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When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 15 Dec 2016, 21:19:38

There are, or were, a lot more species than that.

http://www.audubon.org/news/thirty-perc ... ss-seasons
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 15 Dec 2016, 21:52:19

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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 01:53:12

Newfie wrote:There are, or were, a lot more species than that.

http://www.audubon.org/news/thirty-perc ... ss-seasons

I know that but the only one that is reduced here are barn swallows because I don't have any barns today and perhaps some types that live in open pasture land that has now reverted to forest.
Also I have wild turkeys now where none existed before 1980 and they maybe competing with other types.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 07:34:35

dohboi wrote:And don't forget amphibians.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2016/12 ... -playlist/

That is disturbing and what is causing there decline needs to be understood. As the trees are still there why aren't the tree frogs?
Locally here the wetland I was working in was well stocked with all the local amphibians and reptiles. The frogs biggest worries were the ducks and the snapping turtle.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 07:39:50

What were you doing in the swamp?
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 09:30:54

Newfie wrote:What were you doing in the swamp?

It was really just a wide roadside ditch and we were adding a left turn lane to a ball park so had to push the ditch over some. A Snapping turtle the size of a turkey platter was not amused.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 09:40:14

There you go, a small bit of habitat destruction.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 09:47:23

Newfie wrote:There you go, a small bit of habitat destruction.

Balanced by habitat protection elsewhere on the property. The permits took over a year to process.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 11:59:21

so there you have it...vt boldly wiping out habitat for species he refuses to see as in danger. :lol: :lol: 8O :twisted:
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby C8 » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 16:42:27

News flash- animals are always becoming extinct- its called natural selection. The animals that ARE getting wiped out at unusually high rates are due to human habitat expansion- especially in poorer regions of the world. These animals and plants are being replaced by others- its not like all species go on strike and don't take another species place out of solidarity. Nature abhors a vacuum. So we have just as many plants and animals as before- but in differing proportions and in new areas. Doesn't sound like "die off" to me- just natural selection with new winners.

In any case I was referring to human die-off. Something ignored by many doomers is that technology is getting better at saving lives. With early warning detection systems of weather, improved rescue methods and better medical care.

Look up natural disasters from history- they killed tons more people than the same event would kill today.

So all that animal "die off" is really natural selection- and human die-off is nowhere to be found.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby ralfy » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 17:39:04

C8 wrote:News flash- animals are always becoming extinct- its called natural selection. The animals that ARE getting wiped out at unusually high rates are due to human habitat expansion- especially in poorer regions of the world. These animals and plants are being replaced by others- its not like all species go on strike and don't take another species place out of solidarity. Nature abhors a vacuum. So we have just as many plants and animals as before- but in differing proportions and in new areas. Doesn't sound like "die off" to me- just natural selection with new winners.

In any case I was referring to human die-off. Something ignored by many doomers is that technology is getting better at saving lives. With early warning detection systems of weather, improved rescue methods and better medical care.

Look up natural disasters from history- they killed tons more people than the same event would kill today.

So all that animal "die off" is really natural selection- and human die-off is nowhere to be found.


That's not natural selection.

Also, if you want to find out how animal die-offs, pollution, and peak oil can lead to more humans dying and suffering, then you will have to go to previous pages and other threads to read various reports linked. One example is mentioned here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... g-collapse
http://sites.google.com/site/peakoilreports/
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 18:35:31

vtsnowedin wrote:
Newfie wrote:There you go, a small bit of habitat destruction.

Balanced by habitat protection elsewhere on the property. The permits took over a year to process.


A few years ago I talked to an environmental sub consultant and asked how effective those habitat rebuilding projects were. They said about 30%.

But you said "protection". So I'm assuming you mean that they are keeping some existing habitat from future destruction. If so is that not still a net reduction in habitat?
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 18:36:43

dohboi wrote:so there you have it...vt boldly wiping out habitat for species he refuses to see as in danger. :lol: :lol: 8O :twisted:

Lets get real here. This is a roadside ditch that was not a wetland before humans made it and did a poor job of making it drain. It has existed sense it was initially constructed about 1940. It dries up every summer and those species that have moved into it have to move down stream or die. The amount of money spent on regulating and protecting this "prime wetland" is ridiculous and a total waste of taxpayer dollars. That those in charge of protecting wetlands and their inhabitants can't tell the difference between a real wetland or marsh and a man made roadside ditch is an embarrassment that undercuts public opinion and jeopardizes the protection of real viable wetlands.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 18:44:21

Newfie wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Newfie wrote:There you go, a small bit of habitat destruction.

Balanced by habitat protection elsewhere on the property. The permits took over a year to process.


A few years ago I talked to an environmental sub consultant and asked how effective those habitat rebuilding projects were. They said about 30%.

But you said "protection". So I'm assuming you mean that they are keeping some existing habitat from future destruction. If so is that not still a net reduction in habitat?

30 Percent might be a bit optimistic as the remediation projects are often designed and supervised by those that can't tell the difference between a ditch and a swamp.
They settle for protecting say 10,000 square feet of wetlands that have some truly unique flora and fauna by letting 1000 square feet of old ditch with it's cat tails and frogs getting filled in.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 18:47:51

OK, I hear that argument. I understand. Been there, done that.

But lets get back to the central point here. Are you trying to argue there is no danger in species being lost? I see you one her post on barn swallows, etc. there are bit of NE that are reforesting, true. But the world is a lot bigger than your backyard. Ever fly across the country or drive to say Chicago? So much of the old forest left in the flat bits.

Too many back and forth posts, I've lost the thread of the thread.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 19:01:22

Newfie wrote:OK, I hear that argument. I understand. Been there, done that.

But lets get back to the central point here. Are you trying to argue there is no danger in species being lost? I see you one her post on barn swallows, etc. there are bit of NE that are reforesting, true. But the world is a lot bigger than your backyard. Ever fly across the country or drive to say Chicago? So much of the old forest left in the flat bits.

Too many back and forth posts, I've lost the thread of the thread.

Yah I get that too, usually late at night with a full ration of beer.
There is certainly species being lost from human activity but the main driver of that is human over population and the only cure for that cannot be contemplated.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby kiwichick » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 19:17:04

re human overpopulation.......the answer seems to be education and freely available contraception.....where young women have a equal opportunity to participate in education they usually decide to delay having their first child ....and to limit the number of children they have in total....providing access to contraception is adequate
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 20:46:48

kiwichick wrote:re human overpopulation.......the answer seems to be education and freely available contraception.....where young women have a equal opportunity to participate in education they usually decide to delay having their first child ....and to limit the number of children they have in total....providing access to contraception is adequate

A good thought but not the reality in those countries with the highest birth rates. There women are still property and have zero say about when they are married or have children.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby kiwichick » Sat 17 Dec 2016, 10:41:25

@ v ....true enough....I didn't say it was easy.....but it is the only ethical way in my opinion

I also believe the continuing population growth could be reduced quicker if the major religious bodies gave people permission to put the preservation of our planet first....working towards becoming more sustainable and less destructive would surely be agreeable in the eyes of an all powerful omnipresent being.........
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 17 Dec 2016, 12:26:00

kiwichick wrote:@ v ....true enough....I didn't say it was easy.....but it is the only ethical way in my opinion

I also believe the continuing population growth could be reduced quicker if the major religious bodies gave people permission to put the preservation of our planet first....working towards becoming more sustainable and less destructive would surely be agreeable in the eyes of an all powerful omnipresent being.........

Instead we will get calls to wage Jihad against the Great Satin.
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