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Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 03 Jan 2018, 14:24:48

Additional fuel taxes are political suicide. Even if only proposed, they will cause a huge voter backlash, and make further Republican majorities in Congress and the Senate, and guarantee Trump a second term. Those are just the realities in the most wealthy country on this planet, among the retired or unemployed American citizens who are still numbered among the wealthiest 1% in the world. Because just about everybody wants more than they can afford.

The candidates who strike the right balance of talking Green and promising additional prosperity will win office. Likely that will be Trump and the R's. BAU in the land of the free and the home of the brave.
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Re: Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 03 Jan 2018, 15:02:08

KaiserJeep wrote:Additional fuel taxes are political suicide. Even if only proposed, they will cause a huge voter backlash, and make further Republican majorities in Congress and the Senate, and guarantee Trump a second term. Those are just the realities in the most wealthy country on this planet, among the retired or unemployed American citizens who are still numbered among the wealthiest 1% in the world. Because just about everybody wants more than they can afford.

The candidates who strike the right balance of talking Green and promising additional prosperity will win office. Likely that will be Trump and the R's. BAU in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Agreed. It's too bad the dems, who at least tend to TALK a green game (compared to the GOP) don't try a more intelligent path to get fuel taxes raised.

For example, they could call it a roads and bridges infrastructure tax, and raise the price by a dime or so, each year for a number of years. And they could actually USE the money for roads and bridges until those are all in great shape (probably would take two decades or more), and then use it for plenty of other critical infrastructure needs. (I like reliable and safe drinking water, reliable electricity, natural gas, and on and on).

And the desired marginal push against FF burning in ICE's would be achieved.

They could at least seriously TRY this, and likely gain some left wing fans to compensate for the obvious right wing booing.

...

But of course, thinking like this is why I know da*n well I'd never be elected anything. Telling the truth and being principled (I'd tell the lobbyists to go F. themselves) don't keep you in office in the good old US.
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Re: Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 03 Jan 2018, 15:34:27

Don't think they will ever fix it all and have everything in spanking new condition. There are just too many miles of roads, pipelines, sewer lines, railroad tracks, water mains, and electric grid etc. out there to ever fix it all faster then it is rusting around you. Even the interstate highway system which was built on a very aggressive schedule had sections and bridges that needed to be reworked before the last sections were complete for the first time. A dime increase in the gas tax , if well spent, would let you catch up with the rate of rust, and the rate of rut, at the same time as it boosted the economy and employment but the roads are just not bad enough yet to get public support for that dime. Let a few bridges get closed or fall down and things will come to a head.
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Re: Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Unread postby roccman » Fri 05 Jan 2018, 10:53:40

vtsnowedin wrote:Don't think they will ever fix it all and have everything in spanking new condition. There are just too many miles of roads, pipelines, sewer lines, railroad tracks, water mains, and electric grid etc. out there to ever fix it all faster then it is rusting around you. Even the interstate highway system which was built on a very aggressive schedule had sections and bridges that needed to be reworked before the last sections were complete for the first time. A dime increase in the gas tax , if well spent, would let you catch up with the rate of rust, and the rate of rut, at the same time as it boosted the economy and employment but the roads are just not bad enough yet to get public support for that dime. Let a few bridges get closed or fall down and things will come to a head.


gotta leave something for the chinese to work on when 400 million move in here.
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Re: Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 05 Jan 2018, 11:00:38

roccman wrote:gotta leave something for the chinese to work on when 400 million move in here.

Well at least they will know how to deal with the Mexican drug gangs.
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Re: Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 05 Jan 2018, 21:17:59

roccman wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Don't think they will ever fix it all and have everything in spanking new condition. There are just too many miles of roads, pipelines, sewer lines, railroad tracks, water mains, and electric grid etc. out there to ever fix it all faster then it is rusting around you. Even the interstate highway system which was built on a very aggressive schedule had sections and bridges that needed to be reworked before the last sections were complete for the first time. A dime increase in the gas tax , if well spent, would let you catch up with the rate of rust, and the rate of rut, at the same time as it boosted the economy and employment but the roads are just not bad enough yet to get public support for that dime. Let a few bridges get closed or fall down and things will come to a head.


gotta leave something for the chinese to work on when 400 million move in here.


Did you learn this while on walkabout during your years in the wildness after you became scared of the 2008 recession rocc? Spent some time in China, as opposed to banana republics down south looking for a fine Inca princess to help dig up your buried gold for the mad max days after you fled BAU? The grid in Phoenix must be down by now, weren't you telling people to max out their credit cards to escape the zombies? Did you ever even find a SINGLE zombie?
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Re: Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 05 Jan 2018, 21:49:21

AdamB wrote:
roccman wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Don't think they will ever fix it all and have everything in spanking new condition. There are just too many miles of roads, pipelines, sewer lines, railroad tracks, water mains, and electric grid etc. out there to ever fix it all faster then it is rusting around you. Even the interstate highway system which was built on a very aggressive schedule had sections and bridges that needed to be reworked before the last sections were complete for the first time. A dime increase in the gas tax , if well spent, would let you catch up with the rate of rust, and the rate of rut, at the same time as it boosted the economy and employment but the roads are just not bad enough yet to get public support for that dime. Let a few bridges get closed or fall down and things will come to a head.


gotta leave something for the chinese to work on when 400 million move in here.


Did you learn this while on walkabout during your years in the wildness after you became scared of the 2008 recession rocc? Spent some time in China, as opposed to banana republics down south looking for a fine Inca princess to help dig up your buried gold for the mad max days after you fled BAU? The grid in Phoenix must be down by now, weren't you telling people to max out their credit cards to escape the zombies? Did you ever even find a SINGLE zombie?

Bad drugs? Real bad drugs!!
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Re: Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Unread postby baha » Sat 06 Jan 2018, 07:54:38

You want to know why I am optimistic? Because I live in a different world than most of you. My optimism comes from working hard to make things better.

I told you about the 1.3 Mwatt system we contracted. It is the biggest net-metered system in the state of NC. Only because that is Duke Power's limit. We wouldn't want to fry their fragile grid now would we :) My boss said yesterday to complete the training for the Tesla Powerpack. In a few years we will be specifying a Powerpack system to make them independent.

What you see here is only about 1/5 of the complete system. We haven't got the flyover of the finished product done yet...but it is making power :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnPs-Pu ... h_BI3FdCcl
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Re: Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Unread postby baha » Sat 27 Jan 2018, 08:29:41

Here is a video of the completed system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6XhRxT ... e=youtu.be
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Re: Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 27 Jan 2018, 17:05:23

vtsnowedin wrote:Don't think they will ever fix it all and have everything in spanking new condition. There are just too many miles of roads, pipelines, sewer lines, railroad tracks, water mains, and electric grid etc. out there to ever fix it all faster then it is rusting around you.

Oh absolutely. I'm not even remotely pondering having it "all" in anything close to new or even excellent condition. I'm just talking about getting, for example, the bridges to the point where one doesn't have to worry about any of them coming down within a few years because of a real bad storm, etc.

Or the roads to where they are in consistently reasonable condition re potholes, chronic flooding in heavy rains, having signs and signals where appropriate and well enough maintained to consistently see and rely on, etc.

In other words, a reasonable turnover of maintenance to have a reasonably safe and reliable road and bridge network.

There is a tremendous amount of room between some middling ground like that and what we have.

Unlike most voters, I realize that you don't get such maintenance without paying for it. And IMO, who better to pay for it than the people who USE it (drivers of all kinds)?

...

To me, same for the grid, NG lines, water system, etc. I'd be happy to pay more, IF it meant (with someone supervising to ensure real compliance), better maintained systems, a meaningful inventory of crucial spare parts (stored in faraday cages where appropriate), etc. Most taxpayers think I'm crazy, apparently convinced extra tax money won't do squat.

It's really too bad when the system is so screwed up that the faith in it is so bad that voters won't support doing rational maintenance on the infrastructure our lives depend on over time.
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Re: Energy Infrastructure Progress Report

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 27 Jan 2018, 17:40:51

Outcast_Searcher wrote:-snip-
It's really too bad when the system is so screwed up that the faith in it is so bad that voters won't support doing rational maintenance on the infrastructure our lives depend on over time.


Please, we are adults here, and understand that the electorate is a dumb unthinking beast and that the government is a greedy bunch of self-serving confidence men.

Government is a necessary evil. The reason it is necessary is that people do not act naturally for mutual benefit. That's why we have government, laws, police, and ultimately armed forces. The problem being that all of those groups share the basic corrupt nature of the populace.

I have known decent honorable men and women who serve in government, law enforcement, and the armed forces. I have known decent ordinary folks, and make all efforts to live among them. But decency, honesty, and a desire to benefit your fellow man can never be assumed.
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The Great Crude Oil Fireball Test

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 06 Feb 2018, 10:05:17


If all goes well, a massive fireball of hydrocarbons will ignite in the New Mexico desert some time in the next year. It will be part of a multiyear Department of Energy research project to understand whether the chemical composition of unconventional crude oils changes the risk they pose to the nation’s highways, pipelines, and railroads. If all doesn’t go well, a similar massive fireball could go up over a derailed train, as happened in the town of Lac-Mégantic in July of 2013, killing 42 people, or outside Casselton, North Dakota, in December of that year, where somehow there were no reported injuries. These explosions, and several other high-profile derailments and spills, called attention to the danger of transporting crude oil in unprecedented amounts on the North American rail system. As more pipelines have come into play, the rail-transport boom out of


The Great Crude Oil Fireball Test
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