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THE Shale Gas Thread Pt 2 (merged)

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: THE Shale Gas Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 15 Mar 2018, 23:01:02

Given how cheap it is to produce shale gas why is the USA still a net gas importer?
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Shale Gas Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby coffeeguyzz » Thu 15 Mar 2018, 23:55:42

Pipelines ... more precisely, lack of.

Canada has an asston of natgas that still ships into the US.

Of course, the LNG plant in Boston harbor brings in gas from Trinidad, Yemen, Russia, cuz the stuff a short car ride away is that stinkin' no good fracked stuff.

Better to pay $175/mmbtu spot on January 5 at Transco Zone 6 than $4 bucks everywhere else.
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Re: THE Shale Gas Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby marmico » Fri 16 Mar 2018, 11:00:33

To a rounding error, the US was a natural gas net exporter in 2017.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n9180us1A.htm
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Re: THE Shale Gas Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 16 Mar 2018, 15:21:22

marmico wrote:To a rounding error, the US was a natural gas net exporter in 2017.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n9180us1A.htm


Look at that! Not only were these the only folks smart enough to laugh off the peak oil fear meme, but they were right about when the US would become a net exporter as well? I'll be darned...good thing we have experts publishing their work so we aren't left with the spam loaf that the likes of heinberg want to serve up to the gullible.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: THE Shale Gas Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Zarquon » Thu 03 May 2018, 19:04:17

https://www.propublica.org/article/west ... atural-gas

The Coal Industry Extracted a Steep Price From West Virginia. Now Natural Gas Is Leading the State Down the Same Path.
“It’s déjà vu for the people who sat here 130 years ago and gave away our coal wealth to big out-of-state companies,” one state senator said. “That’s what we’re about to do again.”


Long article about politics and natgas in WV. Seems not everyone is happy with the boom.
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Re: THE Shale Gas Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby coffeeguyzz » Thu 03 May 2018, 21:17:03

I only briefly skimmed part of that linked article but will return to it later.

There are many threads, many aspects to this particular situation, West Virginia and its emerging natgas industry, but a crucial component is seldom mentioned.

That is trust.

North Dakota culture demonstrably shows how government, regulators, and industry work in a collaborative atmosphere to ensure maximal societal benefit. This manifests by enabling effective extraction and handling of hydrocarbons with minimal collateral downside and equitable sharing of the overall financial returns.

Described succinctly, little harm, efficient operations, some revenues to all.

Unfortunately, ideologues have used every tool at their disposal, notably 401 water certificates and a gazillion other objections in their zeal to keep it in the ground.

The people of Appalachia are standing atop a hydrocarbon bounty equal to the middle with its oil.

Should prudence and integrity hold sway, generations to come will benefit enormously.
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Re: THE Shale Gas Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 03 May 2018, 22:41:58

Should prudence and integrity hold sway, generations to come will benefit enormously


Aye...and something I firmly believe in. If the normal Joe on the street was made aware of all the issues...OK. there is climate change and this is what folks say about it from both sides, and there is this about transportation of hydrocarbons the facts versus Greenpeace claims etc...they then could start to make some sense of it all. Instead, they are inundated by incredibly uneducated people telling them that "the bulk of scientists believe this" or "pipelines will destroy our way of life" which is not only largely lies but also not important to the understanding of....what do we do going forward. There is far too much politicization of what Joe Blow (who actually never took science beyond high school) believes is scientific fact versus what should be the normal discussion amongst scientists which involves ranges of the importance of immediate effect, ranges or eventual outcomes and ranges of related impacts.
Instead, we need to embrace the fact we need hydrocarbons from all sorts of sources for decades until alternatives can replace them (if they can...the numbers don't convince me as yet). But we can get those hydrocarbons relatively safely. It is amazing to me that folks here have not been paying attention to the new tech coming out of the oil industry that is focussed on making that industry "greener" (a term I hate because it has bad implications that are not bounded by science). There are all sorts of things that are out there right now from zero emissions well site to full recycling of injected water through the complete elimination of all exhausted gases.
I am a full believer we need to move away from oil and gas as our main energy source but I also know this can't be done in a very short time...there is not enough source from alternatives to replace it now or in the near future. The statistics are not the friends of those who say we can just stop burning fossil fuels. It doesn't work.
That being said we can be a lot smarter about what we do and we can continue to implement good EV tech and other similar things. We do, however, need to make sure that the Hoy Paloy isn't expecting some sort of energy panacea in the next few years....it ain't happening ...in fact, we are stuck with hydrocarbons for many decades as far as I can tell. I am, however, hoping for the ability out where I live in the country to have a number of back up charging cells (AKA Tesla) installed in my barn...and when they have reliable all wheel drive EV's I will probably buy one...but I doubt I will get rid of my back up ICE pickup.
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Re: THE Shale Gas Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Mon 07 May 2018, 11:36:46

rockdoc123 wrote:
Should prudence and integrity hold sway, generations to come will benefit enormously


Aye...and something I firmly believe in. If the normal Joe on the street was made aware of all the issues...OK. there is climate change and this is what folks say about it from both sides, and there is this about transportation of hydrocarbons the facts versus Greenpeace claims etc...they then could start to make some sense of it all. Instead, they are inundated by incredibly uneducated people telling them that "the bulk of scientists believe this" or "pipelines will destroy our way of life" which is not only largely lies but also not important to the understanding of....what do we do going forward. There is far too much politicization of what Joe Blow (who actually never took science beyond high school) believes is scientific fact versus what should be the normal discussion amongst scientists which involves ranges of the importance of immediate effect, ranges or eventual outcomes and ranges of related impacts.
Instead, we need to embrace the fact we need hydrocarbons from all sorts of sources for decades until alternatives can replace them (if they can...the numbers don't convince me as yet). But we can get those hydrocarbons relatively safely. It is amazing to me that folks here have not been paying attention to the new tech coming out of the oil industry that is focussed on making that industry "greener" (a term I hate because it has bad implications that are not bounded by science). There are all sorts of things that are out there right now from zero emissions well site to full recycling of injected water through the complete elimination of all exhausted gases.
I am a full believer we need to move away from oil and gas as our main energy source but I also know this can't be done in a very short time...there is not enough source from alternatives to replace it now or in the near future. The statistics are not the friends of those who say we can just stop burning fossil fuels. It doesn't work.
That being said we can be a lot smarter about what we do and we can continue to implement good EV tech and other similar things. We do, however, need to make sure that the Hoy Paloy isn't expecting some sort of energy panacea in the next few years....it ain't happening ...in fact, we are stuck with hydrocarbons for many decades as far as I can tell. I am, however, hoping for the ability out where I live in the country to have a number of back up charging cells (AKA Tesla) installed in my barn...and when they have reliable all wheel drive EV's I will probably buy one...but I doubt I will get rid of my back up ICE pickup.


Illogical and clear as mud.

No elaboration on what the energy alternatives actually are...
"Hydrocarbons from all sorts of sources"....there are no other sources.

"I am a full believer we need to move away from oil and gas as our main energy source..." but you have no idea what it is. LOL

FAIL. Total Collapse.
There is no escaping The Oil Apocalypse and there will be no survivors.
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