What do you think of the recent car sales news???

[Ghog]

I watched an interview with a GM vice-president on Bloomberg the other day when GM announced their earnings for the quarter. He was asked how much the "employee pricing" was affecting his company's bottom line. He stated that their "marketing expenses" were unchanged. This means that this is all a marketing gimmick and they are not selling their vehicles for any less now. They are just selling more of them due to the gullibilty of the car buying public. 1st post I think

It is a tough point to gauge as there are usually incentives on vehicles, especially domestic, like cash back (the public sees) and dealer 'incentives' (public doesn't see) that change the bottom line. I would bet they are taking a hit, just not much different than normal (as of late anyway). It really is a marketing ploy, as they even said recently, they don't want to offer rebates as it cheapens their vehicles' image. Now they are 'rewarding' you with better pricing.

[MD]

GM can only play the "employee discount" card once. They just cashed in on a perception that goes back many years. Around here there has always been an underlying envy for the GM worker that got these wonderful discounts. I can't imagine where GM will come up with the next marketing gimmick.

It's time for cars to go away. The sooner the better. Game over.

[cube]

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I can't imagine where GM will come up with the next marketing gimmick.
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Buy an SUV and get free high speed comcast internet access for a year!

[jdmartin]

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I can't imagine where GM will come up with the next marketing gimmick.
..............

Buy an SUV and get free high speed comcast internet access for a year!

That would certainly make me get out there!

The Big 3 make most of their money from their finance arms. If the finance arms were gone they would be out of business, since the car-making end of things has been marginal or a loser for a while. Ford Motor Credit, GMAC, etc is what is making the money. When banks started getting tougher for people to get car loans (because of the riskiness of someone spending 2 weeks worth of pay on a car payment), the dealers began taking over most of this business.

On paper, it looks like a fantastic idea. Self-finance your really expensive product, charge most people outrageous amounts of interest, and sell most cars for the inflated retail price. You rake in tremendous amounts of cash! The problem with this strategy is that you're not diversified. If people quit buying your product, you're double-screwed. One of the reasons to offer these incentives to get people buying is that they're never really making money from the cars. But, if no one's buying, no one's taking out 6 year loans, either. That can put a serious crimp into lots of things, including your growth prospects, which sinks your stock, meaning lots of bigwigs losing money as their stock options value falls thru the floor.

Really the whole thing is shell games designed to try and prop the system up long enough for "those that are" and a few "those that will be" in charge to get theirs. My father has sold cars almost all his life (Ford for years), and is close to retirement. He tells me 80% or more of the people he sees in the dealership have wrecked credit - chargeoffs, bankruptcies, repo's, etc. The deals he has to try and swing to get people into cars, the stories he tells me, are amazing. People so upside down on 2 or 3 different cars in a row that they're paying 30 grand for a Ford escort (or Focus nowadays). But people really, really want them cars, so the dealership will do it. What can Ford do? If they deny the loan, they're killing themselves off...

[spudbuddy]

Let me see if I'm getting this picture clear:

North Americans love SUV's because they're big and solid and make drivers feel safer. (So was the 1954 Ford Monarch.)
They feel safer because multi-lane highways are clogged with too many big honking vehicles to begin with. (burbs outpacing highway arterial infrastructure.)
All these vehicles are driving way too fast for the conditions of the road (congested).
Add to this an ever-increasing number of gigantic rigs...all driving too damned fast. (Wally's rolling warehouse.) Just in time delivery.
Everyone is driving too damned fast because time is money, which supercedes common sense and safe, defensive driving attitudes.
Holding down 2 or 3 McJobs...chauffering and shopping in between.

Sounds pretty warped to me. The very first thing I thought when I found out about peak oil was...why are SUV's still legal? The second thing I thought was what ever happened to 55 and stay alive?
Why not legislation that demands 50mpg minimum?
Why not legislation that slows down traffic?
I don't know the actual stats...how much gas do you save driving NYC to LA at average 55mph....instead of 85mph?
Wouldn't that cut down fuel consumption by about a third?


I think long before we get to the point of whether we're going to drive or not (based on whatever resources are left to us) we should be seriously considering what we drive, how we drive it, and why.
A car culture will never go cold turkey.
Unless our oil economy just literally falls off the table, some form of a weaning process will be necessary.
The better we wean....well, think about it. Lessens the tendency to suck thumbs, soothers, and other pseudo-mammary replacements.

Sometimes in moments of levity...I try to imagine this picture of people all over the world watching North Americans lurch around in giant guzzlers. Do they think we need these things because we're all 400-pound sedentary couch potatoes? (I'm a string bean myself.)
Do they imagine this is some kind of national fixation on size? (read: all the various porno body parts.) Kind of ironic, isn't it?
Big trucks / big houses / big macs / big boobs / not so little red roosters.
Well - our national psyche always did require four square feet of elbow room!

I don't believe that the changes necessary should be left up to corporate planning, design, marketing campaigns, or any other business venture.
All that's what got us in this mess in the first place.
If the first and last priority is a profit motive, business will always grab the cash now and worry about the consequences later. (read: Enron)

So it follows that stiff legislation, unfortunately, will be necessary to save our butts. From the current administration? I doubt it. Hopefully we survive until the next one.

[Denny]

Of course, those top strategists will provide themselves with golden parachutes regardless of the outcome for the rank and file workers.

Another classic american idea: Me first, f**k you.

I hate to agree wiht you,m but we can see the executive greed all around.

Take the example of United Airlines. The executive there have declared chapter 11 and have lowered their pension fund commitments. In effect, financing on the back of their retirees. Disgusting. These retirees, many of them, have no alternative income potential.

But, the sad story happened because the government allowed United to defer so many payments to its pension fund in the first place.

Meanwhile the executives continued to live off the fat of the land, and have even declared performance bonuses for themselves in the past three years while they did not meet their pension funding commitments. Hey, bozos, if you can't meet your financial commmitments, then what right have you to a "performance" bonus?

It seems like corporate Amrica has returned to the robber baron days, and they have been allowed to get away with far too much of it.

Now, I see similar with GM and Ford. Trying to claw back money from retirees. Why not just stick to negotiating with the active employees? And, just why did they agree to pay retiree health costs in the first place, as that sems like such an open ended commitment. I understand that GM is now paying for health costs for over one million Americans, most of whom are no longer employed there. It seesm a peculairity that American companies pay for supplementary health plans for retirees. It is not the norm here in Canada, for instance.

[Oily_Bill]

Not sure much R&D would be needed - Ford and GM in europe are making cars and vans that can do 30, 40 mpg. Go diesel and the numbers can go up to 50-60 mpg. Would need to re-tool the plants of course... or import the cars from UK/Germany.

How high would gas have to go before Americans were interested though ?

[Ghog]

Not sure much R&D would be needed - Ford and GM in europe are making cars and vans that can do 30, 40 mpg. Go diesel and the numbers can go up to 50-60 mpg. Would need to re-tool the plants of course... or import the cars from UK/Germany.

How high would gas have to go before Americans were interested though ?

I am interested NOW. Problem is demand controls supply. The Toyota Prius is on a 6-8 month waiting list, Honda Accord is just too expensive. We have basically 2 choices for a diesel. Volkswagon (sorry I don't like) and Mercedes (clean diesel, but very expensive). If we could get more selection here and at different price points, I would do it now. At least I don't drive an SUV (a small coupe). I am waiting and hoping for more choices here soon to improve availability and costs.

[shady28]

I am interested NOW. Problem is demand controls supply. The Toyota Prius is on a 6-8 month waiting list, Honda Accord is just too expensive. We have basically 2 choices for a diesel. Volkswagon (sorry I don't like) and Mercedes (clean diesel, but very expensive). If we could get more selection here and at different price points, I would do it now. At least I don't drive an SUV (a small coupe). I am waiting and hoping for more choices here soon to improve availability and costs.

If prices continue to rise, supply of highly efficient vehicles and diesels will get worse not better. Oil just made a new all time high (62.25 at the moment).

Have you looked at diesel Jettas? They are pretty nice. I'm thinking there is a diesel passat as well.

[Oily_Bill]

In Europe, there are diesel versions of most cars available. Eg I just ordered a new Jaguar (Ford) Xtype, which will get 60 mpg on a run, and 45 around town. These could be shipped to the USA. Some are, but I guess the demand is not there, or more would.

[emersonbiggins]

I think long before we get to the point of whether we're going to drive or not (based on whatever resources are left to us) we should be seriously considering what we drive, how we drive it, and why.
A car culture will never go cold turkey.
Unless our oil economy just literally falls off the table, some form of a weaning process will be necessary.
The better we wean....well, think about it. Lessens the tendency to suck thumbs, soothers, and other pseudo-mammary replacements.

The best thing that the U.S. can do is loosen or eliminate property zoning laws that preclude most citizens from doing anything without hopping into a car. It's currently illegal (in most places) to create the idealistic urban centers that are found in so many small towns and cities, e.g. the "town square". It is also duly noted that while "the American Dream" of a house and three cars is idyllic and wonderful , it's simply not sustainable as a long-term living arrangement. There's not enough resources to continue creating it, much less sustaining it.

[emersonbiggins]

In Europe, there are diesel versions of most cars available. Eg I just ordered a new Jaguar (Ford) Xtype, which will get 60 mpg on a run, and 45 around town. These could be shipped to the USA. Some are, but I guess the demand is not there, or more would.

The entire U.S. highway system is funded with a combination of fuel taxes (cents/gallon) and appropriations from the general budget. While the demand is there for highly efficient cars, there is nothing in place that would fund the highway system (in its current state) with a severe market shift toward fuel efficiency, exacerbating existing funding/corruption problems in our current highway industry. You can call it "policy," "collusion" or "conspiracy". My guess is it's all three.

[Ghog]

I am interested NOW. Problem is demand controls supply. The Toyota Prius is on a 6-8 month waiting list, Honda Accord is just too expensive. We have basically 2 choices for a diesel. Volkswagon (sorry I don't like) and Mercedes (clean diesel, but very expensive). If we could get more selection here and at different price points, I would do it now. At least I don't drive an SUV (a small coupe). I am waiting and hoping for more choices here soon to improve availability and costs.

If prices continue to rise, supply of highly efficient vehicles and diesels will get worse not better. Oil just made a new all time high (62.25 at the moment).

Have you looked at diesel Jettas? They are pretty nice. I'm thinking there is a diesel passat as well.

I hear you, but the real problem is that no one is making these vehicles in large quantities for the US. They can build 1 million trucks, but only 60,000 Prius. See my point.

I am familiar with the Jettas, just not crazy about Volkswagon. Sorry.

These could be shipped to the USA. Some are, but I guess the demand is not there, or more would

What is the surcharge for this? It may not pay do it. I guess my real issue is having to jump through hoops just to be more efficient and reduce oil consumption.

[emersonbiggins]

What is the surcharge for this? It may not pay do it. I guess my real issue is having to jump through hoops just to be more efficient and reduce oil consumption.

The U.S. probably has a medley of emissions/safety regulations that preclude one's attempt to import foreign cars as well. I don't know about this after the implementation of Kyoto, though.