Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

What does your car really cost you?

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 08 Feb 2017, 17:53:54

MD wrote:
SeaGypsy wrote:Downshifting moves wear from cheap brake pads to expensive clutch. False economy.

wrong. it's an automatic. heat transfer to the hydraulics. works great as long as you aren't stupid about it. looking ahead and measuring distance makes all the difference.
sometimes the eager racers behind me get pissed off, but I don't give a rat's ass about them. I am just protecting my investment like all good conservationists do.

"get out of my way you old f@ck!"

nope. pass me when you can, and eat my exhaust until you do.



Depends what kind of auto. Some GM gearboxes for instance descent control by auto downshifts will cause plate friction & can wear them out really quickly. I did assume you were talking manual. I would nwver buy an automatic car aa generally the gearbox goes about 200-250 thousand kms, in a manual i can get near double that before needing a new clutch, never needed to replace a gearbox.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9284
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 08 Feb 2017, 18:18:48

Shaved Monkey wrote:Moral of the story is
I spend nearly 10X more on just having a car than I do on oil.

This is why I don't have an electric car


Electric cars only came about because of the forever climbing fuel costs that were supposed to follow peak oil. And then didn't. In the meantime, the wife hasn't spent much of anything on OpX for her electric travels around town. Set of tires I believe over a couple years now, but that is it. Maybe I put an air filter in it a year back? Oil changes came with the car (its got a 20K oil change interval), but she is pleased with the torque, and doing her part in the transition to better power for personal transport.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 08 Feb 2017, 18:25:07

Tanada wrote:My car costs me little enough to make it worth having, which is the answer that actually matters.


You got that right. But then there are the cars worth having, for reasons that have nothing to do with how little they cost. Bad habit, hobbies involving the furious combustion of liquid fuels, but until one peak oil or another raises the costs out of reach, it beats work or being a couch potato.

Image
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby sparky » Wed 08 Feb 2017, 18:58:01

.
" What does you car really cost you ? "
I'm not sure but I know what not having one cost me

went to work riding a bicycle , not for being good ... I had my license suspended :twisted:

after six months of risking my life on the road ,
riding in the rain and cold in the small hours of the morning.
sweating all my body water climbing hills in the Australian sun
missing out on trips because of the distance

I sat back in the driver seat ,turned the ignition and gave thanks to the Lord for inventing the car
User avatar
sparky
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3587
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Sydney , OZ

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Wed 08 Feb 2017, 21:26:54

I drove 3 hours to and from my shopping trip with no air con,window down,windy, noisy ,smelly, hot and sticky that was bad enough.
#1stworldproblems
Ready to turn Zombies into WWOOFers
User avatar
Shaved Monkey
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2486
Joined: Wed 30 Mar 2011, 01:43:28

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Wed 08 Feb 2017, 21:46:34

Shaved Monkey wrote:I drove 3 hours to and from my shopping trip with no air con,window down,windy, noisy ,smelly, hot and sticky that was bad enough.
#1stworldproblems


Air conditioning in Canada is free right now!
"new housing construction" is spelled h-a-b-i-t-a-t d-e-s-t-r-u-c-t-i-o-n.
yellowcanoe
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:42:27
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 11 Feb 2017, 13:42:53

I did an ac compressor swap out on the car I am driving right now. I bought it from an auction house. Soon thereafter it stopped blowing cold air. It was winter, so I didn't do anything about it. When summer came I consulted the local auto parts stores for a new compressor. They all wanted upwards of $400. Amazon had one for a little over $200. I considered doing the refrigerant myself, but I would have needed to invest in some equipment. Unless I was going to start up a back page ad to charge people to do their coolant jobs I wasn't going to spend that kind of money on tools. I decided I would have the coolant done at a shop after I changed the compressor myself. Then I asked the guy at the shop how much to do the coolant and the compressor swap. As long as I purchased the coolant and a few other things the price was still way below the $400, all told, I would have spent just for the compressor from a local auto parts store.

I was really taken aback by the limitations you have to endure under, Shaved Monkey. Where I live I don't have as strict a set of rules. I could have done the tool route and come in at about the same price as the auto parts store wanted just for the part. I saved about $100 doing it this way. And I didn't need to find out how to dispose of the old refrigerant. If I had a bigger place, though, I may have done the tool route because I like to have tools. Going through so many cars, I never know if my next one won't also have this problem. If it did, then I would be leveraged into savings.
User avatar
evilgenius
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3729
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Stopped at the Border.

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 11 Feb 2017, 14:35:23

Cog wrote:I moved from buying new vehicles to buying used. You do inherit some problems doing so but I drive very little nowadays since I retired. I keep the pickup truck to haul some thing around in but I don't absolutely need it.

Cog, you've hit on a major savings to potentially be had (buying used).
Consumer Reports has said that buying a car at about 3 years old and keeping it to about 10 years old can be optimal, cost wise. As cars have gotten better, that 10 years can likely often be extended with reasonable reliability.

Naturally for people with a one car household, buying someone elses reliability problems is a risk. While I was working (often 80 hours a week, often late at night, and living/working on the bad side of town), having a car break down without warning wasn't something I wanted.

So a new source for used cars I hadn't considered in the past was cars coming off lease. Sometimes such cars can be had with fairly low miles, 3ish years old, little more wrong than imperfect paint and a few interior scuffs, checked out by an honest mechanic for abuse -- for roughly HALF what a new car would cost. Today, I'd be willing to take a chance on such a car to save, say, $12,000 on the price of a car if buying a brand with solid (but not very top, see below) reliability reputations.

OTOH, models with great reliability reputations may not shed much value at all. When I recently bought a Camry, I looked at certified used Camry's. They wanted like 75% of the cost of a new one for one with over 50,000 miles and 5 years old. For that money, I'd rather just buy a new car and maintain it properly.

One area this can be really nice is for used luxury or "near luxury". Many people apparently want to be "seen" in their luxury car. So they buy or lease them new, preen for a few years, and then repeat the cycle. Some really nice deals can be had as far as deep discounts for such cars that have sat on a dealer's lot for awhile. Certified 3 year old off-lease Pre-owned with great warranties, low miles, and (from what I could see) excellent conditon - for a price well below the average price of a typical new car. Unfortunately, I just couldn't hack how inefficient such cars often are (mpg), even though they can be a blast to drive. A 2013 AWD Infiniti G37 would be a great example. Fun car with a NA V6 but like 17 mpg in the city.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 11 Feb 2017, 14:54:35

Tanada wrote:My car costs me little enough to make it worth having, which is the answer that actually matters.

And that's a great point. I remember being in high school and having my one teacher with a hippie bent state that cars "cost people too much" and that if people knew what they cost them, they wouldn't drive them.

So I did the math (using estimates for maintenance). Then I thought about the danger, inconvenience, and time I'd spend walking everywhere. And concluded that efficient, reliable cars were a great bargain (which as you say, is probably why 1st world society is so dependent on them).

Buying and keeping a new efficient, reliable Toyota for about 12 years, keeping up with the needed maintenance (with a shop I trusted doing all the work), and forgoing much of the "gingerbread" (i.e. fancy options) that can drive the cost of a new car way up has ended up costing me about $11 a day during the last two decades I worked and drove about 9000 miles a year. When I figure my salary probably averaged something close to $40 an hour during that time, I would have been willing to pay twice that if I'd had to, without even thinking much about it. Once a car started having an inconvenient (as far as frequency or cost) amount of repairs, I tended to give it to a friend who badly needed it -- so I didn't put up with "bad" cars, so no sacrifice there.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 11 Feb 2017, 15:11:49

SeaGypsy wrote:Downshifting moves wear from cheap brake pads to expensive clutch. False economy.

Dumb question. (I'm a symbol guy, not a mechanical guy, so I'm largely clueless about mechanical things, especially complex ones).

Many newer cars now have paddle shifters.

To me, paddle shifters seem kind of silly in a non-sporty car, UNLESS you're trying to get more efficiency from the car.

So for example, my new Camry SE with automatic transmission and the Inline 4 cylinder engine has paddle shifters. (I didn't even know that until the salesman pointed it out). I'd picked the SE over the LE for the firmer ride, better handling, and having the aluminum wheels included.

So I thought about WHY, since performance wise the I4 Camry is competent (compared to my former Corolla, especially at lower speeds) but NOT fast or exciting at all.

Two things occured to me:

1). If I want to pass and want a lower gear, I don't have to mash on the gas to get the car to downshift. I can just tap on the downshift paddle, and then pass, and then tap on the upshift paddle. Should save a little gas (I think -- I haven't tested that, as I don't pass that often).

2). Downshifting to save gas via engine breaking. Similar concept to the regen braking mode in an electric -- not as good but the same basic idea.

Now, I know that for manual transmission that things like clutches wear out over time and they're expensive. But in my experience, if a car isn't abused or driven, say, over 200,000 miles -- then the modern automatic transmissions (aside from CVT's which are hotly debated) are very reliable.

So if I plan to drive my car, say, 50,000 or even 80,000 miles, would using engine braking now and again on country roads tend to be hard enough on the 6 speed automatic transmission to be a concern? (Any meaningful chance of having to rebuild a transmission to save a little gasoline is insane, IMO).

Note: I'm not talking about real aggressive quick multi-gear downshift engine braking -- I'm talking about, say, using 3000 RPM's instead of the 1700ish highway speed RPM's to assist in braking a bit.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 12 Feb 2017, 06:03:16

Brake pads are dirt cheap by comparison to clutches, either are cheaper than automatics when talking repairs. Every gear change a friction point occurs, involving wear (sorry but MD doesn't know what he is talking about). Autos also don't like being in one gear for a long time, mainly if driving very long distances in top gear can cause another set of problems. Paddle shifts are pleasant to drive, anything but to repair, think about 4+ times the price of a replacement gearbox. For efficiency in maintenance terms the cheapest is a carefully driven manual with overdrive. By careful i mean no high rev clutch outs & use brakes to stop, not gears.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9284
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby dissident » Sun 12 Feb 2017, 11:24:13

As pointed out, fuel costs are small compared to all the other costs. I am always tempted to go for hybrid to replace my car but then see a marketing driven $8,000 markup (e.g. Toyota RAV4) (the f*ckers do not offer the hybrid in the base model option but try to rape your wallet under the pretext that you will saving money). There is no way in Hell that I could save $8,000 in fuel costs over the life of the car (assuming a relatively stable range of gasoline prices which is not that hard to achieve in Canada because of rather high gasoline taxes). If there some sort of fuel supply constriction the hybrid car becomes too expensive to use anyway so the marginal fuel savings (i.e. the hybrid does not consume 5-10 time less fuel) are not going to help me.

In terms of what costs I consider: a big one is the depreciation of the car which per year = total purchase price / total number of years of intended use. Cars are disposable items that cost a lot of money. Then we have insurance and repair costs and the cost of fuel. Insurance is a another racket. In Canada, if you leave a province for 2 years your driving record disappears. In the case of Ontario this means that you could have left with an annual $1600 bill and come back to a $3500 yearly bill, which drops but still amounts to highway robbery. In Quebec there is no-fault insurance and the costs are cheap (less than $1000 per year).

So a crude estimate for a non-hybrid inline 4 engine $34,000 brand new car which is supposed to be used for 15 years:

Yearly cost = $2300 (depreciation) + $1700 (insurance; if lucky) + $1000 (gasoline) = $5000

Assuming a hybrid version saves 50% in fuel (it actually saves significantly less) it would take 16 years to save $8000. So there is zero incentive to buy a hybrid all thanks to the gouging by the manufacturer. A moderate increase in fuel price shortens the period to recoup the $8000 premium and makes the choice a bit easier. But at the end of the day the expense is over $75000 which is flushed down the toilet.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6458
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 12 Feb 2017, 20:28:02

Using basic economic calculations to determine which car to buy ignores why Americans have so many cars. It isn't because they are economic decisions, but decisions related to more emotional reactions.

Cars with brakes that feel like stepping on a pile of scrambled eggs, steering that wanders off center because it does, tires with high sidewalls, all preclude using an automobile for what it can deliver in terms of feel, every morning commuting down the canyon on the way to work.

The last thing you worry about when driving to drive, for the visceral feeling it provides, is what penny or two per mile more it might cost you.

Image
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby dissident » Mon 13 Feb 2017, 10:36:29

That is the commercial myth. Most people spend their commute time in traffic jams and not winding, car-free country roads where they can ignore the speed limit because there are no cops. They may buy on that basis (just like the saps that are influenced to buy beer because the commercials have scantily clad females) but it is the economics that affects their pocketbook and ultimately their state of mind.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6458
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 13 Feb 2017, 12:45:23

dissident wrote:That is the commercial myth.


Might be a myth to you. But the Miata sporting decent rubber on the Dragon isn't a Camry, and even a driver of average capability understands that after flinging it into the first of 300+ corners. No myth here at all, the Camry ends up crashed alongside the road, at speeds that the Miata finds nothing but mildly entertaining. Try it sometime, and after crashing the Camry, talk about the "myth".

dissident wrote: Most people spend their commute time in traffic jams and not winding, car-free country roads where they can ignore the speed limit because there are no cops.


Most people wouldn't know what to do with a Miata in a canyon on good rubber. So they don't even know what they are missing when it comes to the visceral use of an automobile. Let them drive a Yugo, they deserve it. I understand that advertising is designed to make them feel like a hero, to get them to purchase more auto than they need. Proving only that PT Barnum was right.

For those "use" a car, rather than buy 2, you buy one that does both jobs. And pay more for it, because being the cheapest is usually mutually exclusive with the proper use of an automobile.

dissident wrote:
They may buy on that basis (just like the saps that are influenced to buy beer because the commercials have scantily clad females) but it is the economics that affects their pocketbook and ultimately their state of mind.


Economics are a constraint, it is only a state of mind among those who don't have enough of one to even understand the differences we are discussing.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 13 Feb 2017, 16:18:56

AdamB wrote:
dissident wrote:That is the commercial myth.


Might be a myth to you. But the Miata sporting decent rubber on the Dragon isn't a Camry, and even a driver of average capability understands that after flinging it into the first of 300+ corners. No myth here at all, the Camry ends up crashed alongside the road, at speeds that the Miata finds nothing but mildly entertaining. Try it sometime, and after crashing the Camry, talk about the "myth".

dissident wrote: Most people spend their commute time in traffic jams and not winding, car-free country roads where they can ignore the speed limit because there are no cops.


Most people wouldn't know what to do with a Miata in a canyon on good rubber. So they don't even know what they are missing when it comes to the visceral use of an automobile. Let them drive a Yugo, they deserve it. I understand that advertising is designed to make them feel like a hero, to get them to purchase more auto than they need. Proving only that PT Barnum was right.

I don't understand the need for debate here. You two are talking about two COMPLETELY different things. Dissident is right about the "daily driver" cost and mentality. Which, by the way, is why a Camry is so popular -- for the performance of a commute or hauling around the family for sedate driving, it's perfectly adequate, AND it excels in terms of durability and reliability. So WITHIN THE SPHERE OF A DAILY DRIVER, Dissident is exactly right.

So yeah Adam, for those able to afford it (two cars, one very sporty) and willing to do the damage to the environment, you are exactly right. But that isn't what Dissident is talking about. I choose to have my performance car experience be "visceral" via Youtube videos. Just as my various art collections are in books. Books or videos aren't as good as the real thing(s), but OTOH, the price is much better and the environmental damage is inconsequential via the books, so a person has to decide what their priorities are.

Oh, and Adam don't assume I don't "understand" what you're talking about re the sporty cars. I was tempted enough to take quite a few test drives in cars like an Infiniti G37x, an absurdly expensive BMW, a fast Lexus, etc. For "fun" like acceleration and handling, yeah, a fast BMW is a COMPLETELY different animal than your typical daily driver.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby jedrider » Mon 13 Feb 2017, 17:47:52

SeaGypsy wrote:Brake pads are dirt cheap by comparison to clutches, either are cheaper than automatics when talking repairs. Every gear change a friction point occurs, involving wear (sorry but MD doesn't know what he is talking about). Autos also don't like being in one gear for a long time, mainly if driving very long distances in top gear can cause another set of problems. Paddle shifts are pleasant to drive, anything but to repair, think about 4+ times the price of a replacement gearbox. For efficiency in maintenance terms the cheapest is a carefully driven manual with overdrive. By careful i mean no high rev clutch outs & use brakes to stop, not gears.


So, I have a question. I live in the hills, which is a living arrangement made possible by cheap oil. So, in going down a steep hill, is it worth it to do it in second on an automatic, for instance? I always feel that it is also a safety issue and I figure that ten minutes of downhill will not overheat the gearbox and it is a pain to have to change brake pads frequently. In the manual car, using the gearbox to 'slow down' is a no brainer to me, for safety issues as well. I wonder how this works out? Yes, stopping using the gear box is a poor choice. But do paddle shifters wear out just by using them occasionally?

Want to know as we are still purchasing gasoline ICE cars because for $25K total purchase price, it still seems like a great deal to me. I tried so hard to keep older cars going, but mechanics are now charging over $100/hour here, and don't get me started about doctors and lawyers.
User avatar
jedrider
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3106
Joined: Thu 28 May 2009, 10:10:44

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 13 Feb 2017, 18:14:26

Outcast_Searcher wrote:So yeah Adam, for those able to afford it (two cars, one very sporty) and willing to do the damage to the environment, you are exactly right.


Driving any car is a matter of damage to the environment, the only type of car being acceptable in this regard would be a non-CO2 emitting one. The wife drives that one. But that car is about either a daily grind commute, or road tripping the country, for the love of road tripping, and to enjoy the consequences of peak oil.

Outcast_Searcher wrote: But that isn't what Dissident is talking about. I choose to have my performance car experience be "visceral" via Youtube videos.


Somehow, I doubt the G loading of youtube videos is the same as the real thing.

Outcast_Searcher wrote: Just as my various art collections are in books. Books or videos aren't as good as the real thing(s), but OTOH, the price is much better and the environmental damage is inconsequential via the books, so a person has to decide what their priorities are.


Agreed. I also have a collection of books. But they don't quite have that life or death feel to drifting all four wheels through a corner, or four wheeling Moab. Burning gasoline is a terrible waste when used to just be a drone commuter, but used properly, and it is the stuff of dreams and adrenaline!

Outcast_Searcher wrote:Oh, and Adam don't assume I don't "understand" what you're talking about re the sporty cars. I was tempted enough to take quite a few test drives in cars like an Infiniti G37x, an absurdly expensive BMW, a fast Lexus, etc. For "fun" like acceleration and handling, yeah, a fast BMW is a COMPLETELY different animal than your typical daily driver.


A test drive in a luxury sport sedan is nice, how much track time did they allow you in such a machine?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Mon 13 Feb 2017, 18:16:03

dissident wrote:That is the commercial myth. Most people spend their commute time in traffic jams and not winding, car-free country roads where they can ignore the speed limit because there are no cops. They may buy on that basis (just like the saps that are influenced to buy beer because the commercials have scantily clad females) but it is the economics that affects their pocketbook and ultimately their state of mind.

Besides all the real stuff ,economy, reliability, drive, handling,good aircon, comfy seats,quiet
I find the amount of padding on the door and centre console matters
Ive driven long distances(days up and down the east coast) in rental cars that hurt my elbows....srs

......unfortunately we are so soft in the first world
Ready to turn Zombies into WWOOFers
User avatar
Shaved Monkey
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2486
Joined: Wed 30 Mar 2011, 01:43:28

Re: What does your car really cost you?

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 14 Feb 2017, 11:22:05

Shaved Monkey wrote:Besides all the real stuff ,economy, reliability, drive, handling,good aircon, comfy seats,quiet
I find the amount of padding on the door and centre console matters
Ive driven long distances(days up and down the east coast) in rental cars that hurt my elbows....srs

......unfortunately we are so soft in the first world


With me it is noise. I drive around the country on a regular basis, exploring and documenting our post peak oil apocalypse world, and after the comfort of the seats, I am sensitive to noise. The car must be quiet for 700 mile driving days, and it must be quieter than others with the window down. With poorly managed air flow across the drivers front side window, you just get this constant roar in your ears. But smooth air flow reduces the noise to just that of a breeze, and saves your hearing.

We are soft, but on the bright side, peak oil apocalypse hasn't been do bad that we can't drive around the country examining its horrifying effects, counting the cranes in the big cities, checking out the help wanted signs in various towns, observing the lack of breadlines or absence of rolling blackouts, making sure that cheap and plentiful fuel caused by peak oil is still available, that kind of stuff. :)
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

PreviousNext

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 58 guests