the US, but they certainly are now standing behind Bush on his accusation Iran is developing nuclear weapons, and what timing for this latent support, right before a presidential election and at the cusp of "world financial meltdown."
Let's say the EU is right. Does that change your opinion on the issue? What if the UN passed a security council resolution allowing the use of force? I'm just wondering whether any degree of international solidarity against Iran would change your opinion or that you'd want them to just get a free pass regardless of what they do?
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