[Gardening] Winter Gardens

[RedStateGreen]

every f* seed I plant my family (mother and 2 sisters) ask the why?

Tell them it's because you like to eat.

That's why I plant stuff.

[RedStateGreen]

I dunno. In earlier historical eras many people (whole cultures, even) were expert foragers but they starved anyway in hard times. Just more slowly.

Well, heck, why not just shoot yourself and be done with it then?
I'll die when it's my time, and not a second before, working to outsmart it the whole way.

You can outsmart Death?
Lots of people shoot themselves every time they open their mouths.
Wishing you a hearty struggle right up to the last, gasping second.
"And darkness and decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."

Hey, I thought you were joking around but then I remembered your family situation. I'm sorry if this upset you.

[Heineken]

No, I wasn't upset, RSG. I didn't even make that connection with my family dilemmas.

Was just sort of fooling around, myself.

Thanks for your concern, though.

[SpringCreekFarm]

Sorry I to hear Rocc and sorry I got here so late. Been a bit scattered lately. This kind of thing happens from time to time. If you've ever read any of Gene Logsdon's books, you'd be planting later than usual which is what he recommends.

I've planted past last frost date and had a wipe out twice now. All you can do is run back out and get more plants. Failure is not an option. You didn't put all that other work into it to let a little weather bring you down.

Actually this puts me in mind of what I can do with all the extra transplants I have. I raised my plants at the high school green house so had tons to choose from. Maybe I should transplant some of the remainder into pots to keep on hand in case of a catastrophe. The worst that would happen is that I have a few plants to sell or give away.

[Heineken]

I can't believe I'm still struggling with my tomatoes. I can grow them in my sleep. But not this year. The nights have been chilly almost throughout May, and the soil hasn't warmed up much and tomatoes hate that.

We are just now finally starting to feel a bit like summer. Very late for central Virginia.

[DoubleD]

I have been gardening for a long time - kind of "been there - done that" on most of the problems that plague that process:

late springs/early freezes
violent storms that kills crops
Wild and domestic animals getting into and eating crops
People getting into and eating/stealing/destroying crops
Swarms of grasshoppers (old homestead in the dryer part of our state)
Army's of slugs (current homesead in the wetter part of our state)
Crop diseases that wipe out the entire planting
Platoons of squash borers and potato beetles
Dogs that tromp through seed beds.... and so much more.

It's life and it happens and those with years of gardening experience under their belt have enough knowledge to actually take actions that will either protect from the above - mitigate the damage - or have a plan b and c to fall back on.

We live 100% off of our garden for vegetables and a large proportion of our fruit needs. It is doable and more than just one "good season". The trick is to keep at least a year's worth of additional food supplies on hand - that you can lean on when things don't go your way. It's also important to not just throw in the towel. So you lost the peppers, tomatoes, and squash plants to a cold snap - okay... YANK them out and plant a BIG crop of shelling peas and bush beans in the area they were in and can the produce. More than you will need this year - but you will have extra set by for that emergency reserve. And in the coming year use the tomatoes and pickles you preserved from last year that was "extra" for reserve... and missing a crop of zuchinni and fresh tomatoes for a year will make the following season MUCH MORE appreciated and you will likely take GREAT PAINS to ensure those plants are extra protected to ensure you get that harvest.

Knowing the vulnerability of certain crops - I can assure you I am doggedly protective of them as a result. My tomatoes and squash plants get the full press of care and protection. I like them too much to have to write them off every other year - so I work to ensure they make it.

Just my two cents on the topic.

[tecumseh]

It has been a cool and wet spring around here too. It looks like the corn crop will take a beating and further drive up the price of food. I'm growing a three sisters garden, and have have renamed it "fort corn" after all the protection I have added to keep things out that prefer to rip out and/or cut it down. I see gardening as a potential bonus and not much more.

I think I can get a better bang for my efforts collecting cattail pollen and acorns and running trot lines for fish and turtles. In a starvation situation, I'll have to settle for carp. There are plenty of those around me in places many can't access on foot or with a motorised boat. I'll lay off the dark meat where most of the toxins are stored. Wild edibles can be collected and hung to dry for later use. In the winter one can make an infusion with the dried plants for access to many vitamins and minerals out of season.

The good thing about acorns is they can be stored in the ground over the winter like the Native Americans did. They would bury a basket full in a swamp. This method allowed them to be leached of tannin and preserved them. Acorns are high in protein, fat and soluble carbohydrates. They have a good vitamin content too. I know a couple of oaks in the middle of a big wood lot nearby that produce acorns 1" in diameter and will fill a few grocery bags. Got to be discreet about that food source though and pick them when no one is around and bury them nearby. I'll use my grain grinder to make flour of them that can be mixed with cattail pollen for a high protein flour. Cattail pollen is high in protein too.

Keep in mind though that wild edibles cannot come anywhere near supporting a large population. Once the masses become good foragers as a result of massive food scarcity, we'll be at another brutal limit with cannibalism resulting. There will still be humans, coyotes, and weeds for awhile.'8O' One good thing about edible "weeds" though is that they are abundant enough to meet many of the vitamin and medicinal needs of most if not all of us IMO. The trick is getting the massive amount of calories and protein needed to keep all this human flesh walking the face of the earth in swarm like numbers. There is a reason why forage based peoples roamed the earth in small numbers. Maybe it is not a good idea to teach others to forage?

Be the first to hunt all the squirrels in your favorite acorn producing woods. They will eat your acorns anyway. Try collect the acorns before others see them. Hopefully, the hungry pass through looking for greener pastures after seeing no squirrels and acorns and leave you with next years bumper crop of mast. I also wonder when most acorn producing oaks will be cut down for firewood?

It was a good party for us though. I could never understand the incredible mass of human flesh rolling around in vehicles on a paved over landscape before I learned of PO. I couldn't comprehend another species thriving with a similar mass to acre ratio. It always seemed a house of cards on this level.

If we don't transition into a garden in every yard and save our fossil fuel for industrial ag, the Air Force, and rail transport; we are fiznucked.

[Ludi]

We're in a drought so things are starting to dry up. Deer have been getting into parts of the garden they didn't in the past, in spite of fencing.
They ate some of my squash plants.

Fortunately I have another smaller garden with more plants, which the deer have not invaded (yet).

Diversity and redundancy is the key to survival, I think.

[PrairieMule]

Ok - I am usually a level headed...cool collected...rationale...deliberate individual, but this pushed me over the lunatic fringe!!!!
A freak winter storm rolled into town...hail, snow, gail force winds...I expect a complete loss from our very young garden.
I purposefully waited till mid-may to be sure mother nature was tamed.
Hell no!!!
Let me tell you something folks...unless you have 5 years of food stored somewhere...you are as good as dead.
Holy hell I am pissed.
(ya'll noticed I did not use one bad word on this little rant...kids read PO ya know!!)

Sorry to hear that Roc, I can relate.

One of the deer hunters left our garden gate open last month. This is a unforgivable sin on a cattle ranch. The cows ate all our vegtables and left manure piles.

At least we won't need to fertilize next year.

[eastbay]

Ok - I am usually a level headed...cool collected...rationale...deliberate individual, but this pushed me over the lunatic fringe!!!!
A freak winter storm rolled into town...hail, snow, gail force winds...I expect a complete loss from our very young garden.
I purposefully waited till mid-may to be sure mother nature was tamed.
Hell no!!!
Let me tell you something folks...unless you have 5 years of food stored somewhere...you are as good as dead.
Holy hell I am pissed.
(ya'll noticed I did not use one bad word on this little rant...kids read PO ya know!!)

Sorry to hear that Roc, I can relate.
One of the deer hunters left our garden gate open last month. This is a unforgivable sin on a cattle ranch. The cows ate all our vegtables and left manure piles.
At least we won't need to fertilize next year.

You composted the idiot deer hunter PM. Excellent. I don't blame you. I hope you spread him around properly and posted a sign warning others they face the same fate.

Rocc, I showed your posting to the kids explaining that what happened to you is one of the really serious risks many face. We've never seen hail larger than bb's and can't imagine what you went through. You obviously aren't the surrendering type so this will only be an annoying speed bump, I'm sure!

[PrairieMule]

Ok - I am usually a level headed...cool collected...rationale...deliberate individual, but this pushed me over the lunatic fringe!!!!
A freak winter storm rolled into town...hail, snow, gail force winds...I expect a complete loss from our very young garden.
I purposefully waited till mid-may to be sure mother nature was tamed.
Hell no!!!
Let me tell you something folks...unless you have 5 years of food stored somewhere...you are as good as dead.
Holy hell I am pissed.
(ya'll noticed I did not use one bad word on this little rant...kids read PO ya know!!)

Sorry to hear that Roc, I can relate.
One of the deer hunters left our garden gate open last month. This is a unforgivable sin on a cattle ranch. The cows ate all our vegtables and left manure piles.
At least we won't need to fertilize next year.

You composted the idiot deer hunter PM. Excellent. I don't blame you. I hope you spread him around properly and posted a sign warning others they face the same fate.

Well we did wait till his check cleared.

(warning to Pops-put up your spit guard now)

BTW-I had no idea cows liked watermelons. Note to future cattlemen: The Fountains of Wayne are dwarfed in comparison to a momma hefer spray her calf with processed watermelon pulp.

[RedStateGreen]

Diversity and redundancy is the key to survival, I think.

I'm thinking this too.

I'm going to put my plants all over, front and back, so if some get killed at least some might survive. Fortunately I get too tired still to get everything out at once so I'm forced to stagger the plantings. I guess there's advantages to every situation.

[mommy22]

This is the kind of experience that we can all learn from. Fortunately, thee are other food sources now, and you won't starve. But you will learn tactics from which to get through future similar situations where there may NOT be a stocked supermarket to turn to.
When we are faced with turmoil of some kind, there is a reason, and if we are smart, we'll take mental notes as we get through it!
Ok...just got back from church.

[Hagakure_Leofman]

i hear some farmers in Myanmar lost some crops to a storm also.

[jdmartin]

I didn't really see any threads on this subject, and I know most people are not thinking about this at all, with summer coming upon us. Nevertheless, I thought it might be a good subject and it's one I have a tremendous interest in, so I'm hoping some of you more experienced gardeners kick in.

I'd love to grow tomatoes indoors in the winter. Anyone ever do this with any luck? I don't expect monster plants, but stuff for salad certainly would be nice.

What other kinds of fruits/vegetables can be grown indoors in a cold weather climate? Pictures, tips, etc?

[Thralen]

If you use a 5 gallon or 10 gallon pot/bucket, you can grow indeterminate tomatoes inside in the winter. You'll need to trellis them and if you don't have a window with good direct sun in the winter, you'll need artificial lighting (I use full daylight style CFL between 5000k and 6500k). I use a home depot 5 gallon bucket and built my trellis into it so that the weight of the bucket keeps the trellis steady. you can frequently get 2-3 years out of a tomato plant this way. Plus there is the added bonus that you can snip and root pieces of it to get a jump start on planting outside in the summer. When you need to replace it, you snip and root your outdoor plants (towards the end of the summer) and use the healthiest of those for your new indoor plant. The process is detailed in mother earth news here:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/2004-10-01/Winter-Tomatoes.aspx

You can also grow peppers the same way, they are technically perennials and can keep going for quite some time. To get a full,fresh salad in the winter is fairly easy. You can grow leaf lettuce (not heading lettuce) inside in this manner:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Grow-It/Growing-Lettuce-Indoors-Small-Space-Gardening.aspx

Radishes can be grown indoors in a small box as well, here is an article on how to do so:
http://www.kiddiegardens.com/growing_radish_in_containers.html

Unfortunately I've had little luck with growing carrots indoors but lettuce, tomatoes, peppers, and radishes ought to make a decent salad for you in the middle of winter. If you have other things you'd like to grow indoors in the winter, google for how to do so and you'll find that many other vegetables can be grown that way as well.

As for fruits, there are quite a few containerized options for fruit trees, from columnar apples to improved meyer lemons and a whole gamut in between. If you keep your house warm and have good winter sun then you can even grow bananas indoors.

Hope that was some help with your question.

Thralen

[gnm]

Check out the book "the four season harvest" by Elliot Coleman. Here is his web site...

http://www.fourseasonfarm.com/

-G

[jdmartin]

Thanks for the posts so far...

How much electricity does it use to keep a grow-lite going all winter for tomatoes et al? Also, what kind of danger am I in for the local law enforcement to use some kind of heat camera on my house and come kicking my door in, shooting my dog and threatening me over some beefsteaks?

[PrestonSturges]

Be prepared for whiteflies, spider mites, scale and other pests that aren't a problem outdoors to show up indoors. And no poinsettias - they are always full of pests.

[Thralen]

Depending on what you choose as your grow light, the electric varies. The commercial grow lights you can find tend to slurp up a lot of juice. On the other hand, you can get by with as little as a 15w CFL bulb, so long as it is the full sunlight version (6500k). I personally have about 12 sq ft of desktop in a southwestern facing window that I use to grow in the winter. I manage to give all the plants on it (and it tends to be full enough that my cats are in danger of knocking plants over) sufficient additional light (in addition to what sun they get in the winter) with a pair of 23w, 6500k CFL (compact fluorescent) bulbs. While they do draw some juice, it is not nearly as much as the regular grow lights would. You can also turn the lights off when the plants are getting regular sun and only use them to extend the plants lighted hours up to about 14 (if the plants start getting leggy or look unwell, then I'd leave the lights on all day). The LED grow lights are supposed to draw less juice but I've heard nasty things about them just not working well for plants.

Thralen