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Antarctica 2017

Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 04 Jul 2017, 06:54:13

from my link above:

"The fuse is lit,” says Blankenship. “We’re just running around mapping where all the bombs are."
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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 04 Jul 2017, 07:02:06

It’s Raining in Antarctica while Trump slashes Climate Science funding
by Dahr Jamail at Truth-Out.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/4113 ... ce-funding


parts of Antarctica are literally beginning to turn green, as scientists there are finding a four- to five-fold increase in the amount of moss growth on the ice continent's northern peninsula.

Even more stunning news comes from Antarctica in a study published in the June 15 issue of the journal Nature Communications which revealed that over an area of West Antarctica, scientists were stunned to find rainfall and a melt area larger than the size of Texas in 2016.

Yes, it is now raining in Antarctica.


Anthropogenic climate disruption has created stunning major developments in the lives of the Earth’s plants and animals over recent weeks.


A recently published paper in the journal Scientific Reports shows how ACD is disrupting the timing of dozens of songbird species. Timing is critical for migratory birds, because if they arrive too late they only get the tail end of the spring’s insect supply and have trouble finding nesting spots and mates. On the other hand, if they arrive too early, they will arrive in temperatures colder than they are prepared to deal with. Yet, ACD is causing spring to arrive earlier in eastern US states and later in the west, disrupting the timing of dozens of bird species.

This is threatening the survival of many species that are currently popular in many people’s backyards. “The long-term concern is that this growing mismatch can lead to population declines,” Stephen Mayor, the study’s primary researcher said in an interview.
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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 05 Jul 2017, 00:09:47

dohboi wrote:It’s Raining in Antarctica while Trump slashes Climate Science funding
by Dahr Jamail at Truth-Out.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/4113 ... ce-funding]


Rain in Antarctica----thats nothing. Steven Hawking now says Trump is going to "push the earth over the brink" and turn the Earth into a Venus-like planet where rains of sulfuric acid exterminate all life

stephen-hawking-donald-trump-paris-climate-change-agreement-earth-brink-global-warming-

All the other leaders of the world must be breathing a big sigh of relief. As long as Trump is getting blamed for everything then the other world leaders are completely off the hook---they don't have to actually do anything to lower CO2 emissions. :lol:

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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 09 Jul 2017, 10:51:12

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... pdate.html

Scientists fear that two crucial anchor points will be lost.


According to Dr. Rignot, the stability of the whole ice shelf is threatened.

“You have these two anchors on the side of Larsen C that play a critical role in holding the ice shelf where it is,” he said. “If the shelf is getting thinner, it will be more breakable, and it will lose contact with the ice rises.”

If the shelf front disconnects from the ice rises, a rapid retreat will be triggered.


Ice rises are islands overridden by the ice shelf, allowing them to shoulder more of the weight of the shelf. Scientists have yet to determine the extent of thinning around the Bawden and Gipps ice rises, though Dr. Rignot noted that the Bawden ice rise was much more vulnerable.

We’re not even sure how it’s hanging on there,” he said. “But if you take away Bawden, the whole shelf will feel it.”
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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 13:54:02

New piece by rs: https://robertscribbler.com/2017/07/11/ ... -recorded/

Antarctica’s 4th Largest Ice Shelf is About to Melt Back to its Smallest Area Ever Recorded

... Antarctica could be tipping toward instability far faster than previously imagined.

... the Larsen C ice shelf is about to shatter off a very large 5,800 square mile ice berg even as several smaller ice bergs also appear ready to form. This event, which is now imminent in the coming days, weeks, or at most, months, will break the Larsen C ice shelf back to its smallest area ever recorded even as it marks a period of increased instability and risk of ice shelf loss.

For recent scientific assessments show that Larsen C is lowering in the water — an indication that the shelf is thinning. Furthermore, when the gigantic, Delaware-sized, ice berg and its smaller siblings break off they will take with them two outer sections of a stabilizing compression arch. The compression arch, somewhat like the arch of a flying buttress, helps to balance structural stresses for the ice shelf.

If it were to be compromised in total, according to glacier scientists like Dr. Eric Rignot, Larsen C would soon be adding its name to the list of various ice shelves around the world that have already fallen due to the warming airs and waters produced by human-caused climate change.
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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 12 Jul 2017, 07:53:18

and...it's gone!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/12/giant-antarctic-iceberg-breaks-free-of-larsen-c-ice-shelf

Iceberg twice size of Luxembourg breaks off Antarctic ice shelf

Satellite data confirms ‘calving’ of trillion-tonne, 5,800 sq km iceberg from the Larsen C ice shelf, dramatically altering the landscape


A giant iceberg twice the size of Luxembourg has broken off an ice shelf on the Antarctic peninsula and is now adrift in the Weddell Sea.

Reported to be “hanging by a thread” last month, the trillion-tonne iceberg was found to have split off from the Larsen C segment of the Larsen ice shelf on Wednesday morning after scientists examined the latest satellite data from the area.

The Larsen C ice shelf is more than 12% smaller in area than before the iceberg broke off – or “calved” – an event that researchers say has changed the landscape of the Antarctic peninsula and left the Larsen C ice shelf at its lowest extent ever recorded.
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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby Subjectivist » Wed 12 Jul 2017, 12:59:27

It will be interesting to see where it goes. Right now its Antarctic winter so it is likely not able to move fast through the ice pack, but Atarctic spring starts the melt down there in two months. I hope they track it constantly so I, and other interested people, can see where it goes and how long it takes to melt.
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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 04 Nov 2017, 20:23:59

Found this stuff elsewhere. The thread is about “Oceans Concerns” and for the most part it is the typical fight with deniers. Then around post 139 Snow Petral starts to chime in

Sorry for parachuting this in as I’m doing, just thought some would appreciate it

Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
What is interesting from a physics perspective, is that all that cold energy released by greater surface area from broken up glaciers and sea ice needs to go somewhere.
If I recall correctly it takes something like 7 years for the sinking cold water to resurface somewhere along the coast of East Antarctica. We were pulling arctic water up from 800 meters just off the Mertz, Ninnis, and Totten glaciers at the beginning of the year from the icebreaker Aurora Australis.

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I had the pleasure this year of working with a bunch of very talented and devoted scientists around some of the fastest melting glaciers in East Antarctica. We did krill sampling, ice sampling. And thousands of deep water CTD ocean samples. During my time aboard the Aurora Australis we had a chance to talk about the science with experts in their feilds, and Talented PHD students. Much of it was way over my head, and when asked simple questions most of them mumbled about just how complex the whole system really was.

It seemed to me that these guys (and girls) were operating at a level so far above what I have seen on forums and websites that they just groaned when I tried to get a simple answer out of them about what seemed to me to have been a straightforward question. I guess for them its like when some well meaning novice sailor asks me a technical but broad and nuanced boat question, like what boat type is best, what anchor to get, or what rig is best... I could talk for a few hours about each topic, and most of it would go over their heads.... No absolute consensus would be possible because there are so many variables.

Here is a short video of the trip.
short video of the trip.



I was driving the small boats, shifting scientists and cargo. But working with the scientists really made me respect the dedication, integrity, intelligence and specialized knowledge they had. I guess I just wanted to put a plug in for these remarkable people. It must be terrible for them seeing their work being torn to pieces or misrepresented by people with no (or minimal) qualifications in those areas of study.
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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 04 Nov 2017, 20:26:17

More

Yep exactly, I think it's important that we try to understand the issues and explain them to others as best we can, but its always going to be a gross simplification of a complex subject. That is fine until someone goes and takes this simplification and then twists, distorts, uses only half the story or denies it to suit their own ends.

To use the earlier example of the penguins dying due to thick ice. I assume it refers to the Cape Denison area events over the last 7 years or so. This case is due to the tip of the mertz glacier breaking off and a large berg B09B grounding in the middle of the Bay. This drastically changed the area. I sailed my 33 foot yacht right into Boat Harbour in Commonwealth bay in 2006/7. we had to negotiate lots of heavy sea ice but no fast ice and a clear inshore lead.
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Now not even the biggest icebreaker can get closer than about 60nm from the place I had my tiny yacht due to persistent fast ice trapped by B09B . This has decimated the Adele penguin population. The reasons for this chain of events are complex, in some regions ice is getting thicker, others much thinner. We were able to get the Aurora into a few spots that had not ever been open to a ship. There seemed to be a pretty clear agreement that the area was changing quickly, climate wise.

This is the same area now, 60 or so miles out to sea.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.


This is Akademic Shokalski, stuck in ice east of the Mertz glacier. A rather silly place to put a ship with anything other than a perfect forecast, but due to the fast ice in Commonwealth bay they were forced east to try to land passengers with a very poor forcast. Predictably it did not end well. I know a fair bit about it since both my parents were on board at the time. They were both horrified that the ship was putting herself into such danger during days before she got trapped. None of their team went ashore, considering it far to dangerous. luckily no one was lost.

A fair portion of our ice sampling work was related to the decay and salt water flows under melting ice, and the way it also concentrates iron. We had to be extremely careful not to contaminate the sites with any iron from the ship or our zodiacs. It was dangerous work, and we had to abort a few four hour digs and return to the ship due to the ice moving and in one case trapping us a fair distance from the ship.

It seems like in the Southern Ocean iron is the limiting factor, so understanding the iron cycle is critical to understanding the oceans ability to sustain life, and absorb CO2. https://phys.org/news/2014-03-southe...imate.html#jCp
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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 06 Nov 2017, 15:49:14

Thanks to aslr at asif for this, and file under "What Happens in the Antarctic Doesn't (necessarily) Stay in the Antarctic"

the following link leads to the University of Alaska Fairbank's website focused on Lake Elgygytgn research, and the extract following the link is from an article Posted on February 4th, 2014 by Laura Nielsen on "Inter-hemispheric climate coupling". The extract emphasizes that repeatedly paleo-collapses of the WAIS resulted in subsequent Arctic amplification, due both to changes in ocean currents (in keeping with Hansen's ice-climate feedback), and to increases in sea level pushing more warm Pacific water through the Bering St. into the Arctic Ocean.


http://frontierscientists.com/tag/lake-elgygytgyn/

Extract: "Antarctica and the Arctic
Climate at the North and South pole are connected. Sediment records from Antarctica show that the West Antarctic ice sheet melted at various times in history. Following many of those events, the Arctic warmed. These recurring intervals of paired warming show that climate in the two hemispheres is linked – it’s called inter-hemispheric climate coupling.

“When the West Antarctic ice sheet pulls back we see a corresponding warmth in the high latitudes again, probably affecting the size of the Greenland ice sheet with major implications for changes in sea level,” says Julie Brigham-Grette. “Our results mesh with what glaciologists are seeing today. Seven of the 12 major ice shelves around the Antarctic are melting or are gone. We suspect the tipping point for the gradual de-glaciation of Greenland and the Arctic may be lower than glaciologists once thought.”

Complex systems
Earth is a complicated place. We can’t explain past warming using only orbital dynamics or levels of Carbon Dioxide. Scientists affiliated with the project outlined some past events that might explain the rapid warming the sediment records show occurred in both Antarctica and the Arctic around similar times.

When you imagine Antarctica, the picture includes large ice shelves that hang off the rocky edge of the ice-covered continent. Normally that ice keeps nearby ocean water very cold. The cold water travels along currents toward the north Pacific where it wells up to the surface. Ocean circulation can be affected, though. If Antarctic ice sheets disintegrate or melt away, they no longer enforce cold water currents that journey to the Arctic. Instead, surface ocean waters in the Arctic become warmer.

When Antarctica’s ice sheets disintegrate the ocean gains more water and sea levels rise globally. The Bering Strait usually restricts how much warm surface water approaches the Arctic from the south, but higher sea levels would mean warm surface water didn’t have to squeeze through such a narrow space, letting more warm water past the Bering Strait into the Arctic Ocean.

Either way, a warmer ocean means higher temperatures and more rainfall for the Arctic, which impacts paleoclimatology and sea ice history. Grasping the climate connections between the hemispheres gives us insight into our near future."

Also, I seem to remember a reference with climate model results with freshwater hosing that also indicates that a collapse of the WAIS would push relatively warm Pacific water into the Arctic Basin, but I cannot remember where I posted this reference .
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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 06 Nov 2017, 20:34:22

The East Antarctic Ice Sheet, which has been pretty stable, is now starting to be affected by global warming. The flow of the Totten Glacier has speeded up by about 5% over the last few years

sleeping-ice-giants-stir-east-antarcticas-totten-glacier-accelerates-toward-southern-ocean

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Faster glacier flow means more ice mass reaching the ocean means increasing contributions to sea level rise.

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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 06 Nov 2017, 20:41:02

Great graphic and link...although about very bad news.
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Re: Antarctica 2017

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 06 Nov 2017, 21:05:31

Now that Antarctic Spring has Sprung I am wondering if that chunk of ice shelf that broke loose last May is going to drift north and melt. The thing is tabular icebergs can last up to a decade if they stay in the close in circulation zone, or they can go as fast as a couple months if they drift far into the warmer zones in the Drake Passage.
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