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THE Methane Hydrate Recovery Thread

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Methane Hydrate Recovery Thread

Unread postby pstarr » Fri 19 May 2017, 11:56:18

Thanks for bringing this up Tanada. I appreciate the opportunity to engage in constructive debate on the important subject of calthrate phase-change
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Re: THE Methane Hydrate Recovery Thread

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 20 May 2017, 10:01:57

ROCKMAN wrote:T - "...which makes expensive Methane Hydrate possibly price competitive." Even the folks experimenting with MH extraction don't even offer a fantasy based possibility of commercial production let alone the economics. So why do you think the possibility that MH production has any possibility of being price competitive with LNG? Until someone develops a pilot project (even if it's rediculously expensive) there's doesn't seem to be much point in discussing the MH...IMHO.

At the moment it seems that China best hope for the future rest with wind and solar. Which is why it's probably spend hundreds of times more there then on MH research.

Don't be so harsh Rock! :)
16,000 cubic meters a day sounds like a pretty serious pilot project to me. It will be interesting to see what their per unit cost is at the surface.
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Re: THE Methane Hydrate Recovery Thread

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 20 May 2017, 13:48:26

vt - I take it you didn't actually read the article. They aren't producing any NG let alone 16,000 meters per day. They tested at a RATE OF 16,000 mpd but did not specify how long they tested. Might have only been a hour or two. They are guessing at least 8 more years before they actually have a producible well:

"It is the first time that production rates actually seem promising," he says. "But it's thought that only by 2025 at the earliest we might be able to look at realistic commercial options." An average of 16,000 cubic meters of gas with high purity have been extracted per day in the Shenhu area of the South China Sea, according to Chinese media."

And no hint at what such a hypothetical well would cost not the $billions to lay the pipelines out there to transport it to the bank. As I said: no indication at all that the process could come close the competing with LNG even if it increased to its record high that was about 3X the current price.

IOW we're still years away from reaching the fantasy level of expectations. LOL.
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Re: THE Methane Hydrate Recovery Thread

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 20 May 2017, 17:51:57

ROCKMAN wrote:vt - I take it you didn't actually read the article. They aren't producing any NG let alone 16,000 meters per day. They tested at a RATE OF 16,000 mpd but did not specify how long they tested. Might have only been a hour or two. They are guessing at least 8 more years before they actually have a producible well:

"It is the first time that production rates actually seem promising," he says. "But it's thought that only by 2025 at the earliest we might be able to look at realistic commercial options." An average of 16,000 cubic meters of gas with high purity have been extracted per day in the Shenhu area of the South China Sea, according to Chinese media."

And no hint at what such a hypothetical well would cost not the $billions to lay the pipelines out there to transport it to the bank. As I said: no indication at all that the process could come close the competing with LNG even if it increased to its record high that was about 3X the current price.

IOW we're still years away from reaching the fantasy level of expectations. LOL.

No Rock the article I read was very specific and said they extracted 16,000 cm per day for several days not just a short test rate. Of course that might be an error in reporting or deliberate government propaganda.
Also the Chinese among others, RD Shell for one, are working on liquidizing NG into LNG at sea so they would not be building pipelines out to the field. Apparently some of these floating processing projects have been cut or put on hold by the increased production of fracked gas in the US so it would not take too much of a change in supply or demand to make them viable again.
I wonder about the process they are using to separate the water from the gas. Bringing it up to the surface and letting it depressurize and warm up works of course but I wonder if they could get it to LNG cheaper by taking advantage of the 1775 psi bottom pressure the 4000 ft depth of ocean has at that depth.
And 2025 is not that far away so a development plan that brings it online in 2025 might well line up with world supply and demand realities then.
The Chinese must think it has possibilities or they wouldn't have invested as much money as they have.
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Re: THE Methane Hydrate Recovery Thread

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 20 May 2017, 19:00:50

Gotta agree with the industry guy. The article makes no mention how they gathered the calthrate slush off the ocean floor. The frosty ice was on the ocean floor . . . than it was on the ocean surface. How was said transition completed without incurring depressurization and subsequent evaporation?
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Re: THE Methane Hydrate Recovery Thread

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 20 May 2017, 21:53:53

vt - Thanks. All I read was It's link. Here are much more details:

http://www.mining.com/china-successfull ... south-sea/

But still no tech info or cost estimate. And I still have a big question of how cavitating a large hole hole at that depth will be stable. Unlike pulling NG out of the pores in the rock is very different the mining a solid.
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