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Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 19 Mar 2017, 18:19:18

pstarr wrote:The cornies do blather on. For AdamB sake I must mention the other merely moribund Euro economies Portugal, Italy, Romania, Ukraine, Finland, Croatia, and Switzerland. And there are the big international sickies. Argentina, Japan etc.

Oh, that right. Australia, New Zealand, and Germany economies are just bubbly :) How about that Chinese Miracle?

P, check this out. https://beforethecollapse.com/2017/03/1 ... me-states/
Wonder what our brilliant deniers will say :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 19 Mar 2017, 18:22:20

onlooker wrote:
pstarr wrote:The cornies do blather on. For AdamB sake I must mention the other merely moribund Euro economies Portugal, Italy, Romania, Ukraine, Finland, Croatia, and Switzerland. And there are the big international sickies. Argentina, Japan etc.

Oh, that right. Australia, New Zealand, and Germany economies are just bubbly :) How about that Chinese Miracle?

P, check this out. https://beforethecollapse.com/2017/03/1 ... me-states/
Wonder what our brilliant deniers will say :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's a horrible story. Difficult to read and wrap my mind around it. Is that ETP in all it's inglorious truth :? Is that what the refinery discussion is all about? If gasoline is not exiting the refinery system, then what????? It appears to be an empirical, and not a theoretical sh@tstorm.
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 19 Mar 2017, 18:26:23

pstarr wrote:
onlooker wrote:
pstarr wrote:The cornies do blather on. For AdamB sake I must mention the other merely moribund Euro economies Portugal, Italy, Romania, Ukraine, Finland, Croatia, and Switzerland. And there are the big international sickies. Argentina, Japan etc.

Oh, that right. Australia, New Zealand, and Germany economies are just bubbly :) How about that Chinese Miracle?

P, check this out. https://beforethecollapse.com/2017/03/1 ... me-states/
Wonder what our brilliant deniers will say :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's a horrible story. Difficult to read and wrap my mind around it. Is that ETP in all it's inglorious truth :? Is that what the refinery discussion is all about? If gasoline is not exiting the refinery system, then what????? It appears to be an empirical, and not a theoretical sh@tstorm.

Yep, pretty soon consequences is going to wake a whole lot of people around the world
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby ralfy » Sun 19 Mar 2017, 20:29:04

GregT wrote:Considering that nobody that I am aware of has died from peak oil yet, and climate change continues to kill thousands every year, my vote would be for climate change.


I wonder if we can look at this in light of oil production per capita peaking back in the late 1970s, and the possibility that more oil per capita (and at the same or lower cost) would have meant more advanced health care, better housing, etc., available to most people worldwide.
Last edited by ralfy on Sun 19 Mar 2017, 20:34:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby ralfy » Sun 19 Mar 2017, 20:32:56

pstarr wrote:AdamB, what's latoc? How do pronounce that?

onlooker wrote:I second what Jerider stated. It is ALL part of the reckoning process of our human population in overshoot. Time to pay the piper. In order of peak oil first with its devastating impacts and then climate change quite likely the nail to the coffin

We ignore peak phosphorus, copper, H-3, indium, gallium, germanium, neodymium and dysprosium at our own peril. Did I leave anything out?

yeah probably


LATOC is Life After the Oil Crash, both the site and the forum. I recall RGR participating there, and posts with similar content in other sites by users like Peak Prophet, etc.
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby Squilliam » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 02:42:15

Probably climate change. Oil is far easier to substitute than the value of a stable climate for things like say growing crops/maintaining infrastructure etc.
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby sparky » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 09:55:47

.
Jimmy Carter was a fine man , probably wasted in Washington ,
as an atomic sub officer he had to be interviewed personally by Hyman Rickover .
The more than three quarter mad boss and supremo of all US sub interviewed ALL his sea going officers ,going on his subs
that was not a formality more like a sweat test .
he also went personally on board of each boat on their first dive
after all he had written the book on atomic submarines , was an outstanding engineer and a penny pinching perfectionist
Admiral Rickover was a believer in Peak oil
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 14:29:58

Here's something to consider.

A new study shows that corals around Japan are moving north at incredible speeds.

"One species has even moved an amazing 14 kilometers a year. This could mean that Ocean ecosystems could shift rapidly due to climate-change impacts such as warming seas."
More evidence that the earth is a complex system, that species adapt and move and fill ecological niches with abundant life. The deserts are greening with CO2 fertilization.

Runaway global warming is a peak-oil denialists distraction. It helps folks avoid the real burning issue: we are running out of oil . . . right now. We don't need to wait 50 years for collapse. It has started :shock:
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 14:53:44

pstarr wrote:Runaway global warming is a peak-oil denialists distraction. It helps folks avoid the real burning issue: we are running out of oil . . . right now. We don't need to wait 50 years for collapse. It has started


Wrong and wrong again.

1. Global warming is not a peak-oil denialists distraction. Global warming is a major problem in its own right.

2. We are not "running out of oil . . . right now". Don't you ever read a newspaper or watch the news? Dude---the world is in an oil glut. There is so much oil that OPEC and Russia are cutting their production to try to suppress oil production and boost oil prices again.

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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 15:36:42

onlooker wrote:
pstarr wrote:The cornies do blather on. For AdamB sake I must mention the other merely moribund Euro economies Portugal, Italy, Romania, Ukraine, Finland, Croatia, and Switzerland. And there are the big international sickies. Argentina, Japan etc.

Oh, that right. Australia, New Zealand, and Germany economies are just bubbly :) How about that Chinese Miracle?

P, check this out. https://beforethecollapse.com/2017/03/1 ... me-states/
Wonder what our brilliant deniers will say :lol: :lol: :lol:


Looks like maybe those EV sales are more telling then some have expected. What is hard to believe when I state for the record that the wife doesn't buy gasoline but maybe once every 6 months, and that isn't even a full tank, more like 1/4, maybe 1/2 tank for ALL winter.

You can keep your polluting gasoline sales, and to those aren't using gasoline like the wife, I say yee haw! Save the planet we will, doing away with ICE power 1 car at a time!
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 15:41:20

ralfy wrote:
GregT wrote:Considering that nobody that I am aware of has died from peak oil yet, and climate change continues to kill thousands every year, my vote would be for climate change.


I wonder if we can look at this in light of oil production per capita peaking back in the late 1970s, and the possibility that more oil per capita (and at the same or lower cost) would have meant more advanced health care, better housing, etc., available to most people worldwide.


If people worldwide want better stuff, maybe they should work for it. It isn't America's fault that they took the best from all other places and showed what happens when you mix in balls and brains and cut it loose to make a better life for themselves and their families. We've got people here in America like other parts of the world, but maybe just not as many? Or the exceptionals just pull the averages up?
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 15:41:45

"Don't you ever read a newspaper or watch the news? Dude---the world is in an oil glut. There is so much oil that OPEC and Russia are cutting their production to try to suppress oil production and boost oil prices again."

PLanty, don't you ever read peak oil discussions anymore? The world is in a oil dearth. There is so little oil that OPEC and Russia are both in oil production decline, a consequence of depleting oil fields.

If you think that abiotic oil will replenish those empty fields than I suggest you change jobs Planty. For a supposed geo physicist you have some geology kindergarden to bone up on
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 15:43:47

Adam, on a conciliatory note, I praise what you and your wife are doing.
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 15:44:57

sparky wrote:.
Admiral Rickover was a believer in Peak oil


Which one?
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 15:47:22

onlooker wrote:Adam, on a conciliatory note, I praise what you and your wife are doing.


There is no need, but thank you. It just seems reasonable, commuting without using gasoline. It is an interesting answer, and is happening as part of the transition to better fuels and ways of doing things, so it seemed like something to try. It has been convincing enough that we have decided the right combination might be 1 ICE car and something like the Bolt to do all the normal around town duties, all of them, not just the close in commuting and grocery getting.
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 15:48:36

onlooker wrote:Adam, on a conciliatory note, I praise what you and your wife are doing.

Hey, I have 5 kilowatts of PV on my roof and I bike to work. I'm better than AdamB. But I am certainly no stupid techtopean to believe that will make a bit of difference in the face of global industrial collapse. Who's going to replace the charge controller when it burns out? PV and EV is mostly a white middle-class American pretension.

Don't I get conciliation for putting up with AdamB?
Last edited by pstarr on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 15:56:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 15:50:49

pstarr wrote:
onlooker wrote:Adam, on a conciliatory note, I praise what you and your wife are doing.

Hey, I have 5 kilowatts of PV on my roof and I bike to work. I'm better than AdamB. But I am certainly no stupid techtopean to believe that will make a bit of difference in the face of global industrial collapse. Who's going to the charge controller when it burns out? PV and EV is mostly a white middle-class American pretension.

Don't I get conciliation for putting up with AdamB?

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 15:58:29

pstarr wrote:
onlooker wrote:Adam, on a conciliatory note, I praise what you and your wife are doing.

Hey, I have 5 kilowatts of PV on my roof and I bike to work.


Well then you should get a gold star...unless that work is the clear cutting of trees or creating photo ops based on declaring victory over dead sea mammals, in which case you should quit immediately and stop being part of the problem, and become part of the solution.

pstarr wrote: I'm better than AdamB.


Not until you advance your education beyond the Stone Instructional Complex you aren't.

pstarr wrote:But I am certainly no stupid techtopean to believe that will make a bit of difference in the face of global industrial collapse.


Good thing that ain't here yet, and didn't happen after the peak oil a decade ago you claim happened. Or all those other times folks were hoping for it either.
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 16:20:36

AdamB wrote:
pstarr wrote:
onlooker wrote:Adam, on a conciliatory note, I praise what you and your wife are doing.

Hey, I have 5 kilowatts of PV on my roof and I bike to work.


Well then you should get a gold star...unless that work is the clear cutting of trees or creating photo ops based on declaring victory over dead sea mammals, in which case you should quit immediately and stop being part of the problem, and become part of the solution.

That's called sleaze. You are a jerk.

For the lurkers: the dead sea lion photograph (to which AdamB refers) was from our biological survey, an effort to create a baseline mortality rate in the North Pacific. Per the timber: I selectively harvested 3rd growth redwood timber on my property to reduce forest crowding and for my siding, chicken coop and shed

AdamB, you need to report your own posts to the admin. You are losing it and need help :(
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Re: Which is the bigger problem, climate change or peak oil?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 18:41:25

Counterpoint:

- The world is warming, either from natural, or manmade reasons, or both.
- If we caused it, we are already past peak, and it's TOO LATE to change or mitigate the impact of burning FF's.
- So quit your <insert deity name here>-damned sniveling about carbon emissions.
- Plan to survive. If that means moving N and doubling up on the A/C, planting vegetables and owning chickens, do it.
- Make a plan to be comfortable, with enough time to remain a participating PO.com member, without grid power or a fuel-burning vehicle.
- Any questions?
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