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WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Mon 24 Aug 2015, 12:39:27

M_B_S wrote:
Cog wrote:The ability of the North Koreans to actually flatten Seoul with artillery and rockets is very questionable. Most of their artillery simply isn't within range of Seoul....

****************

WRONG!

North Korea has thousands of BM-21 Grad Missiles on SK-Capital

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/grad.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iSYObi5JjI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CvfaT66vjE
Those would barely reach the northern suburbs
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby careinke » Mon 24 Aug 2015, 16:50:02

Sixstrings wrote:
Image




That looks like one very noisy sub. Should be no problem to track.
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby KingM » Mon 24 Aug 2015, 19:05:17

careinke wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:
Image




That looks like one very noisy sub. Should be no problem to track.


Probably sink if actually tried to submerge.
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 24 Aug 2015, 21:23:32

Funny story. With submarines just like that the USA destroyed the Japanese Merchant Marine inside of two years once they solved the torpedo problem.

That is not to say North Korea would destroy a lot of ships, but even if they only sink 5 or 10 it would be a massive shock to the world economy. We don't build ships like we used to, in this day and age each ship does the work that ten ships did fifty years ago. Even if they only manage to sink say a dozen in an all out war that would have the economic impact of sinking about 120 in 1950. Not a killing blow, but a severe shock none the less.
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Tue 25 Aug 2015, 00:44:58

ennui2 wrote:
Keith_McClary wrote:Yah, they should do a proportionate response, like our best ally Israel does. :roll:


Glad to see you've come to your senses in respecting Israel's use of military force.

The point is, the US got on a moral high horse and criticized Korea when they did it. I guess the K-Lobby does not pay off CongressCritters as well as the J-Lobby.
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 25 Aug 2015, 00:53:37

Keith_McClary wrote:The point is, the US got on a moral high horse and criticized Korea when they did it. I guess the K-Lobby does not pay off CongressCritters as well as the J-Lobby.


No, actually, Obama admin has done "moral high horse" when Netanyahu has gone too far.

With Korea.. my impression.. just some US generals being cautious. USA would do the same thing about Poland, if it were jamming a stick over the border poking the Russians.

You get the difference there? Similar situations, yet different. In the middle east, the US actually has arab allies as well, and wants to be a neutral arbiter while of course Israel is a core ally and will be defended.

In the Koreas, US interest is just that there not be a war, unless there really has to be a war.

Anyhow, it's been worked out. NK "apologized," and SK turned the loudspeakers off.

Strategically -- at least we've found out something that really bothers north koreans. Propganda, and loudspeakers, etc. That's actually better than artillery, if they see it as even more threatening.

edit: to clarify, I'm in no way taking up for NK. They are certainly the antogonist and aggressor, the thing started with land mines and two SK soldiers were seriously injured.

It's just a delicate situation is all, you have to weigh what you will tolerate and what range of responses you will do, and when you will respond, and not have an all out war unless that is what you've decided you're gonna have.
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby ennui2 » Wed 26 Aug 2015, 14:35:27

Sixstrings wrote:No, actually, Obama admin has done "moral high horse" when Netanyahu has gone too far.


You're responding to the guy who calls the US and Israel a collective slur "USreal", almost like they're Brangelina or something. Don't expect him to have a realistic idea of how the US handles Israel.

Sixstrings wrote:Anyhow, it's been worked out. NK "apologized," and SK turned the loudspeakers off.


In which case, M_B_S' "Get ready folks! The main event is ready to start!" title of "WAR!" is yet another bad call for the doom-hungry.
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 26 Aug 2015, 15:14:57

ennui2 wrote:In which case, M_B_S' "Get ready folks! The main event is ready to start!" title of "WAR!" is yet another bad call for the doom-hungry.


I think this one was different. They'd never moved all their subs out, before. Nor put artillery in the DMZ.

I think those lousdspeakers really were seriously pissing them off.

I only know about NK from documentaries on TV (which makes me an expert :lol: ), but the thing about that place is they've got such a lid on any kind of dissent. And there is zero free press. Zero free speech. Neighbors informing on neighbors, husbands and wives scared to even WHISPER something bad about the Dear Leader, even in privacy; their own children could inform on them, then off to the labor camps they go.

In that kind of environment.. where you dare not even WHISPER dissent.. imagine now these loudspeakers penetrating 12 miles across the border, and escapees are on the mic saying the truth about how there's food in the South and freedom and things are so much better.

So now, think about however many of the million man NK army they've got within 12 miles of the DMZ, and everyone is hearing the loudspeakers from the South.

It was probably freaking kim jong un out, those loudspeakers could topple his whole regime.

The loudspeakers are actually a very effective weapon, that's a lesson that was learned here, but it's also good they just turned them off because things shouldn't be allowed to escalate to all out war with NK, unless that's a strategic decision weighing everything out and we decide we finally have to, but don't just fall into war.
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Fri 28 Aug 2015, 09:03:26

The NK army releases videos highlighting their ground game, and much of their equipment is WW2 to Korean War vintage. They are still using DP machine guns of 1920's design with the flat pie plate magazine on top. Still a primitive and effective weapon, but is that what the NK army wants to showcase?
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 28 Aug 2015, 10:09:51

PrestonSturges wrote:The NK army releases videos highlighting their ground game, and much of their equipment is WW2 to Korean War vintage. They are still using DP machine guns of 1920's design with the flat pie plate magazine on top. Still a primitive and effective weapon, but is that what the NK army wants to showcase?


I believe it was Stalin who said "Quantity has a quality of its own"

If a modern soldier can out fight 20 soldiers from North Korea and they have 21:1 odds they might lose 20 but still win in the end.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 28 Aug 2015, 10:55:04

Much of the current warfare in the Middle East/North Africa is being fought with fairly basic weaponry, machine guns mounted on the back of pickups, barrel bombs and the like. As noted above, quantity can outdo quality.
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 28 Aug 2015, 18:38:38

PrestonSturges wrote:The NK army releases videos highlighting their ground game, and much of their equipment is WW2 to Korean War vintage. They are still using DP machine guns of 1920's design with the flat pie plate magazine on top. Still a primitive and effective weapon, but is that what the NK army wants to showcase?

Meanwhile, south of the boarder...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34086297
South Korean and US military forces have conducted a joint live firing exercise to test their capabilities in the event of an attack from the north.

Tensions bubbled over in a brief exchange of fire at the heavily guarded border last Thursday.

Seoul and Pyongyang have since agreed to a deal to try and defuse tension.
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby M_B_S » Wed 06 Jan 2016, 04:03:18

North Korea succesfully tested H- Bomb?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOegC7Z3kqI

Happy New Year firework in North Korea

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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 06 Jan 2016, 08:33:02

Yeah, this got about 13 seconds of air play on NPR this morning, followed by a lengthy piece on a bizarre and obscure gay rights issue.

Glad to see we have or priorities right.

My gut is that this is just baloney from NK. If true then the response will be fascinating, no matter what. Suicide by cop?

It's really very hard to say what goes on in NK, if they are truly as bat shit crazy about their God like leader as reports say. If those reports of iphis adoration are true it is a sad condemnation of humanity because it proves just how mindless and easily led we are. If true.
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 06 Jan 2016, 09:54:23

Newfie wrote:Yeah, this got about 13 seconds of air play on NPR this morning, followed by a lengthy piece on a bizarre and obscure gay rights issue.

Glad to see we have or priorities right.

My gut is that this is just baloney from NK. If true then the response will be fascinating, no matter what. Suicide by cop?

It's really very hard to say what goes on in NK, if they are truly as bat shit crazy about their God like leader as reports say. If those reports of iphis adoration are true it is a sad condemnation of humanity because it proves just how mindless and easily led we are. If true.


The priority of the news media including NPR is to sell advertising/raise donations and they think fluff sells and fear gets people to turn off the news.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 06 Jan 2016, 15:17:39

Cog wrote:Don't worry. Our commander in chief is on top of this situation.

Image


Pops told me to quit teasing you guys about your obsession with unbending virile masculinity, but I will point out that you guys never get tired of shrieking like frightened schoolgirls. Somehow you are able to square that behavior with the tough guy you think you see in the mirror.

Image
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 07 Jan 2016, 18:38:01

ennui2 wrote:... calls the US and Israel a collective slur "USreal", almost like they're Brangelina or something.

Try suggesting to the Israel-firsters that it should be otherwise and see what kind of slurs they toss at you.
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Tillerson: Military action against North Korea 'an option'

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 17 Mar 2017, 05:45:13

Looks like the US is turning up the heat on NK
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39297031
The US has said its policy of "strategic patience" with North Korea is over, and suggested it may decide to take pre-emptive military action.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said the option was "on the table" if the threat from the North's weapons programme reached a level requiring it.

During a visit to South Korea, he also said the US was exploring a range of new diplomatic and economic measures.

He also defended the deployment of a US missile system in South Korea.

The move has angered China, but South Korea and the US say the system is needed to defend against North Korea.

Mr Tillerson spoke shortly after visiting the demilitarised zone which divides the two Koreas.

He arrived in South Korea from Japan, where he said that 20 years of efforts aimed at persuading North Korea to abandon its nuclear ambitions had failed.
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 17 Mar 2017, 07:23:52

While I understand the South Koreans wanting more defensive missiles I am also aware there is as Grandpa used to say, more than one way to skin a cat.

Two methods immediately came to mind, we could license the anti-missile technology and let them build their own independent system. If we are too self-centered to share it with them then we could park two AEGIS cruisers in South Korea, one on each coast patrolling in racetrack pattern. That eliminates all of the room for objection by other powers because of 'freedom of the seas' while also supplying reasonably good ABM defense to South Korea for the duration. We could even go so far as to sell our two oldest AEGIS cruisers to South Korea and let them do the work and pay the crews to keep the 'shield' in place.

As a history person I am well aware that during the 1950's and 1960's this is how we used to deal with these kind of situations. We 'sold' weapon systems to Taiwan and Korea and at least a dozen other countries that could not manufacture their own independent systems. As I pointed out with my first option, South Korea is no longer a poor backwater country, they produce a heck of a lot of ships and high technology items so helping them deploy an independent system under license would be easy peasy.
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Re: WAR ! North Korea troops are ready! Deadline 10:00 CET

Unread postby evilgenius » Fri 17 Mar 2017, 10:24:01

I think North Korea makes a good distraction. Situations like this allow for Trump to increase military spending, when the US already has the military that can do the job. They make a good excuse for Trump to look responsible by spending money where it isn't necessary and cutting spending where his people think it is unnecessary. In the trade-off arguments in favor of entitlement spending automatically lose out to increased military spending as long as flash points like North Korea, and the madness of its leader, are so easily put on a repeating loop. Trump's 50 million or so base is made up of the type of people who will look the other way over inattentiveness to their heroin and jobs problems as long as they can see their leader looking tough.

People have already stated that South Korea could probably do the job. The only reason nobody does is that China stands behind North Korea. The real question seems, therefore, what can the US give China, short of giving up Taiwan, in order for them to change their stance? Right now it looks like there are some options.

The Chinese want to build islands off of the Philippine coast. The Philippines also seems like they are wavering on their traditional support for the US. Island building hasn't caused them to run to the US. Is it possible that energy is the reason why the Chinese are building those islands? The Japanese discovered the importance of keeping shipping routes for oil supplies open during WWII. Could a concession over reliable future energy supplies to China cause them to abandon their support for North Korea? It doesn't have to be a concession over those shipping routes or those islands, though that might work. Various pipelines from Central Asia to China, along corridors secured since 9/11, might also work. The Iranians might actually cooperate in that kind of pipeline deal, which doesn't directly benefit the US. The Chinese have historical animosity toward the Russians. An agreement that helps them break free from reliance upon Russia for energy would also go a long way toward breaking Russian power as they seek to stand up to the US elsewhere in the world.
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