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Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:44:07

Two can play the asymmetrical warfare game. Just saying.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:10:28

In order to stop it, we need to clearly understand what's actually going on.

We can't just call them "terrorists" and swear to eradicate them, and expect to solve the problem.

We have to admit certain facts:
One, there is no way to eradicate them. They are amorphous and invisible until they strike.

Two, the more we intervene in their countries, the more they recruit globally, even within our own country.
We could turn the sands of the Middle East to glass with our nukes, and the problem would still exist.

Three, Bravado and Bluster on our part just makes the situation worse. It may be emotionally satisfying, but does nothing to solve the problem.

The only solution I can see is to get the hell out of the Middle East and let them fight among themselves. They will soon forget about us, when their immediate enemy is next door.

They are just itching to have their Sunni/Shia war. Let them have it.
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:21:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:14:15

Creating a vacuum that the Russians and Chinese rush in to fill? I think not. If you aren't at the table, you can't play the game.

I know for a fact that Joe McCarthy didn't get rid of all the communists in the State Department.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:24:39

That is the thinking that created the problem in the first place. This isn't a game. We have solved our energy problem for now, we don't need what's left in the Middle East.

I say arm all sides and let them at each other.

Cog, you are an ideological anachronism. Your binary thinking makes everyone not a McCarthyite, a Communist. Sorry but reality is far more diverse and complex than your black and white world.

There is more in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in your philosophy.
Hamlet
Act 1, Scene 5

To most people in the world, McCarthyism was a bad thing. A dark chapter in American History.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 14:23:55

Nicely put, cid. I fear that most of us here are commies and pinkos to our dear cog.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 14:35:22

Not to worry guys. In the camp, you will still get Trump tweets everyday.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 15:18:27

Cid,
Sadly I've come to the same conclusion. Except the part about arming them, unless the planes and tanks we sell come with a USA controlled self destruct button.

Cog,
Your bouncing back and forth trying to keep up with Trumps foreign policy is giving me whiplash. First is was isolationist, now its bomb 'em. Frankly I can't figure out who "them" is. Shite, Sunni, Kurd, Iran, Quarar, everyone in Syria but Isis. I'm still pissed over that baloney "friendly fire" incident that killed some 90 Syrian troops and our UN Ambasador who told the Russians to get over it. I'm convienced Trump has just adopted the Obama/Hillary policy. We might as well have H in office.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 15:24:01

Cog wrote:Two can play the asymmetrical warfare game. Just saying.


Really? Then it would not be asymmetrical would it. But seriously, what is "their" equilivent of the World Trade Centers or an open society? How are you gonna convience some young American kid to infiltrate a bazaar and blow the self up? Or are you talking about drones? Which just make more and more martyrs.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 15:24:59

Cog wrote:Not to worry guys. In the camp, you will still get Trump tweets everyday.


So will you, bunkie.

You have this queer idea of allegiance to the constitution. That will get you into trouble.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 15:39:01

Sometimes the written word doesn't convey what I think it conveys. Regarding asymmetric warfare, I was talking about domestic Islamic terrorism. Lets say some enterprising young jihadist does his thing in the USA. Suddenly his local Imam is found with his head on a stick outside of city hall or simply disappears. The message gets sent.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 15:52:26

Yes, but that also erodes our order of law and also has a negative effect on our culture. It gives them another marter.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 16:58:18

Maybe I have more bullets than they have martyrs. Lets not be rash and give up on this idea too quickly.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 17:11:44

Let's not look forward to it too hungrily.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 17:38:32

Newfie wrote:Let's not look forward to it too hungrily.

Agreed! It will be a sad day if and when we are driven to such actions.
But we can not let them over run us and impose their version of law on those that they don't choose to kill.
When it comes down to kill or be killed they are going to take it hard.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 17:42:39

Ideally it won't come to that. But I understand that it may, likely will.

Then we will deal with that reality as it presents itself. Preparation is wise investment.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 20 Jun 2017, 08:32:35

As Chris Hedges recently pointed out, the "North" mostly doesn't have to 'shoot' the 'South.'

Tens of millions of human beings, especially in the global south, are being herded into the climate furnaces for immolation.


But ultimately, we are all in the 'firing line.'

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/we_ ... s_20170618

Already deaths from heat have increased 7 fold since the '80s iirc.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Paulo1 » Tue 20 Jun 2017, 08:49:20

A standing joke in Canada goes a bit like this:

If Trump doesn't build a northern wall, maybe we should.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby AgentR11 » Tue 20 Jun 2017, 09:09:42

Newfie wrote:Really? Then it would not be asymmetrical would it. But seriously, what is "their" equivalent of the World Trade Centers or an open society?


Newfie, as someone exposed to civil engineering, I'm surprised you don't recognize the target.

This will be evil to even mention, but I'll do it anyway. Dams and bridges. That's their equivalent of our World Trade Center. Most can be destroyed or rendered useless by a single drone payload.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:02:41

dohboi wrote:As Chris Hedges recently pointed out, the "North" mostly doesn't have to 'shoot' the 'South.'

Tens of millions of human beings, especially in the global south, are being herded into the climate furnaces for immolation.


But ultimately, we are all in the 'firing line.'

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/we_ ... s_20170618

Already deaths from heat have increased 7 fold since the '80s iirc.


Perhaps so in all its meaning, but world population growth continues because the death rate is still far below the birth rate.

I think it will take enough deaths to reverse population growth to get people to pay attention. Most people think I am just too cynical, but that is the way I see it.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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