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What time tomorrow does the world end?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: What time tomorrow does the world end?

Unread postby ennui2 » Mon 14 Jan 2013, 23:49:22

VM, you don't even believe in evolution. How do you expect us to take you seriously? And you never ever get to the punch-line. You know, it's kind of comforting popping my head in here every now and then. The same old flora and fauna with the same old tired rhetoric. At least I know what to expect each time, although it does get stale pretty fast.
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Re: What time tomorrow does the world end?

Unread postby Beery1 » Tue 15 Jan 2013, 10:03:04

vision-master wrote:How about pre-Inca?


Doesn't matter. With a stone quarry, harder stone tools, logs, and the labor to do it, any idiot can get a wall like that built 500, 1,000 or 20,000 years ago. All it takes is a group of Homo Sapiens with the will to do it. It doesn't take space aliens.

Anyway, space aliens would, I hope, build a prettier-looking wall and longer-lasting buildings. But I seriously doubt they would build a space program with the intent of building some architecture in South America. I mean what sort of ludicrous goal is that?

Kang: "Hey Kodos, I've got an awesome idea: let's go to Earth and build a cunningly designed wall out of Earth rock so that future Earthings can marvel at it!"

Kodos: "So let me get this straight, Kang: you want us to transport specialized rock-cutting equipment and heavy lifting machines tens of TRILLIONS of Earth miles, land on Earth and start building monuments made out of rock. Then we just fly away?"

Kang: "Yeah, it'll be great! We'll build it on that triangle-shaped continent - the one that's attached to the kinda bowl-shaped one. And we can't use only the straight-cutting tools - we also need the ones that do those neat rounded edges and the ones that make the rocks fit together precisely. It'll be classic!"

Kodos: "Kang, you are such a fricken dumbass!"

Did we go to the moon to build a fricken church or a skyscraper? No, of course not, because our space program is not run by morons. And space aliens wouldn't be that stupid either.

Your problem is that you don't understand Occam's Razor.
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Re: What time tomorrow does the world end?

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 15 Jan 2013, 15:46:21

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Re: What time tomorrow does the world end?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 15 Jan 2013, 17:20:39

Image
Circa 50AD, glass, Roman.
The Portland vase is the most fussed over glass object in history, but nobody suggests it was made by aliens:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Vase
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Re: What time tomorrow does the world end?

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 15 Jan 2013, 18:39:48

Correct, could have been by humans, humans who were more advanced than we are today....

What can we say about the builders?


•They had tube drills - drill bits and the machinery to hold them steady and apply rotational torque.

•They had saws that would cut granite with ease and precision.

•They had the ability to sculpt the hardest of rocks.
•They were accomplished at finishing granite in situ - after a block had been placed in a wall or on the surface of a pyramid.

•They had the ability to cut, level and polish granite to a sophisticated degree of flatness.

•They had lathes that would turn and polish granite, schist, basalt, etc (in ways we have not duplicated).

•They had the means to cut extremely accurate parallel limestone joints with remarkable flatness over large surface areas - 35 sq.ft.or more, and apparently had mastered the technique before beginning the casing of the Great Pyramid at Giza.

•They had the knowledge and technology to consistently lift, exactly maneuver and delicately place enormous weights of stone.

•They had the means and motivation to quarry and move millions of stone blocks.

•They had the administrative skill and wealth to organize enormous multi-generational public works and all that they require:

◦ very long term planning and project continuity
◦ the commitment of many generations of craftsmen: from youthful apprenticeship through retirement from the workforce.
◦ the commitment of the entire family related to the craftsmen - these projects were long term and the workers must have lived nearby as part of a sizable 'pyramid construction town'
◦ many generations of capable personnel: from leadership through executive designers to journeymen masters, craftsmen, labourers and support staff - tens of thousands of people training for years, and working together as a cohesive workforce for many decades. The pyramid builders of ancient Egypt seemed to have achieved the implementation of the largest, most ambitious and most long term engineering and construction program in the history of mankind.

These massive projects would include all facets of civil engineering, architecture, surveying, multilevel and multifaceted personnel management, physical infrastructure, materials management, etc. Initially, they would have to have been preceded by the appearance of a leadership so effective, that the undertaking of such immense programs and all the sacrifices they entailed, would have been possible to initiate.


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Re: What time tomorrow does the world end?

Unread postby Beery1 » Wed 16 Jan 2013, 11:07:02

vision-master wrote:Granite.....


So?

I don't care if there's a vase made of diamond somewhere. Unless it's an unknown rock harder than anything we've ever known, it can be made by humans. All you need is a similarly hard material to use as a tool. With harder objects, all it means is that you wear out your tools faster. Diamond is used today to cut diamonds.

Granite is typically composed of quartz (Mohs-7), potassium feldspar (Mohs-6), and biotite and muscovite micas (Mohs-2.0-2.5). The ancient Egyptians most likely used corundrum or diamond to cut granite. The fact that we don't know what the ancient Egyptians used as tools does not force rational people to conclude that ancient space aliens did it. It is far far more likely that the ancient Egyptians had an Earth-based trading source, possibly India, where diamonds have been known for 6,000 years. That enabled them to get hard minerals that allowed them to cut all manner of stones.
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Re: What time tomorrow does the world end?

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 16 Jan 2013, 18:20:18

The cracked and unfinished obelisk at Aswan, estimated to weigh close to 1,200 tons, at 137 feet, or 42 meters length. (24,000,000 lbs)........ :)

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Mysterious Origins Of Man - Forbidden Archeology
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