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When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Prices?

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 13:04:33

rockdoc123 wrote: I believe the government needs to realize the challenge and pull its thumb out. There needs to be research incentives for additional developments in solar, wind and nuclear and the various think tanks need to start looking at what the energy balance might look like if proper conversions were done so that natural gas could be used more as a liquid fuel offset (GTL or propane). But someone has to get the ball rolling. It doesn't help that the government still doesn't see the looming problem.


+1

Thats exactly the point I've been making for years.

The Peak Oil crisis is bad enough. But the failure of the US government to address peak oil is going to make the problem worse.
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby mmasters » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 15:30:52

Pops wrote:Personally, I can't see us replacing oil as we waste it today - we employ approximately 26 oil slaves (just oil slave, working 8/7/365 @100w/hr) for every man, woman and child in the world. That's a tall order. But I can see us dialing our use in the rich world way back from the 144.5 slaves each and every person in the US uses.

I think it just depends on where you fall for how bad it will be, as the US goes third world much of the third world will go the route of Africa. As long as you're in the top 50% you should be ok for this lifetime. Having kids at this point is probably ok for their prospects if you're in the top 25%. It will be a nightmare for a lot of people but probably not so bad for many on this board.
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby Revi » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 15:41:05

The market is not telling what's up today.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/crude-com ... ket-halted

What does this mean? Is it just that NYMEX is off line or is something happening?

The barrel cost is stuck at $100. Where is it actually?
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby Pops » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 15:47:13

The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby Pops » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 15:50:11

mmasters wrote:As long as you're in the top 50% you should be ok for this lifetime.

If you can't make the payments it doesn't matter if you are a 1%er or a 99%er.
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 15:59:56

babystrangeloop wrote:Oh look, here comes another economic alteration.
Greece Debt Drama Is Downside Risk to $100 Oil: Survey
Sri Jegarajah / CNBC / February 12, 2012


Oil prices will likely consolidate around $100 a barrel this week though any move higher will be capped by market uncertainty on what happens next in Greece. On Sunday night, Greek leaders passed new austerity measures crucial to receiving a second bailout package, but violence in Athens marred the vote.

... This week, consensus opinion in CNBC's oil sentiment survey suggests the market will continue to shrug off negative headlines from Europe though any upside move will be limited. Out of ten respondents, 60 percent expect prices to rise, twenty percent expect prices to fall and the remaining twenty percent are calling for prices to remain stable. ...

Looks like the response to the Greek bailout potential did more than they expected. NYMEX crude is $101 right now.
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 16:23:32

Oil Gains as Greek Approval of Austerity Plan Bolsters Economic Optimism
By Mark Shenk / Bloomberg / February 13, 2012


... Crude oil for March delivery increased $2.23 to $100.90 a barrel at the 2:30 p.m. close of floor trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Futures are up 18 percent from a year ago.

CME Group Inc.’s Globex crude and products markets have been halted “due to technical issues,” the company said in a notice posted on its website. There are no oil price ticks after 2:04 p.m. CME is the parent company of Nymex. ...

It's a well known fact that computers break down when they try to count too high, right?
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby mmasters » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 17:37:06

Pops wrote:
mmasters wrote:As long as you're in the top 50% you should be ok for this lifetime.

If you can't make the payments it doesn't matter if you are a 1%er or a 99%er.

Payments for oil? The system will remain just shrink.
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby Pops » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 18:10:54

No, I meant that for most people "top 50%" just means you make bigger payments not that they are immune to shrinkage.

Half of households say they couldn't come up with $2k cash for an emergency - including a quarter of those making over $100k.

So if my system just shrinks and I have no backup and I can't make the mortgage I don't lose a little, I lose everything. It doesn't matter that my system was 2 or 5 or 50 times larger than average.

Obviously at some level"bills" become irrelevant but that's way above 50%.

http://crasstalk.com/2011/06/american-h ... ncy-funds/
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby mmasters » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 19:44:38

Yeah that's another thing, credit starts drying up and saved money and income producing assets become more relevent it may be only the top 30% or so that will fare alright for this lifetime. I'm waiting to see class warfare targeted towards the 1% brew up in the US. I think that's what the occupy wall st movement is really the beginning of.

Pops wrote:No, I meant that for most people "top 50%" just means you make bigger payments not that they are immune to shrinkage.

Half of households say they couldn't come up with $2k cash for an emergency - including a quarter of those making over $100k.

So if my system just shrinks and I have no backup and I can't make the mortgage I don't lose a little, I lose everything. It doesn't matter that my system was 2 or 5 or 50 times larger than average.

Obviously at some level"bills" become irrelevant but that's way above 50%.

http://crasstalk.com/2011/06/american-h ... ncy-funds/
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Tue 14 Feb 2012, 07:36:42

babystrangeloop wrote:
Oil Gains as Greek Approval of Austerity Plan Bolsters Economic Optimism
By Mark Shenk / Bloomberg / February 13, 2012


... Crude oil for March delivery increased $2.23 to $100.90 a barrel at the 2:30 p.m. close of floor trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Futures are up 18 percent from a year ago.

CME Group Inc.’s Globex crude and products markets have been halted “due to technical issues,” the company said in a notice posted on its website. There are no oil price ticks after [Feb 13] 2:04 p.m. CME is the parent company of Nymex. ...

It's a well known fact that computers break down when they try to count too high, right?

Nymex CL is $101.46 this morning, will there be another "technical issue" with CME's systems again?

NYMEX glitch halts electronic crude trading
By David Sheppard And Matthew Robinson / Reuters / February 14, 2012


... In what some traders said was one of the most disruptive glitches since parallel electronic trading was launched about six years ago, the CME Group's Globex platform froze at 2: 04 p.m., half an hour be-fore the close. Some market watchers blamed the outage for a 50-cent jump in crude oil prices. Trading resumed at 3: 15 p.m., after the exchange had cancelled all daily orders. ...

Games people play. "Blamed the outage for the jump in oil prices"? How about "blamed the jump in oil prices for the outage"? "So sorry our computers broke just when the price of oil was shooting up." Funny how they work all the time when it's not.

And of course the WSJ has to chime in about how it was the "computers broke then the price went up" story too. The WSJ has their snowjob control set on "maximum blizzard" when it comes to peak oil these days.

CME Group: Globex Crude Markets Halted Due To Technical Issues
By Jerry A. DiColo and Dan Strumpf / WSJ (blogs) / February 13, 2012


... Traders on the floor of the Nymex rushed into the normally sleepy oil-futures pits, brokers and other traders on the floor said, looking to place trades and take advantage of any price dislocations due to the failure of Globex.

“A bunch of options guys ran over there, nat gas brokers are there—everybody is trying to take advantage of the wide quotes and stuff,” said Fred Rigolini, vice president of Paramount Options, a brokerage on the Nymex floor. ...

If that's so why did the price first hit exactly $101.00 then the computers broke?
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby sjn » Tue 14 Feb 2012, 15:21:29

Algorithmic traders created an oscillation around 100-101 by buying and selling in sufficient volume to move the market between trigger points.
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby sparky » Tue 14 Feb 2012, 23:10:33

.
pop-s headline post is so far my thinking too
a big unknown is Iran which has massive , cheap and easily acessible reserves

of course a change of policy by the U.S. or a regime change would be needed

Don't relly on the NY quoted West Texas price
it used to be The reference , now it's just a politico traders play thing
the Brent is better and better still the OPEC basket
it used to be the lowest of the three now it's on par with Brent
and that is for way heavier crude grade


That's real shipped crude , not some imaginary , extinct re -blended pretend grade
http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/data_gr ... b=annually
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby ralfy » Wed 15 Feb 2012, 07:50:15

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Surge in global oil supply may overtake demand in 2018

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 19 Feb 2018, 16:51:28

The rise in global oil production, led by the United States, is likely to outpace growth in demand this year, the International Energy Agency said on Tuesday. FILE PHOTO: A gas station attendant pumps fuel into a customer's car at a gas station in Shanghai, China November 17, 2017. REUTERS/Aly Song/File Photo The Paris-based IEA raised its forecast for oil demand growth in 2018 to 1.4 million barrels per day, from a previous projection of 1.3 million bpd, after the International Monetary Fund upped its estimate of global economic growth for this year and next. Oil demand grew at a rate of 1.6 million bpd in 2017, the IEA said in its monthly market report. However, the rapid rise in output, particularly in the United States, could well outweigh any pick-up in demand and begin to push up global oil inventories, which are now


Surge in global oil supply may overtake demand in 2018
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Re: Surge in global oil supply may overtake demand in 2018

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 19 Feb 2018, 17:53:33

Oil demand grew at a rate of 1.6 million bpd in 2017, the IEA said in its monthly market report. However, the rapid rise in output, particularly in the United States, could well outweigh any pick-up in demand and begin to push up global oil inventories


Since TOS in the US is the main source of increasing oil supply for the entire world, its reasonable to ask how much longer US oil production from TOS can continue to grow.

And since production in the Permian basin is continuing to grow, while oil production from the Bakken and other areas is less robust, its reasonable to ask how much longer oil production from the Permian Basin can continue to grow.

ANSWER---oil production from the Permian basin will most likely be able to continue to grow for several more years.

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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby misterno » Thu 22 Feb 2018, 15:23:00

Here is what I do not understand

US Oil production increased so much that it will be no 1 producer in 2018. Russia is having 30 year high oil production and yet oil is above $66

What am I missing here? Is this because demand is increasing faster than supply?
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 22 Feb 2018, 17:07:44

misterno wrote:Here is what I do not understand

US Oil production increased so much that it will be no 1 producer in 2018. Russia is having 30 year high oil production and yet oil is above $66

What am I missing here? Is this because demand is increasing faster than supply?


its a combination, demand has increased on the order of 4 million barrels a day since 2014 when supply exceeded demand enough to crash prices. Secondly the OPEC Plus agreement is reducing their supply on the world market, at least officially. Add in the export land model effects in most of the oil exporting countries and the market is tight, at least for right now. this has lead to the 'ghost storage' in oil tankers parked at sea to be brought into port and sold off and is leading to a steady drop in commercial oil storage in the USA and EU. On top of everything else the USA SPR has sold off some oil even as prices were rising which is likely to have slowed the rise by some uncalculated small amount.
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Re: When will Oil Supply fail to meet Demand at Current Pric

Unread postby misterno » Thu 22 Feb 2018, 17:46:29

Tanada wrote:
misterno wrote:Here is what I do not understand

US Oil production increased so much that it will be no 1 producer in 2018. Russia is having 30 year high oil production and yet oil is above $66

What am I missing here? Is this because demand is increasing faster than supply?


its a combination, demand has increased on the order of 4 million barrels a day since 2014 when supply exceeded demand enough to crash prices. Secondly the OPEC Plus agreement is reducing their supply on the world market, at least officially. Add in the export land model effects in most of the oil exporting countries and the market is tight, at least for right now. this has lead to the 'ghost storage' in oil tankers parked at sea to be brought into port and sold off and is leading to a steady drop in commercial oil storage in the USA and EU. On top of everything else the USA SPR has sold off some oil even as prices were rising which is likely to have slowed the rise by some uncalculated small amount.


If US keeps increasing production like expected, what will happen to the price? At what level of US production incremental increase will push down the oil price?
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