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Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil east

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:34:55

Rock, Well, I'll tell you what is happening. Global warming. Your industry has chosen to ignore warnings offered by climate scientists decades ago. But what you can't ignore are the effects. Hope your infrastructure and your customer livelihoods can dodge climate change "bullets" each and every future year from now on. Furthermore, Canadian tar sands are expensive to extract, and residents of Quebec may not be too happy about a pipeline traversing their state especially if they know that oil prices are not going to decrease ever again.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 22 Aug 2013, 20:30:26

Canada's oil pipelines will not build a nation - they are a great swindle

The defeat has been barely noticed by the media. Amidst the rolling hills of Quebec's lush farm and wine region, the small town of Dunham has beaten the oil giants.

It's here that Enbridge and Portland-Montreal Pipe Line – owned by Imperial Oil, Suncor and Shell – have been trying to construct a pumping station to pipe heavy crude over a nearby mountain range. The infrastructure is integral to Enbridge's plans to ship Alberta tar sands, via Quebec, to the eastern coast of the United States.

But when Enbridge quietly initiated this project in 2008, a coalition of local farmers, residents and environmentalists formed in opposition. They marched, launched legal challenges, and organized Canada's first UK-inspired climate camp – which ended in promises of civil disobedience.

The oil companies fought back in court. Enbridge dropped the project's initial name – "Trailbreaker" – to fool residents into thinking they had abandoned their broader plans to ship Alberta tar sands. The federal government even dispatched spies to intimidate community organizers. But ground down by Dunham's efforts, the companies withdrew last month. They still want a pumping station in Quebec – they just won't be able to build it in this town.

The triumph may herald the fate of two massive tar sands pipeline projects that loom over central and eastern Canada. The first is Enbridge's now-unnamed plan, which involves reversing a network of east-to-west pipelines that currently carry African and European oil. This would bring 300,000 barrels of Alberta tar sands daily to the US seaboard. The other is TransCanada's recently announced Energy East, a $12bn project to convert a natural gas pipeline and build an extension in the provinces of Quebec and New Brunswick. It could ship as many as 1.1m barrels per day to Canada's coast.



In the face of mounting opposition, the Quebec government has promised a public consultation on the Enbridge pipeline, though not yet on TransCanada. While it will prove an opportunity for dissent, the consultation is a charade: it will determine not whether the pipeline project should proceed, but on what terms. Rarely has a nationalist Quebec premier caved in such brazen ways to the interests of oil corporations and the federal government. It leaves only one question: how long before Quebecers call for her head?

If the signs are correct, the victory over the oil barons being celebrated in Dunham, Quebec won't be the last.


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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 23 Aug 2013, 13:38:44

Enbridge Inc. has posted higher second-quarter profits as new pipelines in the oil sands region of northeastern Alberta came into service and the Seaway pipeline to the U.S. Gulf Coast contributed higher earnings. And this happening while the lack of the border crossing section of Keystone XL hasn't been approved. How can that be? So many posts praising the POTUS for hindering oil sands development. BTW: latest projections are more oil sands production will be imported into the US during 2013 then during any previous year in history. Hindrance? I suppose that must be in the eyes of the beholder.

Regarding the Energy East P/L that will carry 1.1 million b/d of oil sands production to eastern refineries as well as exports overseas: TransCanada said it expects the Energy East project to proceed. Alberta and New Brunswick each said Thursday that they support the proposal. Quebec's position is unclear, and a spokesman for that province declined comment. Insiders have commented that there's not much question that Quebec won't give approval but what they'll get in return. The transport of $35 billion of oil thru the province every year allows for a significant amount of potential sharing I suppose.
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Wed 26 Apr 2017, 16:16:13

And now an update on moving oil westward. Or, more specifically, the plan to ship US oil (that happens to be sitting under Alberta) to China and points west:

Kinder Morgan Canada Files for IPO to Raise Trans Mountain Funds

Reuters - Kinder Morgan Inc said its Canadian unit filed a prospectus for an initial public offering of restricted voting shares, to help finance its $5.48 billion Trans Mountain expansion project. The Trans Mountain expansion will nearly triple the size of Kinder Morgan's existing pipeline and ship 890,000 barrels a day of crude from Alberta to the British Columbia coast. It was approved by the Canadian government last year despite opposition from environmental and aboriginal groups."
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 26 Apr 2017, 16:18:39

I love these moldy oldy threads.

Everything that was old is new again

And its mostly just as wrong now as it was then.

Cheers!

"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 14 May 2017, 13:26:30

P - Yep, like the old oil sand push is once again becoming the new oil ands push. Similar to what happened in the US shale play. During high oil price periods the less efficient skimmed by. Drop prices and the run like scalded dogs. But that makes room for the better skilled to move in, buy on the cheap and apply the better approaches they have developed. Which takes us back to the silly idea a play, any play, is economic above a specific oil price and not below it. That completely ignores the reality that profitability is as much determined (and sometimes more) by the company then the price of oil:

Reuters - Even as the world's largest energy companies exit Canada's high-cost oil sands the country's top producer Suncor Energy is lining up its next phase of growth in the world's third largest crude reserves. The preliminary plans for new projects in remote northern Alberta follow a stream of multi-billion dollar deals in which international oil majors sold off oil sands assets to Canadian producers, who are betting technology and economies of scale will make the region competitive with other plays globally. Suncor will file a regulatory application for its 160,000 barrel-per-day Lewis project later this year, and in March received approval for the 80,000 bpd Meadow Creek East plant. It also plans to file an application for the 40,000 bpd Meadow Creek West project later this year.

The company has not yet taken a final investment decision on any of the projects but if sanctioned they would boost the company's current output of 680,000-720,000 bpd by more than a third. In total, Canada produces around 4 million bpd. Its strategy for future growth relies on building identical smaller thermal plants to help cut costs. This is how future development across the industry is expected to look, as the exit of the majors has drawn a line for now under the megaprojects that drove the industry's rapid expansion over the past 15 years. Suncor will add new plants able to produce between 30,000-40,000 barrels per day every 12-18 months

Of course those fools at Suncor Energy are just as ignorant of thermodynamics as the soon-to-be-dead US shale players that have planned for an $84 BILLION expansion.
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby Midnight Oil » Tue 16 May 2017, 07:46:16

A bestselling investigative journalist takes a tour of the Alberta oil and gas industry, revealing how Canada’s richest province is squandering our chance for a sustainable future.

In its desperate search for oil and gas riches, Alberta is destroying itself. As the world teeters on the edge of catastrophic climate change, Alberta plunges ahead with uncontrolled development of its fossil fuels, levelling its northern Boreal forest to get at the oil sands, and carpet-bombing its southern half with tens of thousands of gas wells. In so doing, it is running out of water, destroying its range land, wiping out its forests and wildlife and spewing huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, adding to global warming at a rate that is unrivalled in Canada or almost anywhere else in the world. It’s digging, drilling and blasting its way to oblivion, becoming the ultimate symbol of Canada’s – and the world’s – pathological will to self-destruct.

Nowhere has the world seen such colossal environmental destruction as is being wreaked on Alberta. At one point the province even went so far as to consider a scientist’s idea of nuking its underbelly to get at the tar sands. Stupid to the Last Drop looks at the increasingly violent geopolitical forces that are gathering as the world’s gas and oil dwindle and the Age of Oil begins its inevitable slide towards oblivion. As Canadians deplete their energy reserves, selling them off to Americans at bargain-basement prices, no thought is given to conservation or the long-term needs of the nation.

In this powerful polemic, William Marsden journeys across the heart of a province seized by the destructive forces of greed, power and the energy business, and envisions a very bleak future

http://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books ... 676979145/

Seems there is a lot of stupid in the world today.
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby Cog » Tue 16 May 2017, 08:30:47

Turning unproductive land into money is how us capitalists roll. Get on board or get left behind.
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby Midnight Oil » Tue 16 May 2017, 09:28:27

Is that how you define "productive"? Yes, you are going to be the one rolled in the end by predatory " Capitalism". Right now the locals, Native American people, and the the degraded landscape, along with the climate disputation is getting hit.
What goes around, comes around.
Now go ahead a count that 15 cents you been fixated on so much.
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 16 May 2017, 10:08:56

Midnight Oil wrote:In its desperate search for oil and gas riches, Alberta is destroying itself. As the world teeters on the edge of catastrophic climate change, Alberta plunges ahead with uncontrolled development of its fossil fuels, leveling its northern Boreal forest to get at the oil sands, and carpet-bombing its southern half with tens of thousands of gas wells. In so doing, it is running out of water, destroying its range land, wiping out its forests and wildlife and spewing huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, adding to global warming at a rate that is unrivaled in Canada or almost anywhere else in the world. It’s digging, drilling and blasting its way to oblivion, becoming the ultimate symbol of Canada’s – and the world’s – pathological will to self-destruct.


Very poetic image made from words, but the reality is greatly at odds with the word picture drawn. Leveling of the boreal forest is taking place all across Canada to feed the EU demand for wood pellets they burn in place of coal as part of their 'green' biofuel mandates. The amount of CO2 released by Alberta is trivial compared to that released by NYC, or Paris, or London. Funny thing is those ten thousand natural gas wells are the same source of energy being praised by greens all over the USA and EU because they have half the carbon intensity of Coal.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby Midnight Oil » Tue 16 May 2017, 11:26:15

What are you saying? Perhaps first you may take Marsden book and give it a complete read.
Here is another source to back up that statement

According to data from Global Forest Watch, an online mapping platform that tracks tree cover loss and gain in near-real time, industrial development and forest fires in Canada’s tar sands region has cleared or degraded 775,500 hectares (almost two million acres) of boreal forest since the year 2000 (Map A). That’s an area more than six times the size of New York City. If the tar sands extraction boom continues, as many predict, we can expect forest loss to increase

http://www.wri.org/blog/2014/07/tar-san ... aten-world ’s-largest-boreal-forest

As far as the wood pellet industry, apparently just makes matters even worse.

Natural gas being praised by Greens, not if they read the complete life cycle

Furthermore, all those power plants that burn natural gas will still spew CO2, albeit less than the equivalent coal-fired power plant. In a world aimed at zero emissions, that reduction is not good enough ultimately. In fact, the more than 1,000 gigawatts of natural gas–fired power plants built around the world would spew roughly 300 billion metric tons of CO2 if operated over the next 50 years—or more than half of the world's remaining carbon budget. Exceeding that budget may lock in the worst of climate change, whether fast sea level rise or extreme weather. Cheap natural gas may even slow the shift away from heavy industry in the U.S.: New fertilizer plants and chemical plants have already been built as a result of cheap and abundant natural gas and new steel plants may not be far behind. Finally, natural gas can leak, adding methane to the atmosphere, which also exacerbates global warming.


https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... pollution/

Looks as if we got ourselves in another fine mess, doesn't it
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 16 May 2017, 11:41:22

New York City is a blip, about 120,000 acres. Corn chips grow on strip-mined prairie, about 96,000,000 acres. White bread accounts for another 100 million acres. Soybeans likewise. Cotton. Clear cut forests for timber. The tar sands leak upwards anyway.

We need to drive to the mall. Our economy depends on it.
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby Midnight Oil » Tue 16 May 2017, 12:24:21

No doubt, true, already 6X the size of NYC and map shows that bioregions fragmented, living little wilderness. Actually, plans on the board project the landmass the size of the State of Florida be dug up!
All so we can drive on the Freeways a little bit longer...
Go figure.
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 16 May 2017, 12:31:38

Midnight Oil wrote:No doubt, true, already 6X the size of NYC and map shows that bioregions fragmented, living little wilderness. Actually, plans on the board project the landmass the size of the State of Florida be dug up!
All so we can drive on the Freeways a little bit longer...
Go figure.

Midnight, I just don't get all burned up (lol) about petroleum pollution anymore. The Deepwater Horizon was a tragedy, but really mostly a local one. The muskeg and aboreal forest is the largest ecosystem in the world, greater than the Amazon. So it is really huge and the oil sands are just a small part. Anyway, the Age of Oil is ending and the earth will heal. Without us
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 16 May 2017, 16:27:05

No doubt, true, already 6X the size of NYC and map shows that bioregions fragmented, living little wilderness. Actually, plans on the board project the landmass the size of the State of Florida be dug up!


wrong

the oil sands area in total covers an area of 142,200 km 2 as compared to the boreal forest extent in Alberta of 381,000 km2. The total area of oil sands that can be possibly mined (shallow enough) is only 3% or 4260 km2. The rest must be accessed by in-situ methods (steam flood etc). The actual area which has been cleared or disturbed as a result of surface mining is around 900 km2 which is slightly larger than the total area of New York city (not 6 times it size) but is less than 1% of the total boreal forest extent in Alberta. Florida State is 170,000 km2 which is larger than the entire area of the oil sands including the 97% which does will not see disturbance from surface mining.
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby Midnight Oil » Tue 16 May 2017, 16:52:57

http://www.wri.org/sites/default/files/ ... _cover.jpg


If you look at the map and read the article you will see RIGHT!

http://www.wri.org/blog/2014/07/tar-san ... aten-world ’s-largest-boreal-forest

According to Global Forest Watch data, from 2000-2013, Canada lost more than 26 million hectares of forest, mainly in its boreal region. More than 20 percent of the boreal forest region (more than 150 million hectares) is now covered by industrial concessions for timber operations, hydrocarbon development, hydroelectric power reservoirs, and mineral extraction

Forest loss is particularly high in the Alberta tar sands region, an area covering about 14 million hectares. Between 2000 and 2012, forest loss in the tar sands region—which is caused by bitumen (oil) extraction as well as logging and other industrial development—amounted to 5.5 percent of total land area, surpassing loss in Russia (2.2 percent), the United States (2.9 percent), Brazil (4.3 percent) and Canada as a whole (3.1 percent). And in the surface mineable area of the tar sands region – a 475,000 hectare area within the tar sands region where developers clear all vegetation from the land in order to extract bitumen— forest loss reached 20 percent
Canada’s tar sands development will continue to accelerate. Direct forest loss caused by surface and sub-surface tar sands development is projected to exceed 1,150,000 hectares over the next few decades. Studies show that disrupted habitat for endangered species will be at least 10 times that amount
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 16 May 2017, 17:44:22

if you look at the map and read the article you will see RIGHT!


my information is from the Alberta Government website that posts actual statistics

http://www.energy.alberta.ca/OilSands/791.asp

or you could go to the Energy Institute

http://resources.ceri.ca/PDF/Pubs/Studi ... Report.pdf

but you could also go to the wiki site that states

Although there is oil underlying 142,200 km2, which may be disturbed by drilling and in situ extraction, only 4,800 km2 may potentially be surface mined, and 904 km2 has to date been mined


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands

The article you point to claims that 700,000 ha or 7000 km2 has been disturbed which is about 8 times the size of what actually has been mined to date and 1.6 times the size of what is actually mineable. Surface damage caused by in-situ methods is not extensive.

The Energy Institute report points out that in the oil sands areas as a whole oil and gas surface impact is ranks as third behind agriculture and forestry (in 2012 oil and gas surface impact in the oil sands area was a third of that created by agriculture and about half of that created by forestry).
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Re: Alberta sinking billions into pipeline plan to send oil

Unread postby Midnight Oil » Tue 16 May 2017, 18:26:32

Just as they "claim" that these will be "restored"

http://e360.yale.edu/features/on_ravage ... eclamation

When Alberta’s oil sands industry marked its 40th anniversary in 2007, one statistic stood out among the many that measure economic success and environmental impact: Not a single acre of mined land had been certified as being “reclaimed” to government standards.

Since then, major bitumen-mining companies such as Suncor and Syncrude have spent an enormous amount of time, money, and public relations effort to convince the public that theyhave returned disturbed lands to a state that is “equal or better than pre-disturbance conditions.

Many experts doubt whether it’s technically or even economically possible to recreate on a large scale anything resembling the sensitive environments that existed there in the past. Even if were possible, others wonder whether climate change and rapidly expanding tar sands development in Canada — the volume of tar sands mining is expected to nearly double by 2021 — will sabotage efforts to accomplish this on a broad scale in the future.

“I call these reclamation claims by both government and industry a form of greenwashing,” says Suzanne Bayley, a wetlands ecologist at the University of Alberta who recently co-wrote a paper on massive peatland losses in the tar sands region. “What land the industry has reclaimed so far may look good in newspaper, magazine, and television ads, but it is not the wetland-rich landscape that was once dominated by forested and shrubby fens.”

University of Waterloo hydrologist Jonathan Price is one of a group of scientists from across Canada who recently received $6.7 million in government and industry funding to restore tar sands lands on Suncor property. The blueprint for reclamation includes trucking in stored peat, building an aquifer, diverting water, and physically separating oil tailings dumps from the fens so that the contaminants — more than 840 billion liters of toxic fluid byproducts are currently being held in open reservoirs — don’t leach into the groundwater.

Oh well, at least it not as bad as agriculture, mining, clear cutting ect (sarcasm)
Boy, we humans rationalize any justification to consume
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