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THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: The long wait for fusion power may be coming to an end

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Thu 15 Feb 2018, 09:57:06

baha wrote:Do I have to point it out again?

All we've ever had is a Fusion reactor powering the Earth. His name is Father Sun and he just loves turning hydrogen into helium. He's got at least 4 billion years left so just relax.


Unfortunately, in northern latitudes Father Sun is a lazy SOB in the winter months when we need energy the most!
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Re: The long wait for fusion power may be coming to an end

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:24:00

yellowcanoe wrote:
baha wrote:Do I have to point it out again?

All we've ever had is a Fusion reactor powering the Earth. His name is Father Sun and he just loves turning hydrogen into helium. He's got at least 4 billion years left so just relax.


Unfortunately, in northern latitudes Father Sun is a lazy SOB in the winter months when we need energy the most!

So wind and batteries or geothermal, nuclear, etc. And if all else fails, FF's, at least as a backup. It's not that we can't use ANY FF's, at least until we figure something else out. It's that we need to be using them as little as possible, ASAP. (And of course, we're not taking that seriously as a species).
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: The long wait for fusion power may be coming to an end

Unread postby dissident » Fri 16 Feb 2018, 07:59:21

Tanada wrote:BAH Humbug, they have been promising me Fusion power too cheap to meter basically my whole life and they have yet to accomplish anything except creating big booms that generate raw untappable energy.


They would be the MSM and not the scientists.
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This MIT Project Says Nuclear Fusion Is 15 Years Away (No, R

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 09 Mar 2018, 16:00:44


In the 1950s, researchers predicted that the world would have nuclear fusion–which uses hydrogen atoms, an incredibly abundant fuel, to provide clean, almost limitless power, while avoiding the hazardous waste problem and catastrophic risk of current nuclear power–within 20 years. By the 1970s, predictions were still at least that far away; the same was true by the 1990s. Now a team at MIT, along with an MIT spin-off company, Commonwealth Fusion Systems, says that the technology might finally be within reach. Despite years of false starts, the university and startup believe that they can produce a working pilot plant in 15 years. A difference from the past, they say, is a new type of superconducting material that only recently became commercially available. Nuclear fusion is, as evidenced by the speed of progress to date, an incredibly challenging problem. To slam hydrogen atoms


This MIT Project Says Nuclear Fusion Is 15 Years Away (No, Really, This Time)
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Re: The long wait for fusion power may be coming to an end

Unread postby StarvingLion » Fri 09 Mar 2018, 21:18:47

The ITER Fusion Scam is Bankrupt.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nucl ... SKCN1GJ021

An international project to build a nuclear fusion reactor in France that would start generating electricity in 17 years will face delays if Trump administration cuts are not reversed in a few months, the head of the venture said on Tuesday.

Bernard Bigot, director-general of the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor project, or ITER, said the administration’s budget cuts would reduce the U.S. contribution to the project and lead to construction delays. “It’s not a question of capability, it’s a question of political will,” Bigot said in a telephone interview while he was in Washington to meet with U.S. officials.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Sys1 » Sat 10 Mar 2018, 04:58:53

Nuclear fusion is in theory a game changer regarding peak oil/growth/pollution/expansion in solar system and universe.
Fermi paradox : If nuclear fusion were possible, we would have been already visited by out-of-Earth civilisations. At least would we have seen a trace of advanced civilisation in space. As it's not the case, this technology will stay out of reach forever.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sat 10 Mar 2018, 07:09:03

Nuclear fusion would not change the facts of why faster than light travel is impossible. Or even travel at a significant percentage of light speed.

There is also another possibility that I know some here find unpalatable. That life is extremely rare and there is no one out there in the universe except us right here.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Sys1 » Sat 10 Mar 2018, 09:00:17

We don't need faster than light technology to expand in our 200 000 lightyears diameter's galaxy (I admit that beyond galaxy is impossible because of Universe expansion). It would only take millions of years to expand, especially if we use artificial intelligence and robotic to do it. In case of a business as usual scenario for this century, artificial intelligence will dominate Earth before 2100.
Moreover, millions of years is very fast at geologic scale. That's why either we are extremely rare in the universe, either it's simply impossible to create a sustainable civilisation.
As the current key of our civilisation is hydrocarbon energy, it means that something as extraordinary as fusion energy will stay a dream. Nevertheless, I consider that keeping searching a way to create a thermonuclear plant is still far better than creating thermonuclear weapons.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby diemos » Sat 10 Mar 2018, 13:28:20

There's also the more upbeat possibility that the civilization that controls this part of the galaxy has a non-interference directive and we're living in a "nature reserve" until such time as we attain interstellar capability ... or destroy ourselves ... you know, whichever comes first.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 10 Mar 2018, 18:29:14

Sys1 wrote:Moreover, millions of years is very fast at geologic scale. That's why either we are extremely rare in the universe, either it's simply impossible to create a sustainable civilisation.

Or, we arrogantly assume we know what intelligent life would be like (i.e. us -- like the "God looks like us meme"). Or the technological evidence of intelligent races a wee bit more advanced than us (say, a few thousand years) is so different than ours, that we don't even know what to look for. (Shades of Star Trek, when they find an old radio signal and are very surprised).

Maybe we're extremely rare. Or just extremely stupid / undeveloped.

But I know. We're "special". Just ask any major religion (which insists it is the "correct" one), or just the assumption that somehow, we're the center of the universe, at each stage of what we discover is "out there" (no matter how inisgnificant the scale makes us in the scheme of things).

For me, the older I get and the more I see, in perspective, "very stupid" seems to pass the Occam's Razor test far better than "special". And I know -- I'll never be accepted into the local chapter of "The Optimists Club". I'll just have to try and survive, anyway. :roll:
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby dissident » Sat 10 Mar 2018, 19:46:26

There is no physical reason why human intelligence would be unique in the universe. The number of Earth-like planets being discovered is stupefying. It means that across the vast cosmic sea of galaxies there are billions of planets nearly identical to the Earth. Even if each one of them has a distinct set of realizations of life, the probability of encountering similar conditions that pushed primates to grow bigger brains on Earth approaches 100% on thousands of these planets.

Of course, there is no reason that mammal-like species will be the only ones to develop intelligence. So the stupid Star Trek universe of humanoids from different roots is not so stupid. But the issue is not what the details are, but that 1) there is guaranteed to be other life and 2) that some fraction of planets with life will have intelligent species.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:12:14

Meanwhile, do the scientists know what they are doing?

Answer: Nope.

They are groping in the dark, totally clueless, waving their magic wand called magnetism.

These idiots look for features that only mathematical models can satisfy.

"Why lets build this thing called the National Ignition Facility based on numerical codes and see what happens".

They didn't even properly instrument the device in order to get good data. They have been fumbling around for 40 years guessing and getting nowhere.

The ITER scam is a replay. A bogus device that doesn't even function as a proper experimental platform. In the next MCF's after ITER, they'll turn up the temperatures, end up with complex dynamics they do not understand, and are back to the beginning understanding nothing.

Pure FRAUD.
Last edited by StarvingLion on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:53:29, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:37:30

Sys1 wrote:We don't need faster than light technology to expand in our 200 000 lightyears diameter's galaxy (I admit that beyond galaxy is impossible because of Universe expansion). It would only take millions of years to expand, especially if we use artificial intelligence and robotic to do it. In case of a business as usual scenario for this century, artificial intelligence will dominate Earth before 2100.
Moreover, millions of years is very fast at geologic scale. That's why either we are extremely rare in the universe, either it's simply impossible to create a sustainable civilisation.
As the current key of our civilisation is hydrocarbon energy, it means that something as extraordinary as fusion energy will stay a dream. Nevertheless, I consider that keeping searching a way to create a thermonuclear plant is still far better than creating thermonuclear weapons.


Thermonuclear/fission weapons have been a dud. They don't get used, so whats the point. Trillions down the drain.

If these boneheads called scientists had any credibility they would have invented a fusion device that merely melts some material rather than pure fusion bombs (national ignition facility) or pipedream MCF's (ITER), which would be a far greater accomplishment than the manhattan project.

The Physicists are a laughing stock:

http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=9968

5 Years of Multiverse Mania
Posted on January 29, 2018 by woit

Today is the 15th anniversary of the event that kicked off the Multiverse Mania that continues to this day, recently taking the form of a concerted attack on conventional notions of science. 2018 has seen an acceleration of this attack, with the latest example appearing this weekend.
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The search for clean, abundant energy

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 14 Mar 2018, 20:16:05

Oxford-based energy generation and inertial confinement fusion research organisation, First Light Fusion is investing £3.6 million to build a pulsed power machine to advance the company’s work exploring fusion. The device, labelled Machine 3, is under construction and on track to be commissioned by the end of 2018. It will be the only pulsed power machine of its scale in the world dedicated to researching fusion energy. Once complete, it will be capable of discharging up to 200,000 volts and in excess of 14 million ampere within two microseconds. The Machine will use around 3km of high voltage cables and another 10km of diagnostic cables. Machine 3 will be used to further research First Light Fusion’s technology as the company seeks to achieve first fusion. The next step in the technological development will be to achieve ‘gain’, whereby the amount of


The search for clean, abundant energy
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Fri 16 Mar 2018, 13:10:08

Adam is so pitifully desperate that he has become a Fusion crank promoter.

Next stop: Rock Thrower.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Tue 03 Apr 2018, 11:51:38

OMG, its coming people, FUSION. They gotz a patent now. Unbelivable.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19 ... on-reactor

Lockheed Martin Now Has a Patent For Its Potentially World Changing Fusion Reactor
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 03 Apr 2018, 13:24:11

Keep posting. Tnx!
StarvingLion wrote:OMG, its coming people, FUSION. They gotz a patent now. Unbelivable.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19 ... on-reactor

Lockheed Martin Now Has a Patent For Its Potentially World Changing Fusion Reactor

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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 03 Apr 2018, 16:25:15

We have been hearing about Fusion since at least WWII, and it's always we are at the cusp. Never mind it appears to be too complicated, cost prohibited and an EROEI loser
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby lpetrich » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 05:58:31

onlooker wrote:We have been hearing about Fusion since at least WWII, and it's always we are at the cusp. Never mind it appears to be too complicated, cost prohibited and an EROEI loser

As some others here have pointed out, it also has the looming problem of preemption by renewable sources. It is currently so complicated and difficult that even if it can get an EROEI greater than 1, it will take a *lot* of R&D before it can compete with renewable sources.

So where might it be useful? High latitudes? That is because of such locations' limited sunlight, though some such locations have good winds. Outer space? Especially the outer Solar System and interstellar spaceflight. One would need some *very* low-maintenance designs there.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Mon 25 Jun 2018, 07:03:52

onlooker wrote:We have been hearing about Fusion since at least WWII, and it's always we are at the cusp. Never mind it appears to be too complicated, cost prohibited and an EROEI loser


Every single peaceful method of releasing fusion energy we have ever tried s a net energy consumer. The only way we have discovered to release abundant fusion energy is witha very large explosion. There was even a suggestion decades ago to use the smallest size fusion explosives suspended in huge underground chambers filled with water. The theory was boom, water is flashed to superheated steam then pipes are used to direct the steam through turbines to generate energy. The list of problems with this method are incredibly long, and yet in all the decades since it was proposed no other attempt has been energy positive. A related scheme was to set off dozen of explosion several thousand feet down to create a magma pocket, then hook that up to water and steam lines and use it as an artificial geothermal heat supply. Every year or so as the artificial magma cooled they would drill down into it with more booms to reheat the magma.
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