Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 04 Oct 2017, 21:13:40

StarvingLion is back to remind us all that the mentally ill should take their meds and stay away from keyboards.
Hubbert's curve, meet S-curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
asg70
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Oct 2017, 12:56:12

China's oil demand is up 6% percent (!) over a year ago.

chinas-oil-demand-is-far-ahead-of-last-years-pace

Even though China leads the world in the sale of EVs, it isn't reducing their demand for oil.

Cheers!

"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
"Il bel far niente"
---traditional Italian saying
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 20615
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 05 Oct 2017, 13:05:38

Plantagenet wrote:China's oil demand is up 6% percent (!) over a year ago.

chinas-oil-demand-is-far-ahead-of-last-years-pace

Even though China leads the world in the sale of EVs, it isn't reducing their demand for oil.

Cheers!

Image
China used to be oil-sufficient.

Then China turned to Indonesia

Image
Indonesia was soon kicked out of OPEC

No problem. We'll all drive Teslas lol
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26506
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby asg70 » Thu 05 Oct 2017, 22:38:12

Necessity is the mother of invention.

At present, we're in a glut. The fact EVs are moving forward at all is significant. Wait until we really do have demand outstrip supply. Then we'll see the S curve accelerate in a big way.
Hubbert's curve, meet S-curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
asg70
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby pstarr » Fri 06 Oct 2017, 01:15:07

asg70 wrote:Necessity is the mother of invention.

At present, we're in a glut. The fact EVs are moving forward at all is significant. Wait until we really do have demand outstrip supply. Then we'll see the S curve accelerate in a big way.

It's not a supply glut. It's a death of demand.

That EVs are on the road, and moving at all (forward, backward or sideways) is a surprise to me. I don't see any? Do you?

What's this s-curve blah blah blah? Is it magic talk?
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26506
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 06 Oct 2017, 10:33:17

asg70 wrote:Necessity is the mother of invention.

At present, we're in a glut. The fact EVs are moving forward at all is significant. Wait until we really do have demand outstrip supply. Then we'll see the S curve accelerate in a big way.

Or just meaningfully higher oil prices. People love to save money. The economic argument, over time, is the primary logic and set of trends behind Tony Seba's excellent argument for the coming S-curve in solar, batteries, and EV's.

The only real question is how rapidly, and things like the cost of oil will have a significant impact on that. Not that the doomers will ever admit that is possible of course, as it doesn't fit the doom meme.
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 4164
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 20:26:42

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 06 Oct 2017, 12:46:42

pstarr wrote:
asg70 wrote:Necessity is the mother of invention.

At present, we're in a glut. The fact EVs are moving forward at all is significant. Wait until we really do have demand outstrip supply. Then we'll see the S curve accelerate in a big way.

It's not a supply glut. It's a death of demand.

That EVs are on the road, and moving at all (forward, backward or sideways) is a surprise to me. I don't see any? Do you?]


As has been explained to you before, and you have chosen to ignore, of course I see them. The wife parks hers in the garage every night. Just because you live in some backwater where people aren't eco-conscious doesn't mean the rest of the country is as Neanderthal.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 3343
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 06 Oct 2017, 18:16:29

pstarr wrote:It's not a supply glut. It's a death of demand.


If simply stating an absurd claim a thousand times doesn't succeed in convincing people, just keep repeating it and maybe it will, right?

How it really works is you have to mount an argument for your claims, not just declare statements like this, but if you want to keep pissing in the wind, be my guest. Maybe you'll attract a few rogue mental patients who will rally to your cause like StarvingLion.

pstarr wrote:I don't see any? Do you?


I see plenty. Sorry the world is larger than THC slacker county where you live.

pstarr wrote:What's this s-curve blah blah blah?


It's been explained already. Note my sig and Adam's sig. You want to just be a child and go "blah blah blah"? All it does is demonstrate your willful ignorance on topics for which you claim to be an expert.
Hubbert's curve, meet S-curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
asg70
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby pstarr » Fri 06 Oct 2017, 19:44:38

Demand Dearth==Supply Glut.

You cornies have got to understand basic Econ101

It's only with other metrics (storage, market extrapolation, production shut-ins etc) that the two may be distinguished. Well each of those other metrics says . . . DEMAND DEARTH
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26506
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 06 Oct 2017, 20:29:42

pstarr wrote:Demand Dearth==Supply Glut.


Nope.

Supply glut == supply glut.

Image

Do we need to trot out the growing demand charts....agaaain?
Hubbert's curve, meet S-curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
asg70
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby cephalotus » Sat 07 Oct 2017, 10:49:32

Ultraquick charger at German Autobahn A8.

This project will be realized in 2018.

Image

144 chargers

24 ultra quick chargers (CCS) at 350kW each
120 quick chargers (CCS) at 50kW each

The 50kW quick charger will have a smart demand function to avoid unwanted peaks in the grid and improve usage of renawable energies.

Wasted heat will be used for the facilities nearby

https://www.solarserver.de/solar-magazi ... er-a8.html (in German)

Porche Mission E will be able to charge at 350kW CCS...

Image
Last edited by cephalotus on Sat 07 Oct 2017, 10:59:09, edited 1 time in total.
cephalotus
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue 18 Sep 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Germany

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby cephalotus » Sat 07 Oct 2017, 10:58:52

Plantagenet wrote:
...If you try to predict the future you see that the US is slowly transferring coal fired plants to NG plants, but China and India are both building coal fired plants at a rapid pace, as are other third world countries. Even Germany is still adding coal fired plants.


Things are changing quickly:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 51916.html

A recent study about ressource demand for a global change to electric vehicles, sadly in German (maybe you can use a translation tool?)

https://www.agora-verkehrswende.de/file ... er_WEB.pdf
cephalotus
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue 18 Sep 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Germany

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby cephalotus » Sat 07 Oct 2017, 11:31:14

vtsnowedin wrote: Only because it has to be because of the exhaust fumes cant be tolerated in the confined space. Open field AG if switched to electric would triple your unit cost of production. I'm not saying that won't happen when oil supplies decline but until they actually do there is no point in building any electric tractors or combines.


I don't know how you call those in English: ("Muldenkipper" in German)

Image

https://www.agrarheute.com/technik/welt ... gen-521758

weight is 45t empty and 110t fully loaded
800 PS
100% electric
600kWh battery

best thing is they will give power to the net because they get more energy from going downhill fully loaded than they need going uphill empty.

Okay, this is a special case, but you see what is possible even now.

This thing will generated electricity, while the former diesel version used around 50,000 to 100,000l diesel each year.
cephalotus
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue 18 Sep 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Germany

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 07 Oct 2017, 14:19:17

I ran over the damn power cord with my electric hedge trimmer. You should have seen the sparks! It just about welded the blade to the bar ! That man standing on the front of the machine? He'd turn into a black hood ornament.
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26506
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby cephalotus » Sat 07 Oct 2017, 15:55:40

Ever seen a CCS cable?

I assume it would be quite an effort to cut through one and than you need to miss the data lines (otherwise no power!).

Somehow you might be able to do something dangerous, if you try really hard. I recommend to set conventional car tire on fire during the refilling process instead. Seems to be a much easier success for some nice fire. Or just take the car and run it at 200km/h against the next wall.

But why in hell should anyone sane should do that?

The charging cable is definitely is not a "safety problem" ...
cephalotus
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue 18 Sep 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Germany

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 07 Oct 2017, 15:59:04

A charging cable for a monster truck. Really dumb. What if the monster truck has to back up and dump a load on its cable? How would you three-point park the thing? Come on. No
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26506
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 07 Oct 2017, 16:11:06

cephalotus wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote: Only because it has to be because of the exhaust fumes cant be tolerated in the confined space. Open field AG if switched to electric would triple your unit cost of production. I'm not saying that won't happen when oil supplies decline but until they actually do there is no point in building any electric tractors or combines.


I don't know how you call those in English: ("Muldenkipper" in German)

Image

https://www.agrarheute.com/technik/welt ... gen-521758

weight is 45t empty and 110t fully loaded
800 PS
100% electric
600kWh battery

best thing is they will give power to the net because they get more energy from going downhill fully loaded than they need going uphill empty.

Okay, this is a special case, but you see what is possible even now.

This thing will generated electricity, while the former diesel version used around 50,000 to 100,000l diesel each year.

There are no perpetual motion machines. Due to the losses of friction and inefficiency of conversion there is no way a machine can store enough energy going down a hill to propel itself back up to the top of the same hill.
You might have a significant savings here over the straight ICE diesel engine but it is nowhere near 100 percent.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Anti-Matter
Anti-Matter
 
Posts: 8113
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 07 Oct 2017, 18:48:24

pstarr wrote:I ran over the damn power cord with my electric hedge trimmer. You should have seen the sparks! It just about welded the blade to the bar ! That man standing on the front of the machine? He'd turn into a black hood ornament.


Ah, isn't that cute... You get the shitpost gold-star.

Image
Hubbert's curve, meet S-curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
asg70
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 07 Oct 2017, 19:02:12

asg70 wrote:
pstarr wrote:I ran over the damn power cord with my electric hedge trimmer. You should have seen the sparks! It just about welded the blade to the bar ! That man standing on the front of the machine? He'd turn into a black hood ornament.


Ah, isn't that cute... You get the shitpost gold-star.

Image

Grounds for a report and suspension. But as I am a kindly and somewhat Christian Gentleman (by nature, if not dogma) and don't engage in petty little games (like you), I will let this slip.

As much as my good sense tells me otherwise. We sure don't need such slovenly behavior at this place. Now do we, Asgy? :evil:
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26506
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 08 Oct 2017, 05:00:42

cephalotus wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote: Only because it has to be because of the exhaust fumes cant be tolerated in the confined space. Open field AG if switched to electric would triple your unit cost of production. I'm not saying that won't happen when oil supplies decline but until they actually do there is no point in building any electric tractors or combines.


I don't know how you call those in English: ("Muldenkipper" in German)

Image

https://www.agrarheute.com/technik/welt ... gen-521758

weight is 45t empty and 110t fully loaded
800 PS
100% electric
600kWh battery

best thing is they will give power to the net because they get more energy from going downhill fully loaded than they need going uphill empty.

Okay, this is a special case, but you see what is possible even now.

This thing will generated electricity, while the former diesel version used around 50,000 to 100,000l diesel each year.


I would call that a mining truck, a specialized kind of large dump truck where the bed tilts to release the cargo load.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14096
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

PreviousNext

Return to Energy Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

cron