Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

The Decline and Fall of the American Empire Pt. 2

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Peak Empire

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 24 Aug 2017, 04:44:16

The period of decline is more to the point. If there is no obvious successor then the USA can hang on for a while longer providing some stability.

Maybe, if we don't tear ourselves apart internally.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 10137
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Peak Empire

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Thu 24 Aug 2017, 18:42:38

Stability is subjective
Ready to turn Zombies into WWOOFers
User avatar
Shaved Monkey
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2163
Joined: Wed 30 Mar 2011, 00:43:28

Re: Peak Empire

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 24 Aug 2017, 19:18:32

Yeah, and it's all just speculation anyway.

Most likely I'm gonna be surprised at what actually does happen.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 10137
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Peak Empire

Unread postby baha » Fri 25 Aug 2017, 13:05:33

It all comes down to money. As long as the dollar is strong we can continue to rape and pillage :) If the petro-dollar crashes we will be instantly broke.

Can the empire afford another Katrina or SS Sandy? It's going to be interesting how the current administration deals with Harvey. Every president gets criticized after a disaster. It's a good thing Texas can take care of itself...

Ok, now it's a toss up...who will kill us first? Our neighbors, other countries, or Mother Nature. Stay tuned :)

BTW - My son-in-law is in the Coast Guard, stationed in Corpus Christi. He flies on a rescue helicopter. My wife's daughter, him and the kids have all headed inland. I think he's going to be busy when this is all over.
A Solar fuel spill is otherwise known as a sunny day!
The energy density of a tank of FF's doesn't matter if it's empty.

https://monitoringpublic.solaredge.com/solaredge-web/p/kiosk?guid=19844186-d749-40d6-b848-191e899b37db
User avatar
baha
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu 12 Jul 2007, 02:00:00
Location: North Carolina, USA

The American Empire in the Middle East

Unread postby vox_mundi » Sat 20 Jan 2018, 12:22:46

A Rare Glimpse into the Inner Workings of the American Empire in the Middle East

Image

In recent testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, four former U.S. diplomats provided remarkably candid commentary on recent U.S. involvement in the Middle East, revealing a number of the most closely guarded secrets of U.S. diplomacy.

Some of the more astounding revelations concern the basic reason why U.S. officials remain so focused on the Middle East. Although U.S. officials typically emphasize the problems of terrorism and security, a number of the former diplomats indicated that the major concerns have always been the region’s oil, location, and function in the global economy.

Former diplomat Eric Edelman made the clearest statement on the matter, explaining in his prepared statement that geostrategic calculations have been central factors in U.S. policy since the end of World War II. “U.S. policymakers have considered access to the region’s energy resources vital for U.S. allies in Europe, and ultimately for the United States itself,” he wrote. “Moreover, the region’s strategic location—linking Europe and Asia—made it particularly important from a geopolitical point of view.”
... “The geostrategic and economic factors that made the Middle East so important to our national security in the past are just as potent today,” ... Even with recent increases in U.S. energy production as a result of the fracking revolution, “real or even potential disruptions to the flow of oil anywhere would have serious negative effects on our economy.”

- Ambassador Eric S. Edelman

With his remarks, Edelman made it clear that U.S. officials continue to value the Middle East for its oil. The region “contains half of global proven oil reserves, accounts for one-third of oil production and exports, and is home to three of the world’s four biggest oil transit chokepoints,” he explained.

When Edelman raised these points during the hearing, nobody disagreed with him. Neither his colleagues nor the committee members challenged his observations about why the region was so important. His remarks were considered so uncontroversial that they never came up for debate.

Image

... In these ways, the former diplomats provided some remarkable insights into the most basic reasons behind U.S. actions in the Middle East. They revealed that basic U.S. policy was to maintain a U.S.-led system of regional order so that the U.S. government could influence how all parts of the world gained access to the region’s oil.

Throughout the hearing, the four former diplomats also made a number of unusually blunt criticisms of U.S. strategy. They felt that their superiors in Washington and their many partners throughout the region kept taking steps that were creating more problems in the area.

Ambassador James F. Jeffrey was especially critical of the Obama administration, which he blamed for failures in the second Gulf War against Iraq. Jeffrey, who was the Obama administration’s ambassador to Iraq during the period when U.S. forces withdrew from the country in 2011, said that the administration should have accepted a secret plan to keep U.S. forces in the country.

Jeffrey explained that administration officials had arranged a secret plan with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki “to cheat, with Maliki’s acknowledgement,” on the final agreement to withdraw U.S. forces from the country.
... “We had Black SOF, White SOF,” he said, referring to classified & decoy Special Operations Forces Operations. “We had drones, we had all kinds of things” ... “It was a very big package, including a $14 billion FMS program,” ... referring Foreign Military Sales program. “We had bases all over the country that were disguised bases that the U.S. military was running.”

- Ambassador James F. Jeffrey

Jeffrey was reluctant to provide more details, but he insisted that the secret plan could have worked if his superiors in the Obama administration had tried it. He did not express any concern about the fact that an estimated 100,000 people had already died in the war.

... Jeffrey was especially critical of Turkey, a NATO ally. He said that “the things they do are toxic.”

... Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker reminded the committee members that the United States still relied on Turkey to maintain access to the region. He said that it would be necessary to continue working with the country’s repressive leadership, despite its troubling behavior.
“They are a NATO partner in a region where we don’t have a choice between democracy and autocracy,” ... “That’s not on the table.”

- Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker

The former diplomats signaled their support for the Iraqi government’s military operations against the Kurds, despite the fact that the Iraqi Kurds were playing a significant role in the war against IS.

Jeffrey argued that Iraq must hold together because of its potential to produce so much oil. He said that Iraq could eventually enter “into the Saudi Arabia category,” meaning that it could become a major player in the global oil market. “That’s a very important trump card, so to speak, in the Middle East, and we don’t want to just break it up,” he said.

Jeffrey was especially critical of the Iraqi Kurds for pursuing independence, saying that “they have gone in three months from one of the best good-news stories in the region to another basket case.”
If the Kurds keep crossing “red lines,” ... “we’re probably not going to be around to back them up when the going gets rough.”

- Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker

It’s the same as, sadly, with the Christian communities,” Crocker added, referring to Iraqi Christians who were facing their own challenges.

Image

In these ways, the former diplomats made it clear that they were willing to ignore the plight of their partners and other marginalized groups if they could not find any strategic reasons to support them. The challenges facing the Kurds and Christians, they indicated, were minor factors compared to the strategic factors at play. They all believed that they had to accept these trade-offs if they were going to achieve their plans for the region.

... Although the U.S. has constructed a kind of informal American empire, they believe that U.S. actions and polices are creating blowback that is bringing more conflict and violence to the region.

Anything we do to contain Iran, to push back, will bring with it great risks to us and to people in the region,” Jeffrey said. These were the lessons of history, he explained, citing “the chaos we deliberately created” to confront past challengers in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran.

Image

“When Highly Committed Parties Believe Strongly [In] Things That They Cannot Achieve Democratically, They Don’t Give Up Their Beliefs — They Give Up On Democracy”

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/18/16880524/ ... rumpocracy

Image


Lincoln's Address Before the Young Men's Lyceum of Springfield, Illinois - January 27, 1838

As a subject for the remarks of the evening, the perpetuation of our political institutions, is selected.

... All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.

I hope I am over wary; but if I am not, there is, even now, something of ill-omen, amongst us. I mean the increasing disregard for law which pervades the country; the growing disposition to substitute the wild and furious passions, in lieu of the sober judgment of Courts; and the worse than savage mobs, for the executive ministers of justice.

... It is to deny, what the history of the world tells us is true, to suppose that men of ambition and talents will not continue to spring up amongst us. And, when they do, they will as naturally seek the gratification of their ruling passion, as others have so done before them. ... [This gratification] scorns to tread in the footsteps of any predecessor, however illustrious. It thirsts and burns for distinction; and, if possible, it will have it, whether at the expense of emancipating slaves, or enslaving freemen.

Passion has helped us; but can do so no more. It will in future be our enemy.

Distinction will be [such a persons] paramount object, and although he would as willingly, perhaps more so, acquire it by doing good as harm; yet, that opportunity being past, and nothing left to be done in the way of building up, he would set boldly to the task of pulling down.


Washington's Farewell Address 1796

... I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

As a very important source of strength and security, cherish public credit. One method of preserving it is to use it as sparingly as possible, avoiding occasions of expense by cultivating peace, but remembering also that timely disbursements to prepare for danger frequently prevent much greater disbursements to repel it, avoiding likewise the accumulation of debt, not only by shunning occasions of expense, but by vigorous exertion in time of peace to discharge the debts which unavoidable wars may have occasioned, not ungenerously throwing upon posterity the burden which we ourselves ought to bear. The execution of these maxims belongs to your representatives, but it is necessary that public opinion should co-operate. To facilitate to them the performance of their duty, it is essential that you should practically bear in mind that towards the payment of debts there must be revenue; that to have revenue there must be taxes; and that no taxes can be devised which are not more or less inconvenient and unpleasant.

... The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of nations, has been the victim.

... Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government. But that jealousy to be useful must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it. Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests.


The Calculated Destruction of America’s Government
Last edited by vox_mundi on Sat 20 Jan 2018, 14:01:59, edited 4 times in total.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
User avatar
vox_mundi
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3798
Joined: Wed 27 Sep 2006, 02:00:00

Re: The American Empire in the Middle East

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 20 Jan 2018, 13:15:42

There's oil in the Middle East? Who'd a thunk it!
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4897
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

Re: The American Empire in the Middle East

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 20 Jan 2018, 14:14:39

vox_mundi wrote:[A Rare Glimpse into the Inner Workings of the American Empire in the Middle East

...

With his remarks, Edelman made it clear that U.S. officials continue to value the Middle East for its oil.
The region “contains half of global proven oil reserves, accounts for one-third of oil production and exports, and is home to three of the world’s four biggest oil transit chokepoints,” he explained.

When Edelman raised these points during the hearing, nobody disagreed with him. Neither his colleagues nor the committee members challenged his observations about why the region was so important. His remarks were considered so uncontroversial that they never came up for debate.

It's not like mentioning the elephant in the room changes anything for those with a functioning brain.

If in doubt, compare the level of attention and the consistency of that attention re the Middle East, to say poor African nations, or poor nations in general -- when they lack resources we badly want in the short to intermediate term.

(Lots >> almost zero).
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 5116
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 20:26:42

Re: The American Empire in the Middle East

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Sat 20 Jan 2018, 18:36:14

Middle east involvement is massively linked to Christian Zionists too.
The god of Capitalism is only one of the gods
Securing Israel prior to the eventual take over of China as the new World Power.

There arent enough Chinese Zionists to fight their proxy wars
Ready to turn Zombies into WWOOFers
User avatar
Shaved Monkey
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2163
Joined: Wed 30 Mar 2011, 00:43:28

Re: The American Empire in the Middle East

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 23 Jan 2018, 06:09:46

But Chinese interests in the long run differ little from American interests now, the oil is key regardless who. The US is likely to wind up a lot like Russia, able to defend a few key allies, while the greater power defers on those points while continuing it's big game. Israel is certainly going to remain a key American protectorate.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9104
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: The American Empire in the Middle East

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Tue 23 Jan 2018, 07:11:42

SeaGypsy wrote: Israel is certainly going to remain a key American protectorate.

Without the Jews in Israel there can be no Armageddon

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.pr ... -1.5628081
Ready to turn Zombies into WWOOFers
User avatar
Shaved Monkey
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2163
Joined: Wed 30 Mar 2011, 00:43:28

Sun setting on US empire

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 20:08:20

Leading US economist Laurence Kotlikoff says he remains optimistic about solving the big structural problems plaguing global finance, but he has a grim prognosis for the US if it doesn't change fiscal and monetary policies. "We're heading the way the British Empire went, its inevitable" he says. "The [US] dollar is going to give way to the Yuan as the global currency at some point, its just a matter of time." Kotlikoff is a Professor of Economics at Boston University and will be in New Zealand next week as the Sir Douglas Myers Visiting Professor to Auckland University. He was named by The Economist as one of the world's 25 most influential economists and in 2016 and that year he ran for the US Presidency as a write-in candidate. He's also a New York Times best-selling author. While he has a strong reputation his ideas


Sun setting on US empire
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4291
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: Peak Empire

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 12 Feb 2018, 04:29:54

Back in the 1980's the speculation was that Germany and Japan were the USA's natural successors because unlike most democracies they practiced fiscal discipline and were not rushing down the rabbit hole of deficit spending with the same glee as the USA/UK/France at that moment in time. In the last three decades however with the end of the cold war the social forces have changed to the point that much, though not all, of that fiscal discipline has been put by the wayside in favor of buying votes much in the manner of USA/UK politicians in the post WW II era. Germany still has one of the best saving rates of any democratically elected nation, however they have spent the last decade in a massive malinvestment in diffuse intermittent renewables and closing their nuclear power plants as quickly as manageable. They also tried to look like the world good guys by throwing open the doors to a flood of poorly educated immigrants which has strained their social safety net to the breaking point.

If China can succeed then it appears they will be the clear world leader in the next period, however Russia should not be ignored as a contender. Both nations have morphed from Stalinist Communism into a system more akin to National Socialism where the government supports business with one hand but constrains it for social and national benefit with the other. The USA dances around this idea but on the one hand the things government encourages business to do are not beneficial for the society as a whole and on the other hand the blatant vote buying by government officials is driving us into destruction levels of debt. It is as if the USA took the mirror image of the system now succeeding so well in other countries as our model starting in the 1960's and after 50+ years the consequences are catching up with the extreme spending.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14659
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Peak Empire

Unread postby diemos » Mon 12 Feb 2018, 18:27:00

Harumph.

China has morphed into a standard crony capitalist oligopoly, communist in name only.

Russia has descended into petro-fueled gangsterism.

I wouldn't put any money on russia to be anything but a nuisance in the future. China on the other hand I expect to start throwing its weight around significantly.
User avatar
diemos
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri 23 Sep 2005, 02:00:00

Re: Peak Empire

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 12 Feb 2018, 18:33:58

Tanada wrote:
If China can succeed then it appears they will be the clear world leader in the next period,


If the country is a row boat there are three paddles, the government, private enterprise and the citizens. In China they have all been paddling in the same direction in quite a coordinated fashion since the little blip in the Tienanmen square.

What about the paddlers of the US rowboat?
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Peak Empire

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 12 Feb 2018, 18:44:42

Ibon wrote:
Tanada wrote:
If China can succeed then it appears they will be the clear world leader in the next period,


If the country is a row boat there are three paddles, the government, private enterprise and the citizens. In China they have all been paddling in the same direction in quite a coordinated fashion since the little blip in the Tienanmen square.

What about the paddlers of the US rowboat?


In the US everyone paddles in their own direction. Its maddening sometimes.

But this isn't necessarily worse then the situation in China where everyone follows the Great Leaders orders and goes in the same direction, because the Great Leader is occasionally wrong and runs the whole country up on the rocks (to continue your rowboat analogy).

Cheers!
"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 21051
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

America: A Military Nation

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 17 Feb 2018, 19:57:52

Americans like to think of their country as different from those run by military regimes. They are only fooling themselves. Ever since the federal government was converted into a national-security state after World War II (without a constitutional amendment authorizing the conversion), it has been the Pentagon, the CIA, and the NSA that have run the government, just like in countries governed by military dictatorships. Oh sure, the façade is maintained — the façade that is ingrained in all of us in civics or government classes in high school and college: that the federal government is composed of three co-equal, independent branches that are in charge of the government. But just a façade. It’s fake. It’s a lie. It’s true that the federal government used to consist of three branches. But that quaint notion disintegrated when the federal government was converted to what


America: A Military Nation
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4291
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

The Militarization of U.S. Energy Policy: Donald Trump Enlis

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 19 Feb 2018, 16:06:39

As the recently published National Security Strategy shows, Donald Trump has turned the expansion of the U.S. fossil fuel industry and its exports into a major component of American foreign and security policy, writes energy expert and author Michael T. Klare. In the view of the Trump administration, anyone that stands in the way of American exploitation of oil, gas and coal resources is viewed as an obstructer of the national interest, notes Klare. He warns that this policy will lead to unprecedented environmental disaster. Article courtesy TomDispatch. The new U.S. energy policy of the Trump era is, in some ways, the oldest energy policy on Earth. Every great power has sought to mobilize the energy resources at its command, whether those be slaves, wind-power, coal, or oil, to further its hegemonic ambitions. What makes the Trumpian variant – the unfettered exploitation of .


The Militarization of U.S. Energy Policy: Donald Trump Enlists Fossil Fuels in the Struggle for Global Dominance
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4291
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Unread postby evilgenius » Thu 22 Feb 2018, 14:09:21

It never fails, everyone always tries to fight the last war. The last war was, and has been, over fossil fuels. Renewables have come about, but were always considered incapable of addressing the complexities of the war. They can't be fit into the paradigm. When we try we find that we can't store power made where there is wind, or that the sun doesn't shine at night.

Now, the war has brought an unwelcome consequence, climate change. Say what you will about climate change, one thing is proving certain, that there will be more uncertainty. That may be fine for cities whose only additional cost might be much more extensive snow removal in odd years. It won't be fine for cities like Phoenix, if they run out of water in any given year.

Despite a seeming isolationist posture, I think the answer is right under our noses. We can pump water uphill with wind and solar, storing the potential energy in reservoirs which would use gravity to produce energy as the water flowed downhill. In some cases the water stored could flow downhill for more than a thousand miles, making energy all along the way. But doing so would require a paradigm shift. It would require thinking ahead and addressing climate change before it got so bad that we only wished we had done something about it. It would require doing something about our attitudes toward investing in public infrastructure. It would require addressing our understanding of glorification, transitioning from that of power projection to exemplification.
User avatar
evilgenius
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2330
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Stopped at the border.

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 22 Feb 2018, 18:01:12

Totally logical. History has shown that EMPIRES because of their size and complexity need a constant stream of abundant energy to maintain their coherence.
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 8992
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

Unread postby GHung » Thu 22 Feb 2018, 18:28:55

onlooker wrote:Totally logical. History has shown that EMPIRES because of their size and complexity need a constant stream of abundant energy to maintain their coherence.


Even with abundant energy the outcome will be pretty much the same. All of that energy is what enables other behaviors, extractions, waste streams, and attitudes that result in decline. Well-endowed humans have a sense of entitlement that is not conducive of sustainability. Our own intellectual laziness and hubris will be our ultimate downfall.

As an old mountain man I knew used to say; "Big-dick boys, sooner or later, can't get it up. They don't handle that well. Not at all...."
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
User avatar
GHung
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2214
Joined: Tue 08 Sep 2009, 15:06:11
Location: Moksha, Nearvana

PreviousNext

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests