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WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 26 May 2015, 04:27:53

Go for it. Some dickhead politician here drank a glass back in the 80's, died from leukemia 2 years later.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 26 May 2015, 06:15:00

Again, you have to look at the alternatives. The 2,4,5-T that glyphosate replaced was contaminated with dioxin compounds, making it one of the most dangerous carcinogens ever identified.

I buy and use Roundup for weed control around my small home. Over the last 10 years, the available forms the product comes in are reduced to one, which is a premixed form. You can no longer buy the concentrates that were formerly available, because people were mixing concentrations that were too high for safety, resulting in toxic runoff into the storm sewers. When applied as directed in the correct concentrations, runoff is virtually nil, the glyphosate is consumed in killing the green weeds if it gets the specified 72 hours without rain after application.

It'd be nice if we could do organic farming for all our food. But realistically, yields of Roundup-tolerant corn and soybeans are way beyond those of mechanically-tilled crops, and we burn a lot less fuel growing them, and conserve topsoil with no-till agriculture.

Yes, organic alternatives do exist - but none that produce as much food for so little fuel, with so little loss of topsoil. Even the constant stream of Hispanics over the Southern border can't provide the manual labor to replace glyphosate.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 26 May 2015, 14:18:21

KaiserJeep wrote:You can no longer buy the concentrates that were formerly available, because people were mixing concentrations that were too high for safety, resulting in toxic runoff into the storm sewers.


I can get the Roundup super concentrate in my area. Notice that Roundup requires no special license? Yeah, that's how toxic it isn't.

I bought some Manor / Spotlight for the weeds (Lespedeza striata) that are naturally immune to RoundUp. I wish RoundUp was 1/10 as toxic as people say, because I had to buy other stuff with warnings labels that say the other stuff is pure concentrated death.
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I can get the Roundup super concentrate , but I can't get the nasty chemical poison mole bait or poison peanuts that make phosgene gas (?). I keep some of that mole bait around for times when I might really really want something dead, and I buy that when I'm in FL. I had that outside one time and a squirrel shredded the container and ate the whole thing. :shock:

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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 26 May 2015, 14:20:56

SeaGypsy wrote:Go for it. Some dickhead politician here drank a glass back in the 80's, died from leukemia 2 years later.
When you say that you have to hold a flashlight under your chin to make it scary.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby careinke » Wed 27 May 2015, 00:58:09

KaiserJeep wrote:I buy and use Roundup for weed control around my small home. Over the last 10 years, the available forms the product comes in are reduced to one, which is a premixed form. You can no longer buy the concentrates that were formerly available, because people were mixing concentrations that were too high for safety, resulting in toxic runoff into the storm sewers. When applied as directed in the correct concentrations, runoff is virtually nil, the glyphosate is consumed in killing the green weeds if it gets the specified 72 hours without rain after application.


I'm sorry, but if you feel the need to use Roundup (or any other herbicide) around a small home to control weeds, you have a badly designed property. The few weeds you may have to pull, should come out easily, and be viewed as future added nutrients for your property.

So instead of a good design; you feel a need to spend money to buy a plastic bottle of herbicide, on a regular bases, that you are going to have to individually spray on each weed, rather than just pulling the damn thing out. Sounds a little crazy to me, but if you like spending more time and money when you don't have to, go ahead.

I'd guess your yard also produces little to no food, especially from perennials.

Enjoy it while it lasts.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 27 May 2015, 02:08:12

Obviously none of you fanboys of glyphosate read the booklet MSDS (material safety data sheet) as published & stuck on every commercial supply size bottle of Roundup before Monsanto allowed their patent to expire. Someone here must have one in their shed. Among other things it had a requirement for an exclusion zone to be established for several days, protective clothing etc. Yet who hasn't seen bare armed council workers spraying truck fulls of it on roadsides with no warning or traffic control of any kind? The story the stuff is safe contradicts what can be alluded to by the facts of Monsanto's actions. I'm not going into what the reality actually is, because I am not aware of any non biased worthwhile data, but something is fishy & I'm staying away from the stink as much as possible.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 27 May 2015, 12:07:34

Most of the roundup critics I've seen are simply internet trolls that want people to believe they live in some sort of hand-made organic paradise. On other sites I've seen how Roundup is an excuse to act all smug and patronizing for agoraphobics who never actually leave the house.
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Go check any anti-Roundup site and you will find anti-vaxxer articles. The anti-vaxxers seem to have moved from vaccines to Roundup. In many cases it seems to be the same people.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 27 May 2015, 16:24:26

Straw man.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby Pops » Wed 27 May 2015, 17:00:33

A company doesn't "allow" a patent to expire, it expires after 17 years (or maybe it's now 20) regardless of what they do.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 27 May 2015, 17:05:17

Pops wrote:A company doesn't "allow" a patent to expire, it expires after 17 years (or maybe it's now 20) regardless of what they do.

Yes, drug companies are pretty good at tweaking molecules and the scope of patents to extend their life. I don't think it is nearly as common in other industries.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 27 May 2015, 17:09:55

SeaGypsy wrote:Straw man.

I'm not going to malign anyone here, but the internet is loaded with people who are all outraged about something different every 18 months, scoffing at everyone else, and declaring themselves to be the smartest guy in the room on the subject of this thing that they just heard about and will have totally forgotten in two years.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby Pops » Wed 27 May 2015, 18:06:11

Monsanto bashing started with agent orange and dioxins but I think the problem is they made the trade names too easy to remember, what's hard to remember about "Round Up"?

On the other hand, take neonicitoids like imidacloprid that are nerve agents implicated in killing off bees. The names are not easy to pronounce and since they are licensed to many manufacturers and comes in all sorts of flavors and beneficial sounding trade names (like Merit®, Admire®, AdvantageTM) no one is dominant so who can remember? And besides, the upstanding corporate name Bayer is on the label — don't they make baby aspirin?

I think it was a marketing problem.

http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable- ... d-security
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby pstarr » Wed 27 May 2015, 18:24:49

Pops, Neonicotinoids are a class of neuro-active insecticides chemically similar to nicotine. Kind of natural but still nasty to bees.

Pyrethrins are worse, but an approved organic pesticide sprayed on your wilted greens. They are class of organic compounds normally derived from Chrysanthemum cinerariifolium, otherwise known as chrysanthemums or mums :? .

Aquatic life is extremely susceptible to pyrethrin toxicity, and has been documented in species such as the Lake Trout. Although pyrethrins are quickly metabolized by birds and most mammals, fish and other aquatic invertebrates lack the ability to metabolize these compounds, leading to a toxic accumulation of byproducts.
Could be killing cute froggies? And much more toxic that Roundup.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 27 May 2015, 21:08:56

I can concede I may have been misled on US patent Law but nobody has answered regarding the MSDS booklet? I didn't hear about that on a conspiracy website, I read it several times as it grew up to about 10 years ago when I last had to use it at work. Virtually nobody was or is following the safety instructions as published by the 20 year monopoly holder.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby dissident » Wed 27 May 2015, 21:30:04

SeaGypsy wrote:I can concede I may have been misled on US patent Law but nobody has answered regarding the MSDS booklet? I didn't hear about that on a conspiracy website, I read it several times as it grew up to about 10 years ago when I last had to use it at work. Virtually nobody was or is following the safety instructions as published by the 20 year monopoly holder.


I will second your observations. Roundup treated lawns were cordoned off and a sign placed to keep off for a couple of days at least.

http://www.safelawns.org/blog/2009/06/is-roundup-safe/

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/issues/healt ... icide-ban/
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 27 May 2015, 21:50:34

dissident wrote:
SeaGypsy wrote:I can concede I may have been misled on US patent Law but nobody has answered regarding the MSDS booklet? I didn't hear about that on a conspiracy website, I read it several times as it grew up to about 10 years ago when I last had to use it at work. Virtually nobody was or is following the safety instructions as published by the 20 year monopoly holder.


I will second your observations. Roundup treated lawns were cordoned off and a sign placed to keep off for a couple of days at least.

http://www.safelawns.org/blog/2009/06/is-roundup-safe/

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/issues/healt ... icide-ban/


You would not use Roundup on lawns because there is no roundup ready turf grass being sold.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby vox_mundi » Fri 12 Jun 2015, 15:59:30

German Companies Stop Sales of “Roundup”

According to Swiss supermarkets, German companies have announced halting sales of Monsanto’s glyphosate herbicide.

The registration of glyphosate is currently being re-examined by the EU, because the current authorization of the active ingredient ends in December 2015.

After the WHO report in March had glyphosate classified as "probably carcinogenic,” the herbicide is disappearing from some stores.

However, the Federal Institute for Risk Assessment did not previously share the concerns of the WHO and the International Agency for Research on Cancer.

Slowly some companies are rethinking the glyphosate issue.

As the nature conservation association NABU reported, the company plant Kölle, Knauber, Garden Centre Holland, garden centers Augsburg and Globus Baumarkt have declared in writing that in the future they’ll refrain from selling glyphosate products. In the Toom DIY stores in Germany glyphosate has already been taken off the shelves. At last report, Swiss supermarkets like Migros have discontinued glyphosate.

The company Knauber for example stated:
"Knauber has opted for the complete discontinuation of glyphosate herbicides. Thus Knauber responds to the reclassification of the herbicide's active ingredient by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as "probably carcinogenic.” With immediate effect Knauber takes the precaution to remove all glyphosate weedkillers completely from sale. Knauber has been known in its mission statement to act responsibly towards people and the environment. Stopping the sale of glyphosate on the basis of reclassification is therefore a logical step."

"Glyphosate is the herbicide most widely used in Germany, of which still 51 different applications for the home and garden area are permitted," said NABU. "We hope that finally the other DIY stores like Bauhaus, Hornbach or Obi fulfill their responsibilities and remove glyphosate as quickly as possible from the shelves," said national director Leif Miller.

Just recently, the consumer protection Ministerial Conference of the countries asked the federal government to ban the delivery of glyphosate to individuals for home gardening. NABU calls for a suspension of the authorization for glyphosate and an extensive risk assessment of the active substance.

http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten ... t-verkauf/
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby vox_mundi » Fri 12 Jun 2015, 16:10:26

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 12 Jun 2015, 16:27:27

As long as you apply it in the proper concentration, Round-Up can be used to renew your lawn and topsoil. Step one is what the unfortunate man did above: kill everything, then till the dead organic matter into the soil along with amendments like peat and limestone and low concentrate, slow release fertilizers. Now seed and water for a couple of months using an appropriate grass or grasses for your area.

This is practically the only way to kill crabgrass.
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Re: WHO finds Roundup 'Probable Carcinogen'

Unread postby vox_mundi » Mon 15 Jun 2015, 13:36:10

France bans sale of Monsanto herbicide Roundup in nurseries

French Ecology Minister Segolene Royal announced Sunday a ban on the sale of popular weedkiller Roundup from garden centres, which the UN has warned may be carcinogenic.

... Royal also announced last week that from January 2018 phytosanitary products—used to control plant diseases—would only be available to amateur gardeners "through an intermediary or a certified vendor".

and another reason to look at permaculture ...

Biodiversity reduces human, wildlife diseases and crop pests

With infectious diseases increasing worldwide, the need to understand how and why disease outbreaks occur is becoming increasingly important. Looking for answers, a team of University of South Florida (USF) biologists and colleagues found broad evidence that supports the controversial 'dilution effect hypothesis," which suggests that biodiversity limits outbreaks of disease among humans and wildlife.

"Our study found broad evidence that species-rich communities suffer less infectious disease, and the magnitude of this effect was independent of host density, study design, type and specialization of parasites, and whether the parasite infected humans or wildlife, indicating that dilution was robust across all ecological contexts examined," stated Civitello. "This suggests that maintaining biodiversity in nature could reduce the abundance of many parasites of humans and wildlife," explained Civitello. "Conversely, human-induced declines in biodiversity could contribute to increases in both human and wildlife diseases."
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