Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 12 May 2017, 10:59:35

Cog wrote:
Cid_Yama wrote:Yes, this is the year.


This is the year for what?


Ice free Arctic. You know, that thing the ICC says may happen by 2050.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 9082
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 12 May 2017, 11:01:56

Newfie wrote:
Cog wrote:
Cid_Yama wrote:Yes, this is the year.


This is the year for what?


Ice free Arctic. You know, that thing the ICC says may happen by 2050.

Cog, is adverse to any doom speculation and more so if its doom happening soon :lol: :lol: :razz:
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
User avatar
onlooker
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7574
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 12 May 2017, 12:40:21

While I am quite certain an ice free arctic ocean will have profound effects on the climate of Siberia/Scandinavia/North America I remain unconvinced that those changes will be all negative. I even doubt they will be majority negative.

There will be winners and losers just as there is with every change of circumstance. Some folks around here are so laser focused on the loser swatches they completely miss the winner swatches, even if the paleoclimate record indicates those winner swatches will be the majority of the altered circumstances.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 13821
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby kiwichick » Fri 12 May 2017, 20:07:13

@ T .......I suspect the 6 million + humans who are living in either the tropics or sub tropics will disagree with you......especially those living at less than 70 metres above the current sea level
User avatar
kiwichick
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat 02 Aug 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Southland New Zealand

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 12 May 2017, 20:21:26

kiwichick wrote:@ T .......I suspect the 6 million + humans who are living in either the tropics or sub tropics will disagree with you......especially those living at less than 70 metres above the current sea level


On the contrary, those folks will have no doubt who the climate losers are because they are it.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 13821
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 12 May 2017, 20:37:41

Sorry to but in, but didn't kiwi mean to say 6 BILLION?
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
User avatar
onlooker
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7574
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 12 May 2017, 21:16:25

onlooker wrote:Sorry to but in, but didn't kiwi mean to say 6 BILLION?


I sure hope not because the population of the Tropic zone is about 3 Billion. I presumed she was talking about the people who would be flooded out sooner rather than later by sea level rise.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 13821
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby kiwichick » Fri 12 May 2017, 22:07:44

to clarify.......less than 1 billion people currently live in high latitude areas....like Canada , Alaska, Scandinavia, Scotland, Greenland, Siberia........and in the Southern Hemisphere , New Zealand , Tasmania, Argentina?, which may benefit from AGW, in the short term at least.

I can't see the lower 48 states of the US being a "winner"
User avatar
kiwichick
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat 02 Aug 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Southland New Zealand

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 13 May 2017, 07:28:19

From my perspective one needs to be flexible and mobile.

We don't know the timetable of change, it may be fast.

We have places in the higher latitudes but are currently living where we don't need heat or AC. Although it would have been damn nice this week when it was 100 here in Florida, but that's only temporary as we prep to move North for the summer. :)
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 9082
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 13 May 2017, 19:04:29

Ignorance is bliss, enjoy it while you can.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
User avatar
Cid_Yama
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 6880
Joined: Sun 27 May 2007, 02:00:00
Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 14 May 2017, 09:59:13

But getting back to the Arctic for a moment:

http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10. ... -15-0466.1

On the Potential for Abrupt Winter Arctic Sea Ice Loss
...loss of Arctic winter sea ice area is faster than the preceding loss of summer sea ice area for the
same rate of warming....


So we may be closer than some think to a year-round ice-free Arctic!

But I'm sure there will be only good consequences from such an event! :) :x 8O :cry:
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 16469
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 15 May 2017, 15:02:48

kiwichick wrote:to clarify.......less than 1 billion people currently live in high latitude areas....like Canada , Alaska, Scandinavia, Scotland, Greenland, Siberia........and in the Southern Hemisphere , New Zealand , Tasmania, Argentina?, which may benefit from AGW, in the short term at least.

I can't see the lower 48 states of the US being a "winner"



Getting warmer in the Arctic is not the same as "winning."

More warmth for the Arctic means melting permafrost and glaciers, sea level rise and massive coastal erosion of frozen beach cliff sediments, extinction of Walrus, Polar Bears, etc. and other unpleasant things.

Some of us living in the far north rather like things the way they are. :)

"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
"Il bel far niente"
---traditional Italian saying
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 20269
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby efarmer » Mon 15 May 2017, 19:41:17

Plantagenet,
As is usual on this site, we learn of each other by our posts, and it often goes political and I at once knew we aren't exactly the same on that. But a decade or more of thoughtful and great posts by you taught me I should listen and I have. I do not always agree, but your science and depenable content has built my respect and attention as it should by your content. This has forged great respect for your knowledge and attention to the true environmental issues society faces, while understanding that our politics is not capable of being honest, or pursuing honest responses to real challenges. I have come down to looking as well as I can within my skill set at what the proven challenges are, and I would like to admit that I underestimated you based on my bias, and have been proven wrong on the content of your character and beliefs based on on your consistent posts and content. I was hoping for easy politcal choices and answers and these are not on tap, I am buoyed for sharing ideas and respect and having some hard work to do to understand real issues and challenges versus my long held postures. Thanks for honesty that leads to growing and respect, and keep up what you do so well, and know I reserve the right to argue, but not out of a place of attempting to insult, deny, or damage. There is no room in our discourse for such folly now or of course never. Hoping you are enabled and blessed in the ways you need at this time.
Best,
Efarmer
User avatar
efarmer
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Fri 17 Mar 2006, 03:00:00

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby kiwichick » Mon 15 May 2017, 22:49:28

@ plant......too true......but I would rather be in the South Island of New Zealand than anywhere on mainland Australia , for example
and of course if we don't get our act together East Antarctica is looking like our last option
User avatar
kiwichick
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat 02 Aug 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Southland New Zealand

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 27 May 2017, 20:58:05

DMI_Degreedayfreezingseason_anom.png
DMI_Degreedayfreezingseason_anom.png (120.67 KiB) Viewed 2389 times


Yikes!
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
User avatar
onlooker
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7574
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 27 May 2017, 22:38:30

thanks for that graph, ol.

EFarmer has continued his streak in a series of stunningly written and well thought out posts. Thanks. I also have grown to deeply respect Plant's insights into things environmental even as we continue to disagree on some political issues.

This seems to be one of the rare places left in the US where such respect across political divides is still possible. I thank the moderators and fellow posters for that.
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 16469
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 27 May 2017, 22:57:05

Yes, I also thank everybody here for their insights and generally measured tone. We have all contributed to each others understandings and helped to refine, balance and compliment each others views. And I thank the administration ie. Tanada for balancing well enforcement of rules with liberty of expression. Back to the topic
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
User avatar
onlooker
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7574
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 28 May 2017, 06:37:12

onlooker wrote:Yes, I also thank everybody here for their insights and generally measured tone. We have all contributed to each others understandings and helped to refine, balance and compliment each others views. And I thank the administration ie. Tanada for balancing well enforcement of rules with liberty of expression. Back to the topic


In some ways though this is the topic isn't it? For if we are going to succeed in any way in seriously addressing the issue then we need more of this cross pollination across the political divide, this uncoupling of climate change that somehow got shoe horned into the ideology of the left and bring it front and center as a physical phenomenon that threatens the well being of our species and countless others.

In our small way we demonstrate this here.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5823
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby kiwichick » Thu 01 Jun 2017, 02:13:16

User avatar
kiwichick
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat 02 Aug 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Southland New Zealand

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Whitefang » Sat 03 Jun 2017, 06:40:58

http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/05/26/ ... nces-back/

The vast majority area of Greenland has seen surface snow and ice gain over the past 9 months. Moreover, Arctic temperatures for now are below normal…The big development in recent Arctic news is the “recovery” of Arctic sea ice extent, which now is back in the normal range.


So we're just dandy and fine!

Or is that 15% ice so mushy messed up that it is drifting south and enlarging extent?
User avatar
Whitefang
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Fri 12 May 2006, 02:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to Environment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests