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Depression

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

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Re: Depression

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 17 Jun 2017, 06:05:24

I contend depression is one of the essential states of being human, as valid as laughter or tears, a natural state labelled a disease by a post post modern neo evangelist eutopian sensitivity where life is supposed to be happy all the time.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby dissident » Sat 17 Jun 2017, 10:28:39

SeaGypsy wrote:I contend depression is one of the essential states of being human, as valid as laughter or tears, a natural state labelled a disease by a post post modern neo evangelist eutopian sensitivity where life is supposed to be happy all the time.


Being happy all the time is extremely abnormal. Being depressed all the time is not good either. The natural state is some sort of vascillation between the extremes with most of the time spent in a neutral state (for example one like occurs during work where the individual is neither happy nor sad).

The above biological reality is denied by modern PC lunatics who insist that education and work of any sort have to be "fun". This lunacy sets people up for depression.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 17 Jun 2017, 11:12:23

Yup. To me a basically healthy mental baseline equals being busy achieving steps towards realistic goals, balanced with me time & family time. My barometer is- if I don't have a moment or two of bliss, usually at the first light & dawn, which i see every workday, something is out of whack. As a full time truck driver, Australia's most dangerous job, if I'm getting upset with other drivers, im not right for work. Happy all the time is of course a nonsense. Chemically impossible.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 17 Jun 2017, 11:14:30

Yes, good observations on the natural (normal) mood fluctuations and reactions in humans. It is similar to fear. Too much and too often in an incommensurate manner is a sign of mental health issues. Just like the total inverse of that points to a problem. In general in my opinion, moods should match circumstances that reasonably should induce such moods and emotions/moods should be under control in mentally healthy people
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Re: Depression

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 17 Jun 2017, 11:20:17

Depth of education i believe it used to be referred to. In a world full of signal overload, some very important human wisdom, fundamental living awareness skills seem to be vanishing.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 17 Jun 2017, 13:07:09

I don't know the origins, maybe barometric pressure or something even more esoteric, but I sense even in the wildlife mood swings shifting day to day. Sometimes the spider monkeys are animated, the air is crisp, there is an expectation in the air, other days the energy is low and morose, this is not projection on my part onto the wildlife but something intrinsic that you can feel shifting on a day to day basis. How active or subdued the birds are also shifts beyond their normal feeding and mating behavior.

I also think some depression is natural and felt by more than just humans.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby jedrider » Sat 17 Jun 2017, 13:51:40

Whatever the cause of depression, if it affects your decision making, get help, get drugs.

The mind IS plastic. Whatever the cause, it develops reinforcements that could be harmful. Drugs are a quick way out and, maybe, in some cases the only way out.

I suffer from variety of issues, low energy, confusion, maybe I drink too much. I'm seeking to remedy these, maybe, with a dietary change currently, but I take some medications for ADHD as well. I did a bunch of stupid things from the confusion aspect. It can cost you a lot. I think monitoring ones situation is crucial, even self-monitoring is important, though difficult to recognize unless you are familar with the signs before they get out of hand. I use to think that people took medications for depression,etc that were completely unnecessary, but I've come around on that.

To me, I don't care about the happiness or sadness part of it, but if it affects your ability to make good decisions, I would take it very seriously.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 17 Jun 2017, 15:04:22

IMHO it's wrong to call nurse happy/was with depression. We all get expressed occasionally. "Depression" as an illness is (or should be) a chronic state where one does not have the normal fluctuations.

In my own case I was never diagnosed with depression but found that taking Ibuprophen for inflammation had a significant knock on effect on my mood. I became more patient, less irritable, I regained some emotional resilience and flexibility. Clearly a very mild form of depression but noticeable in its absense.

There may well be something to telling youngsters they need to find their dream job and follow their muse that leads them to unrealistic expectations. And perhaps some of them do feel cheated. I try to tell anyone who will listen "Work isn't supposed to be fun, that's why we pay you to do it, if it was fun we would be selling you tickets for the ride." Some folks get that intrinsically, some can be taught, others are unteachable. I see this as something different from depression, stupid or lazy maybe.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby Cog » Sun 18 Jun 2017, 04:34:36

My father suffered from the real deal depression for a few years. The kind that incapacitates you and you curl up in bed type. Brain chemistry is a very weird thing. He didn't suffer from depression all the time I knew him until he retired. I'm thinking that he was ill-suited to retirement and the normal brain chemistry he had when working was no longer there when he quit working. After several severe bouts with depression and the appropriate medication he returned to somewhat of a normal life until he died.

I try to keep very active now that I've quit working. Walking, reading, making my daily sojourn to market to get something to cook for meals. Stay active to the extent you can, seems to work well for some.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 18 Jun 2017, 05:17:44

Cog,
That fits with how I understand people. Because we are a social animal it is very important for us to feel like we are doing something for the hive. If we are not, if we feel useless to others, then we tend to turn ourselves off.

There are, as always, outliers. But that seems the basic trend.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 18 Jun 2017, 07:33:03

Newfie wrote:Cog,
That fits with how I understand people. Because we are a social animal it is very important for us to feel like we are doing something for the hive. If we are not, if we feel useless to others, then we tend to turn ourselves off.

There are, as always, outliers. But that seems the basic trend.


This is relevant to the suburbia thread and also the inordinate importance the media has in defining culture in America today. When you don't know your neighbors, when your daily interactions are going to big box stores where you don't personally know anyone, when your work place is impersonal, when your commute is alone in your vehicle, etc. etc.... then where do you fulfill that social need of being part of the hive?? For many it is the media stream, the digital stream, etc.

Many Americans suffer from cultural deprivation. This is a form of poverty.

Sometimes when we critique American culture like this some find these words arrogant and condescending. The first response is to accuse the messenger of being an arrogant schmuck.....but then the truth does have a habit of creeping in and nagging at you.

Which is the ultimate purpose of communicating this, that you get off your complacent ass and start reaching out directly in your community relating to real people instead of sitting on your fat ass on the computer all depressed and sour and angry about the state of affairs we find ourselves in.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 18 Jun 2017, 08:09:53

I think this sense of depression also correlates with the sense of powerlessness so many feel around the world at present. Especially, to influence the larger ongoing macro trends and the political/decision making arena. On Facebook, I am a member of what you could term spiritual groups. There, we agree that ultimately the changes that matter and will matter occur within each one of us. When I hear Newfie or Kaiser state that we are sort of pre-programmed, I tend to object. We have a range of reactions and modes of being. We can alleviate our depression by controlling what we can within ourselves and thus empowering ourselves. And each one of us doing so, could effect real positive change in the world
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Re: Depression

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 18 Jun 2017, 09:16:38

Ibon wrote:Which is the ultimate purpose of communicating this, that you get off your complacent ass and start reaching out directly in your community relating to real people instead of sitting on your fat ass on the computer all depressed and sour and angry about the state of affairs we find ourselves in.


Err, you can do that last line, to the satisfaction of all, and still be, and remain, clinically and terribly depressed. Its not that its a bad idea, but I think yall need to reign back the shaming game going on here. Maybe if someone has a very mild variety or is just lucky (or seriously unlucky) it would be enough; but for many, if you want out of that black hole, you're going to have to talk to a doctor of some sort.

edit: grammar
Last edited by AgentR11 on Sun 18 Jun 2017, 09:36:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 18 Jun 2017, 09:20:48

onlooker wrote:We can alleviate our depression by controlling what we can within ourselves and thus empowering ourselves. And each one of us doing so, could effect real positive change in the world


Here's kinda my point, there are many who have gone past a point, to where there is nothing left that can be controlled within themselves to create empowerment. Whether its chemistry or circumstance, its easy to wave a hand and say, "if you'd only just ...........", but unfortunately it just doesn't work that way.
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Re: Depression

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 18 Jun 2017, 09:33:23

Ibon wrote:where do you fulfill that social need of being part of the hive?? For many it is the media stream, the digital stream, etc.


Where I take issue with your analysis is that Suburbia is not the cause of the death of community. There's no more community engagement in the city than the suburbs. If anything the city fosters more isolation (breeding Travis Bickle types). In the Suburbs maybe you don't talk to your neighbor, but you recognize their faces, sometimes hear their marital arguments over the fence, see their kids playing basketball. In the city, population density anonymizes people. This is one reason why there's more crime and vice in the city. There's that much less of a social stigma when you can screw someone and never cross paths with them again. It fosters unrestrained individualism (i.e. Sex and the City or Seinfeld style narcissism).

The reason why there's less community today is because the things we need no longer come from nearby. Local small businesses for core essentials is dead. No more cobblers and blacksmiths and local farms. Everything is supplied by big international corporations. And we voted for this with our wallets. We voted for ADM and Cargill and Monsanto by buying our cheap corn-flakes. We voted for Japan in the 80s by buying Nintendos and Walkmen. We voted for china by shopping at Wal-Mart. Now we vote for Jeff Bezos by shopping at Amazon and drive Sears towards bankruptcy. There is no conspiracy. There is just the net average of the everyday decisions we all make. People tend to opt for the cushiest, laziest lifestyle they can afford.

At the same time, humans are and will forever be a tribal species. We're meant to function in small bands that work together under constant resource scarcity. When a tribal member doesn't function in the group, they are shunned and expelled. So it's a rather ruthless double-edged sword, but that's how we're wired. The flow of civilization empowers individualism, which is all well and good up to a point, but leaves one wanting to find a sense of belonging in a tribe. This is why gangs exist. Why cults exist. Why fandom or hobby groups exist. And yes, why ideological silos (like peak oil doomerism) exist.
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