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Puerto Rico

Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 20:34:08

It should be understood that the cost of a buried line is five to ten times greater then the same line on poles or towers. As Porto Rico rebuilds the only lines that they can afford to place underground will be the lines between generation facilities and essential services such as hospitals and storm shelters. Taking that into account each generation station should be surrounded by both hospitals and any other "must have" facilities with buried lines between them before moving up to poles for the rest of the distribution system.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 06:40:55

VT,
They are soooo far from any of that. At this point they just want power today, or at least this month. Then maybe get the street lights working.

Their electric system is a wreck. Everywhere. Chewing gum and duct tape. What they really need to do is to replace the whole dang thing, 70% or more.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 07:14:11

Newfie wrote:VT,
They are soooo far from any of that. At this point they just want power today, or at least this month. Then maybe get the street lights working.

Their electric system is a wreck. Everywhere. Chewing gum and duct tape. What they really need to do is to replace the whole dang thing, 70% or more.

Oh I agree but while they are at it they should bury about one percent of it to make at least that essential bit hurricane proof. From what I read their biggest problem is the corruption and incompetence in the government and utilities. Unless they address that the fat cats will get fatter while the lines still don't get replaced.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 10:55:06

I wish our city would bury power lines. We will be having more and more ice storms that will take out power more and more often causing untold lost revenue. And there are of course other aesthetic issues--what they have to do to trees to keep them from growing into the lines is horrendous.

But if a rather wealthy US city can't manage to do so, I doubt that PR will be able to any time soon, though of course it would be ideal.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 12:16:13

Well PR doesn’t need heat and outside cities AC. So hey can reduce power consumption greatly. If you worked at it you could run your house on solar and wind pretty easily. But you would have to change your lifestyle a bit. LED lights, small efficient refer/freezer. Then no power lines at all.

You are a much bigger problem because it’s much harder for you to move off grid. Especially heat.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby GHung » Thu 19 Apr 2018, 08:15:09

If they are going to bury all of their power lines, they need to know where so they don't get dug up.

Puerto Rico Loses Power — Again

Puerto Rico has experienced an islandwide blackout seven months after Hurricane Maria hit the island and devastated much of its infrastructure.

Every single power customer on the U.S. territory is without power, NPR's Adrian Florido reports from San Juan. More than 3 million people are affected. It's the first total blackout since Hurricane Maria.

PREPA, Puerto Rico's electrical utility, says a fault was detected on a transmission line between two power plants and that service will be restored gradually. It could take 24 to 36 hours for power to be restored for some customers, the utility says. Hospitals, the island's main airport, water pumping systems and banking centers will receive priority as PREPA works to restore service.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... ower-again

Late word is that a digging crew cut a transmission line. Call before you dig? Maybe not in PR.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 19 Apr 2018, 18:30:24

Except, from the report I read, they got into aerial lines.

So yes to an underground locator service but this was aerial.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 19 Apr 2018, 19:45:32

Just spent 11 hours getting driven around Dominica by a tour guide. Didn’t cover half the island. This place is just amazing, we love it.

But if you think PR got hit hard by Maria you should see it here. They are really, really struggling with this. They had not recovered from Erica some years earlier, and now this. We MAY aren’t a car in a day or two but I am worn out with the drive and I was not driving. The roads have so many washouts, sometimes dropping hundreds of feet. Still large segments of population without power.

But the county itself is magnificent.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 19 Apr 2018, 21:51:48

Newfie wrote:Except, from the report I read, they got into aerial lines.

So yes to an underground locator service but this was aerial.

Not hard to clip a pole with the counter weight of an excavator if the operator swings without looking in the mirror. I once had a cowboy operator swing around so fast he knocked me off my feet with the bucket before I could jump out of the way. Poles don't jump.
I read that the same contractor caused both outages and that they have been fired.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 19 Apr 2018, 21:57:14

The tropics are also the places where it is easy to make wind power, solar power, and solar domestic hot water. Pardon me, but all too frequently we believe that we must BUY energy and conveniences. But anybody with a HS education, access to the internet, and some pretty basic fabrication skills and access to basic supplies like plastic film and concrete and dimension lumber/nails/paint can build a comfortable off-grid residence. You DO need a potable water source, of course - in a pinch, a solar still made from plastic film will make potable water.

That's what I would do in the Tropics, and I'd have enough materials stashed to repair any hurricane damage. High winds and rain are seasonal events and hurricanes are simply the extremes of both, so one plans for them.

I lived for three months in an off-grid A-frame cabin with a 12v electrical system made from a car battery, an alternator, and a 2-bladed propeller hand carved from a 4x4 wood post. It had running water via an RV pump, and hot water via a wood stove. If you wanted a hot shower, you boiled 10 gallons, and poured it into the cold water in the shower drum/tank which was 8' above ground level. Then it gravity-fed the constant temperature water from that 25 gallon plastic drum onto your head via a shower head.

When the wife came out to house hunt, I moved into a hotel. I knew the composting toilet was more than she would go for.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 20 Apr 2018, 07:32:04

Many of these skills have been lost on people, even the people living here.

Just an odd thought, we seem to have this idea of “learned helplessness” which is akin to what you are describing. May be on can call it a meem that has infected humanities collective brain. It’s a virus I tell you, fatal in the extreme.

OK, enough of that!

Here in Dominica the locals seem busy trying to make things work. There are probably easier ways to do things but they require capital. The Chinese helped them build a road from Rousseau to Portsmouth. An earlier hurricane (Erika?) took out some of the bridges. They were just getting to fix them when Maria hit. In the meantime the streetlights, LED with battery packs, have all been unscrewed and dropped and the solar panels and batteries stolen. Lacking capital the have ingenuity and gumption, if some lack of reguard for law.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 20 Apr 2018, 11:42:07

Elon Musk pushes more Tesla battery installs as blackout hits Puerto Rico


Not long after the billionaire entrepreneur’s Twitter announcement, Tesla’s official Twitter account shared photos of the company’s solar installations in the island as well, stating that there are currently over 1,000 Tesla batteries that have been activated in 662 locations so far. Echoing Musk’s statement, the electric car and energy company noted that more projects are underway.

...

As we noted in a previous report, if Tesla aims to supply 40% of the island’s energy through solar and battery solutions, the cost of the project would be substantial. Considering the rates of Tesla’s solar panels and battery packs, the cost of materials would roughly come at $9.58 billion. Factoring in an estimated 7% interest rate and Puerto Rico’s rather poor credit rating and high debt, the project could ultimately cost over $21 billion over 20 years.

What are the odds that Puerto Rico ever pays much on that debt, considering their credit rating and their current state of default? Also considering their decades of highly irresponsible financial behavior (both the people who don't want to pay taxes and the corrupt government and institutions borrowing the money).

And all that bad behavior / piling up debt was BEFORE the big storm hit them, of course.

I wonder if Tesla shareholders realize they're likely on the hook for much of this.
Or will the US taxpayers get the tab? At least it's a small percentage of $20 trillion in federal debt and RAPIDLY escalating, so why be concerned? :twisted: :roll:

https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-tes ... -blackout/
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 20 Apr 2018, 18:12:25

I’ve an extremely poor opinion of Mr. Musk, although inadmire his balls and salesmanship.

What is the lifespan of a Musk battery and figure in the recurrent costs and know the a wind farm and a BIG solar farm were BOTH 100% destroyed.

At least down here they have the potential of geothermal power. Montserrat has 3 wells drilled ant is trying to finish the project. Dominica supposedly has 40% hydro power (I don’t know that, been told) and that an Icelandic company has done successful preliminary drilling. It suprising, they have natural hot springs and a boiling lake.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 20 Apr 2018, 22:34:32

Newfie wrote:I’ve an extremely poor opinion of Mr. Musk, although inadmire his balls and salesmanship.

What is the lifespan of a Musk battery and figure in the recurrent costs and know the a wind farm and a BIG solar farm were BOTH 100% destroyed.

At least down here they have the potential of geothermal power. Montserrat has 3 wells drilled ant is trying to finish the project. Dominica supposedly has 40% hydro power (I don’t know that, been told) and that an Icelandic company has done successful preliminary drilling. It suprising, they have natural hot springs and a boiling lake.


Most of the small islands of the Caribbean are volcanic, just like Hawaii, New Zealand and Japan, because they sit on plate boundaries and the edges leak, more or less. The bigger islands like Cuba and Hispaniola have a few volcanoes, but they are not made of volcanoes per se, they are just places where the ocean is not deep enough to cover the land whether it is volcanic or not, like the volcanoes in Arizona or Siberia.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 21 Apr 2018, 05:52:53

Yes. I understand that. The volcanos are a natural resource, but also a hazzard. PR doesn’t have the opportunity Dominica has.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 21 Apr 2018, 09:54:21

Newfie wrote:Yes. I understand that. The volcanos are a natural resource, but also a hazzard. PR doesn’t have the opportunity Dominica has.


Sorry, I just LOVE volcanoes, if they are anywhere near me I always get as close as I can to learn and admire them. When I vacationed in Arizona back in 2005 I took the San Fransisco Peaks tour, exploring the volcanoes in the national park there (not far from Flagstaff, easy driving distance) and when I was growing up I was fascinated with the extinct volcanoes in the far north of Michigan. Those ones were smashed flat and scraped over repeatedly by the glacier cycles so almost all that is left are the roots, which supplied the mining zones for Michigan Copper discovered back in the 1840's. In a very real sense Volcanoes are the essence of the Chinese symbol that is combination Danger+Opportunity merged together.
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