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Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Wed 13 Apr 2016, 08:49:46

If Climate Change gets ugly and it will.

I predict we the cooler "North" will shoot on climate refugees.


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The irony is that we made the south uninhabitable with our pollution.

=> There will be WAR!

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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby GHung » Wed 13 Apr 2016, 09:14:20

It's already happening. We just call it something else.

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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby shortonoil » Wed 13 Apr 2016, 10:15:59

"It's already happening. We just call it something else."

As the oil age comes to its end, and the oil producing states fail, there will be almost no way to stop the influx. Most of the Middle East has 10 times the population it can support if it can't depend on oil for its lively hood. The human suffering that will result will be some of the greatest in history!
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby ennui2 » Wed 13 Apr 2016, 10:37:33

Nobody will call them climate refugees.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Wed 13 Apr 2016, 11:01:26

The thread is bad and the OP should feel bad for creating it.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 13 Apr 2016, 11:03:11

ennui2 wrote:Nobody will call them climate refugees.

Yes some name that dehumanizes them will be found.
I expect that the next thing will be the closing of borders with armed guards and drones that will shoot to kill. That will stop the flow while only actually killing a few hundred. Next the poorest and most over populated will turn on and overrun KSA and or Iran. Those wars will kill millions. The West will probably get drawn into them as well trying to protect a share of the oil supply.
China and or India may join in as well trying to sneak off with the oil while no one is looking.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 13 Apr 2016, 11:08:14

Cog wrote:The thread is bad and the OP should feel bad for creating it.

Bad or not it is a real question that the world will have an answer to before too long. There is no reason not to discuss it realistically without promoting simplistic and radical courses of action.
Of course what seems radical and irresponsible today may become necessity in time.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Simon_R » Thu 14 Apr 2016, 03:25:19

It is just mother natures way of rebalancing.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Lore » Thu 14 Apr 2016, 08:42:56

More like "Children of Men".
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 15 Apr 2016, 11:00:17

In the beginning I agree this will be the sentiment. These are examples of consequences.

And so we have an overpopulated middle east whose native carrying capacity is very small and a few generations of exponential growth due to a resource that will go into decline. Overshadowing this is the religious conflict. These early examples are easy, for you can demonize and name them what you will.

But then in your own country droughts and crop failures and rising sea levels start the process where within your own language group, culture , race and religion we see disenfranchised areas and refugees. Then we have to be more creative in how we dehumanize; oakies was a deragatory word during the depression if you were in California and saw the stream of refugees entering. Read John Steinbeck.

In the beginning in each case the core stresses of human overshoot will be overshadowed by naming the refugees some sub human or non human name, to separate, to make the indifference to the natural genocide more palatable.

Ennui stresses this in his zombie horde scenario. The steepest curve on the back side of the population correction will be the most brutal, it will be where we experience moral drift and moral contraction down to our states, towns villages families. This is a natural defense actually. Those couple of generations will set a horrifying brutal standard that then the followers who plateau will remember in many ways the same way the german generation after WWII had to incorporate and remember what the Nazi's did and remember that there were members within their own families. Witness please the passivity of the germans following WWII.

I present this as evidence to the spiritual renaissance that may happen once we plateau on the far side of the bell curve after our population corrects. But that steep back side is every bit as scary as Ennui and Lore and many others make it out to be.

What's wrong with staring this straight in the face at the same time as you look on the far side of this purge and already recognize the renaissance that can happen. To pull from that future renaissance and already hold that today in where you apply your realistic optimism in projecting forward.

If my daughters die in the purge it will not be for naught, for all of us must go through this and the fickle fate of luck together with savvy survival skills will enable a good chunk of our population to carry on.

Yeah that's my narrative.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 15 Apr 2016, 11:33:43

Nice narrative. If we are still allowed to critique narratives...

The experience of Germans after WWII was one of great hardship, but softened by the Marshall Plan and the promise that it offered of a better future.

Such may not be in evidence much going forward.

Just sayin'.

May probably myopic, pollyannaish hopeum narrative is that, as the dream of never-ending growth and the promise that a rising tide will raise all boats, etc...turns in more and more peoples minds and understandings into the nightmare and lie it is, and as resources shrink, people will become on the one hand less tolerant of enormous wealth disparities, and on the other hand much more willing to share with those less well off, as we all realized we may be the next group to fall into that pool.

It seems to me that there are historical precedents for this, but I don't have time to search them out. It is certainly the case that in short-term crises, people often will give generously and will often make enormous sacrifices to help out those clearly in need. Whether this kind of morality will apply in what will be / is already the 'long emergency' is yet to be seen. We can all do little things to encourage this kind of response, of course, but that doesn't seem to be the dominant mode around here, at least not mostly in earlier times when these things have been discussed.

By the way, snoop, welcome to the fray. Don't let the occasional racist @sshole who strays into these parts make you think that the rest of us...aren't a$$holes, too! :lol: :lol:

(But most of us aren't so blatantly racist about it!)
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Sat 16 Apr 2016, 07:49:32

James Lovelock knows the problem very well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIFRg2skuDI

Look @ 7:05ff

The Father of the Gaia Theory

Yes I am a Gaianer

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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 16 Apr 2016, 08:03:28

Yeah, LoveLOCK, vs LoveJOY. doooh!
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Hawkcreek » Mon 18 Apr 2016, 20:45:17

I think people forget that we have already had genocide against Muslims just a couple of decades ago. It was only 8 or 10 thousand that time, but genocide is a accepted solution in parts of our world right now.
A few people ended up in prison for the Bosnian genocide, and it is already mostly forgotten. Except probably by the Muslims.
I agree, its gonna get ugly.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Tue 19 Apr 2016, 08:22:46

A Interlectual discussion

http://www.amazon.de/Climate-Wars-Fight ... bc?ie=UTF8

Waves of climate refugees. Dozens of failed states. All-out war. From one of the world’s great geopolitical analysts comes a terrifying glimpse of the strategic realities of the near future, when climate change drives the world’s powers towards the cut-throat politics of survival. Prescient and unflinching, Climate Wars will be one of the most important books of the coming years. Read it and find out what we’re heading for.......
***********************************************

April 2016 CO2 @407ppm

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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 25 Apr 2016, 08:32:13

M_B_S wrote:A Interlectual discussion

http://www.amazon.de/Climate-Wars-Fight ... bc?ie=UTF8

Waves of climate refugees. Dozens of failed states. All-out war. From one of the world’s great geopolitical analysts comes a terrifying glimpse of the strategic realities of the near future, when climate change drives the world’s powers towards the cut-throat politics of survival. Prescient and unflinching, Climate Wars will be one of the most important books of the coming years. Read it and find out what we’re heading for.......
***********************************************

April 2016 CO2 @407ppm

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Climate wars sounds like such a cheerful book, how can I restrain myself from running right out to buy it?
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Mon 25 Apr 2016, 09:05:13

Tanada wrote:
M_B_S wrote:A Interlectual discussion

http://www.amazon.de/Climate-Wars-Fight ... bc?ie=UTF8

Waves of climate refugees. Dozens of failed states. All-out war. From one of the world’s great geopolitical analysts comes a terrifying glimpse of the strategic realities of the near future, when climate change drives the world’s powers towards the cut-throat politics of survival. Prescient and unflinching, Climate Wars will be one of the most important books of the coming years. Read it and find out what we’re heading for.......
***********************************************

April 2016 CO2 @407ppm

M_B_S


Climate wars sounds like such a cheerful book, how can I restrain myself from running right out to buy it?


You must not buy the book share it :idea:
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Fri 06 May 2016, 10:55:11

To feed the discussion we have problem in Europe <=Year 2030!

http://www.sciencealert.com/global-warm ... rth-africa

Global warming could trigger a 'climate exodus' from the Middle East and North Africa
Climate refugees.
JOSH HRALA 4 MAY 2016
Facebook Icon2.4k Twitter Icon
As millions of refugees continue to pour into Europe from the Middle East and sub-Saharan Africa to escape wars and oppression, researchers have just announced that the greatest migration from the region is likely still on the horizon. But in the future, instead of seeking refuge from violence, families in the Middle East and Africa might have to flee for a completely different reason: climate change.

According to researchers from the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany and the Cyprus Institute, temperatures in the Middle East and North Africa will soon reach levels too high for human survival.
*************************

We will shoot and must defend our borders or our own food security is in danger. We in Europe cannot feed the billions!

You cannot fool physics minimum is 2000kcal/capita/day or famine and war again in Europe

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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 06 May 2016, 13:42:33

They'll run out of water first!
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Lore » Fri 06 May 2016, 14:07:27

I hear they're all planning on swiming to Ireland!
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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