[DesuMaiden]

I was thinking about peak wood because humans are also overwhelming reliant on wood. Without wood, modern civilization will also collapse because there is no substitute for wood.

Think of it this way. In colder climates, like Russia and Canada, when we run out of fossil fuels, we will have to rely on burning wood for maintaining and creating heat during the freezing, cold winter times. Without sufficient fossil fuels, we will need to burn wood for heat. Most of the heat generated during the winter times in cold climate places is from coal, natural gas and nuclear power. But we will eventually run out of those fuel sources, so we will eventually have to go back to relying on wood for fuel and heat.

But this raises the question. Is there enough wood in the world to support such a huge population of people? Canada has over 36 million (nearly 40 million) people, and in the future, they will need to rely on wood for heat. I somehow doubt there will be enough trees to cut down for wood for heating in the future. I believe we might quickly run out of wood, if we are to use wood to substitute for fossil fuels in the future. If there is not enough wood for heating in the cold winter times in cold climate places, that means we will run out of wood for heating. And when that happens, people in cold climates will freeze to death during the winter time.

So this makes me wonder if it is bad idea to live in a cold climate like Canada. I live in Kitchener, Ontario, and the winter is pretty cold with below freezing temperatures and plenty of snow. I don't think it might be a good idea to live in Kitchener anymore because when we run out of wood, we will freeze to death. Without wood, you can't create enough heat to survive in the freezing cold. So maybe I should get a plane ticket, and move over to a tropical place, like Florida or Brazil to survive peak oil. That's because those places are not cold during the winter time, so running out of wood wouldn't be so bad.

Peak wood is also a major issue humanity is facing. We aren't just facing a peak fossil fuel crisis. We are facing a peak everything crisis as Richard Heinberg once said. There are just too many people on this planet using up this planet's finite resources.

[Hawkcreek]

I'm sorry - I couldn't help it. When I saw the title, I immediately thought it was something to do with a Viagra shortage. Since I'm an old guy, that could be important!

Relax and go drink a beer. Life is too short to make it worse by worrying about everything in sight.

[basil_hayden]

1. You've been fed this data before - 6 months of wood supply exists for the current population. Google Nate Hagens.

2. As killjoy, one of my favorite former posters here once pointed out - human life on Earth is plant based. Let's take care of the plants, including trees.

3. By optimizing your domicile, you'll need less heating (i.e., insulation, earthship, etc.).

4. At 25, I was only concerned with 2 things - fast cars and fast women. Still like fast cars.

[DesuMaiden]

I'm sorry - I couldn't help it. When I saw the title, I immediately thought it was something to do with a Viagra shortage. Since I'm an old guy, that could be important!

Relax and go drink a beer. Life is too short to make it worse by worrying about everything in sight.

I'm 25 years old, and I recently realized that the economy of the world will head towards an irreversible collapse within the next 5 years. Industrial civilization is soon going to be doomed. By my 30s, the end of industrial civilization is within sight. I think it should be something everyone should be concerned about because the end is truly near.

We better do something, or else we are all truly doomed. Figuring out where is the best place to live in a post-collapse world is a fundamental question. If cold climates like Canada and Russia will have everyone freeze to death in the future, then I will have to avoid living in those places.

Peak wood is very important because we are also very reliant on wood.

The purpose of this topic is to figure out what we should do in a post collapse world. We need to figure out ASAP because the collapse is just around the corner.

[GHung]

Since decline of civilizations and deforestation are a recurring theme in history, this time will be no different. Deforestation, worldwide, has been underway for centuries, even though many societies have taken steps to protect their forests. As always, location is everything. It all comes down to population density and competition for local resources, and society's ability to utilize said resources. Trees don't harvest themselves, and most folks these days don't have the ability to utilize wood as heat. This, of course, will change to some extent.

The two large trees in the center of the photo are tulip poplars (Liriodendron tulipifera) and reproduce at an amazing rate, almost like weeds. Good for many uses.



In our case, the forest regenerates much faster than our needs could deplete them. Again, location, population, along with efficient structures and passive solar. We have much more deadfall than we need or could utilize, barring a big increase in local population and demand. Further, the several acres I've let go fallow have been growing trees since the moment the cattle were removed. In ten years, dense young forests have sprung up. Many of these trees (tulip poplars mainly) can be utilized by coppicing; my 'Plan B' if we're ever forced to cook with wood. Meanwhile, I'm heading out to our logging road to harvest two large standing dead oaks that will easily get us through the next month or more. We rarely harvest living trees due to availability of natural die-off; again, much more than we would ever utilize.

[KaiserJeep]

Here in California we use 16" diameter Almond trees cut from orchards. (Almond trees need to be replaced every 20-30 years.) Nice hardwood that air dries in 2 years, $125 per cord delivered and stacked.

We also have "Spare the Air" days when all wood/pellet/charcoal burning is banned unless wood is the only heat in a residence - and I have stepped outside my house during a Silicon Valley temperature inversion in Winter and been unable to breathe.

Perhaps what happened in Greece in recent years will be instructive. Oil and gas imports rapidly tapered off when they had a financial crisis, many people switched to wood for both space heat and cooking. Regular firewood prices rose until legitimate wood fuel was no cheaper than gas or oil. Then specimen trees from the time of Homer and Socrates were cut and burnt. Farmers had to hire armed guards to prevent entire rows of olive trees from being harvested overnight. Empty buildings were torn down and the wood was burnt. Unguarded bundles of new lumber and unfinished house frames vanished without a trace. Public forests were clear-cut, and trees disappeared from beside public roads all over the country. Wooden fences disappeared. In about three years, Greece was denuded of available wood.

Edit: You can also tell who has been burning green almond wood instead of seasoned wood. Those would be the people that have their houses tented for termite infestations. Nothing breeds termites like a fruit or nut orchard....

[KaiserJeep]

Last Winter two eucalyptus trees disappeared from our commons area that is maintained by the Homeowners Association. We were waiting on permission to cut these trees from the city, as they had recently started that eucalyptus habit of dropping 6" diameter branches in the wind. About two months after they disappeared, the city gave us permission and claimed to have inspected the trees the week before the postmark on their letter. It would have been more amusing if the firewood thieves had not stolen 150 feet of cedar split rail fencing at the same time.

We replaced the cedar fence with plastic fencing and it annoys me to look at the stuff.

[Pops]

Nice hardwood that air dries in 2 years, $125 per cord delivered and stacked.

Wow, pretty good deal. Sure you aren't buying a cord and getting a rick?

ALMOND SEASONED 2-yrs. 16-18 in. Delvd. Wood Stove Quality 852-9170- ZWARTS ...
read full ad
DRY SEASONED OAK Firewood - 16 inches. $250/cord. Pine Firewood $175/cord - delivered. Call 743-8434 ...
read full ad
SALS FIREWOOD ALMOND FIREWOOD Dry, 16", $280/cord. 386-3684 -or- 358-3697 ...
read full ad
SEASONED OAK $305/ CORD. Half cords also avail. PINE- $210/cord. (209) 588-0857 ...

[Pops]

In the Ozarks elm grows like a weed. It isn't a great heater @ 18MBTU (pine is 13 and oak is 25) and it is hard to split but...
It grows like a weed in that area.

I once had a link, it's still here somewhere, to a chart showing BTUs per year growth or BTUs per acre. One of the winners as I remember was Black Locust.

Osage Orange is of course the hands down winner, a cord has more heat that a ton of coal or 3 barrels of oil!

https://chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm
http://extension.missouri.edu/p/g5450

[GHung]

pstar said: "I'd be willing to bet you are heading out inside the comfy cab of your 4*4, or a least this."

You bet, though the amount of fuel we use to secure a year's worth of wood is small, including saws and log splitter. My goal is somthing like this: http://www.polaris.com/en-us/ranger-utv ... anche-gray

...or this: http://www.ecoeatv.com/ ... solar-charged of course..... but this year we had several dead trees above the house which I split on sight and dragged down hill to the shed in a hand cart. My wife asked me why I haven't taken the bountiful dead wood above our (2500') driveway. I told her that was "easy reserve", AKA: 'low hanging fruit'. Quite a few locust trees up there that will remain standing for years after they die (another fast growing species); fabulous fuel it is:

"Black locust is highly valued as firewood for wood-burning stoves; it burns slowly, with little visible flame or smoke, and has a higher heat content than any other species that grows widely in the Eastern United States, comparable to the heat content of anthracite.[9] It is most easily ignited by insertion into a hot stove with an established coal bed.[citation needed] For best results it should be seasoned like any other hardwood, however black locust is also popular because of its ability to burn even when wet.[10] In fireplaces it can be less satisfactory because knots and beetle damage make the wood prone “spitting” coals for distances of up to several feet.[citation needed] If the black locust is cut, split, and cured while relatively young (within ten years), thus minimizing beetle damage, “spitting” problems are minimal.

It is also planted for firewood because it grows rapidly, is highly resilient in a variety of soils, and it grows back even faster from its stump after harvest by using the existing root system.[11] (see coppicing)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinia_pseudoacacia

One reason I've let some acreage go fallow was to promote black locust growth along with the poplars. Great for fencing as well. A little tough on axes and saws, but splits nicely.

[Newfie]

Deforestation is not just a cold climate problem.

It's an over population problem.

Everything is.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_in_Haiti

[Dybbuk]

What percentage of wood consumption goes to heating homes and how much goes to paper, furniture, construction, etc.? I haven't done any research but I'm guessing that heating homes is a pretty small slice of the pie chart. In a scarcity situation we might do OK just by recycling old furniture, substituting other less aesthetic materials, etc.

[Newfie]

Yeah, no.

Wood scarcity is as old as humanity....look up....
Tall cedars of Lebanon
Japanese royal gardens
Venetian expansion
Etc.

[GHung]

Yeah, Newfie, regarding Haiti and deforestation:



Pretty easy to see the border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic here, even without the line.

[GHung]

Pretty slick, p. Beats the shit out of hauling the old fashioned way, eh? My little diesel Boomer tractor will run on just about anything; diesel, B-100, kerosene, mix of all-of-the-above. I imagine fueling that will be a priority in the future. Quite the fuel sipper, that little tractor. AWD helps a lot on our steep hills. I'm rigging up a winch and snatch block kit to drag timber out of the forest and up steep slopes, just in case. That said, I keep an assortment of manual tools; block-and-tackle, timber jacks, buck saws, etc. to put the grandkids to work if need be. That's how we did it when I was a kid.

[vtsnowedin]

Much of the worlds forests were cut down with hand tools and hauled away with oxen or horses, so the we need oil to cut it argument doesn't hold up. Before WW2 when chain saws were invented the standard on a pulp lumbering operation was a cord a day per man using two man crosscut saws and axes.
Hardwood forest in the north produce about one cord per acre per year on a sustainable basis. The problem becomes that there are just not enough acres to supply the present population. Sure you can heat all the houses in the rural areas surrounded by forest but there isn't enough extra to send to the cities and suburbs to supply them. The trees in the city parks and around the suburban houses will not last more then a year. Then the forests will belong to those that can defend them from thievery.