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THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dissident » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 14:15:16

onlooker wrote:Isn't DISS, the surface ocean anoxic regime one of the main culprits that drove the extinction process of the "Great Dying" of some 250 million years ago?


"Isn't" what. Anoxic regime CH4 emissions are generated in the present moment. Crysosphere CH4 is accumulated fossil reservoir release. Totally different physical processes. Stop lumping everything into a big pile and then wanting to know how fast different processes will take.

The potential emissions CH4 from shallow anoxic regime carbon cycling is not a secondary source. Annually about 92 gigatons of carbon enter into the oceans from the atmosphere and about 90 gigatons are released. This is not just an abiotic process and a large part of this carbon cycling is controlled by the ocean surface layer ecosystem. The fraction of the 90+ gigatons of carbon being released that will be in the form of CH4 as opposed to CO2 will increase due to anoxic regime biochemistry. So we are talking about multiple gigatons of extra CH4 emissions coming our way, soon. Current global CH4 emissions are about 600 megatons per year.

Burrowing of heat into soils on land or the seabed is a very slow process. In the case of the oceans the warming works to make the surface layer shallower so that the penetration of heat into the seabed in all but the shallowest zones is actually reduced. You can fret about the Arctic methane bomb all you want, but you have and still are missing the freight train headed right at you.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 29 Apr 2017, 14:15:45

plenty of freight trains to go around these days, but this ocean feedback dis is talking about is definitely a big one.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 29 Apr 2017, 20:18:08

dohboi wrote:plenty of freight trains to go around these days, but this ocean feedback dis is talking about is definitely a big one.

And I thought the Arctic methane bomb was bad enough now Diss gives us this geez :(
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 05 May 2017, 21:46:11

More, I believe, related to what dis was talking about:

Decades of data on world's oceans reveal a troubling oxygen decline


Summary:
The amount of dissolved oxygen contained in the water -- an important measure of ocean health -- has been declining for more than 20 years, reveals a new analysis of decades of data on oceans across the globe.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 104346.htm
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 13 May 2017, 13:46:24

Is is the type of effects being observed now that should not allow anyone to be sanguine about the future
http://www.scotsman.com/news/environmen ... -1-4444641
Oceans ‘on verge of mass extinction event’, scientists warn
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dissident » Sat 13 May 2017, 14:54:37

onlooker wrote:Is is the type of effects being observed now that should not allow anyone to be sanguine about the future
http://www.scotsman.com/news/environmen ... -1-4444641
Oceans ‘on verge of mass extinction event’, scientists warn


Wrong title. Humanity is on the verge of a mass extinction event if the oceans go into the anoxic regime. Humans weren't around the during the last anoxic transition during the Eocene. Also, the current evolution towards this regime indicates that the Miocene is not a relevant analogue for the current warming. Also, we are seeing what is the importance of the rate of warming: transition to ocean anoxia withough Eocene levels of warming and long before the ultimate peak warming state.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dissident » Sat 13 May 2017, 15:06:49

dohboi wrote:More, I believe, related to what dis was talking about:

Decades of data on world's oceans reveal a troubling oxygen decline


Summary:
The amount of dissolved oxygen contained in the water -- an important measure of ocean health -- has been declining for more than 20 years, reveals a new analysis of decades of data on oceans across the globe.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 104346.htm


Stand back and ponder in awe that we are on the verge of ocean anoxia with less than 1.5 C of warming. All the smug, arrogant, wallowing in ignorance thinking that the biosphere will take any load of sh*t we dump into it. Not one single proper scientific evaluation of this thinking, just pure gut feelings as if humans have super computers in their guts.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 13 May 2017, 15:26:19

YES! Humanity is on the verge of a mass extinction event if when the oceans go into the anoxic regime. Staggering 8O
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 23 May 2017, 16:28:47

https://robertscribbler.com/2016/05/12/ ... idas-reef/
The Killer Seas Begin — Mass Marine Death off Chile as Ocean Acidification Begins to Take Down Florida’s Reef
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 26 Jun 2017, 16:45:01

New study confirms the oceans are warming rapidly

Although there’s some uncertainty in the distribution among Earth’s ocean basins, there’s no question that the ocean is heating rapidly


https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ng-rapidly
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 02 Jul 2017, 18:42:33

“Ask nearly anyone in the Miami area about flooding and they’ll have an anecdote to share. Many will also tell you that it’s happening more and more frequently. The data backs them up.”

A really good piece on what Miami is facing on BBC News website.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2017040 ... level-rise
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dissident » Sun 02 Jul 2017, 20:57:13

dohboi wrote:New study confirms the oceans are warming rapidly

Although there’s some uncertainty in the distribution among Earth’s ocean basins, there’s no question that the ocean is heating rapidly


https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ng-rapidly


The heat has to go somewhere to conserve energy. About 90% of it has been going into the oceans. This has given humans the false sense that the warming is moderate since only 10% of it stays in the atmosphere. The epic problem for humanity is that the absorption capacity of the oceans is not infinite and there will be a transition point where most of the warming will stay in the atmosphere. In the process of evolving to this transition point, the ocean surface layer will warm to the point that the global oceans enter the anoxic regime. We will not have to wait centuries for this transition. The ocean surface is a shallow pool with a response timescale of a few decades.

It is impressive to see how fast the warming of the surface layer together with the shutting down of the eddy mixing and transport through the thermocline is occurring. But this subject is almost ignored.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 03 Jul 2017, 02:35:13

We are already seeing evidence of what Dissident is describing.
http://time.com/4675022/ocean-oxygen-study-world/
The World’s Oceans Are Losing Oxygen. Here’s Why That’s a Big Problem
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 04 Jul 2017, 06:47:22

And these conditions will last a very long time
http://www.exeter.ac.uk/news/research/t ... 54_en.html
Jurassic drop in ocean oxygen lasted a million years
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 04 Jul 2017, 06:50:41

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 3/abstract
Plain Language Summary

This new paper describes the analysis of the dissolved oxygen in the global ocean using the most recent version of the World Ocean Database for the period of 1955 to 2015. After careful examination of the data, we found that a statistically significant, widespread O2 decline is emerging beyond the envelope of natural fluctuations. Our study also reveals a tight relationship between O2 inventories and the ocean heat content. The spatial pattern and magnitude of this relationship are consistent with expectations derived from mechanistic ocean climate models forced under climate warming scenarios. Taken together, the trends we document here are suggestive of the effects of the ocean warming beginning to supersede natural variability and emerge as a recognizable signal. This merits additional scrutiny over the coming years.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 08 Jul 2017, 16:25:27

thnx to mlp at robertscribbler's blog for these:

more basic information on ocean processes.
1. https://phys.org/news/2017-07-extreme-l ... house.html
Mobile low oxygen eddies moving across the Atlantic producing nitrous oxide, a “hitherto unknown phenomenon in the Atlantic,” says Dr. Fiedler.”
“The latest study, now published in Scientific Reports, demonstrates that at the core of the eddy, the highest levels of the greenhouse gas nitrous oxide ever measured in the open Atlantic were found in only 100 meters of water depth.

(Note that this is a feedback, since nitrous oxide is a powerful GHG, probably a feedback not yet in any models.)

2. Bacteria collaborate to propel the ocean ‘engine’. July 5, 2017
https://phys.org/news/2017-07-bacteria- ... ocean.html

Essential microbiological interactions that keep our oceans stable have been fully revealed for the first time, by researchers at the University of Warwick.

Dr Joseph Christie-Oleza and Professor David Scanlan from the School of Life Sciences have discovered that two of the most abundant types of microorganism in the oceans – phototrophic and heterotrophic bacteria – collaborate to cycle nutrients, consequently, drawing carbon from the atmosphere and feeding the ecosystem.

This is contrary to the popular scientific belief that marine phototrophs and heterotrophs compete with each other to consume the scarce nutrients found in seawater.

Phototrophic bacteria use light to ‘fix’ carbon dioxide from the air, and convert this into organic matter – which leaks out, and is consumed by heterotrophs, which in turn release nutrients back to the ecosystem so the phototrophic bacteria can continue to do their job: photosynthesise and fix more carbon.

This interaction keeps the level of nutrients in the ocean balanced and keeps a healthy base that ultimately sustains the entire marine food web. Half of the planet’s primary production and half of the oxygen we breathe rely on this system to work efficiently. The speed at which these nutrients are circulated will define the rate at which the oceans will continue to buffer against carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which is a major greenhouse gas.

“Here we give experimental evidence of a basic concept in ecology, where nutrients need to circulate to maintain a stable ecosystem, like money in the economy! If one of the partners takes too much and doesn’t give back, he himself will suffer the consequences in the long term. The system will self-regulate and always reach a stable state”, commented Dr Christie-Oleza.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 09 Jul 2017, 10:36:21

In previous warmings: "...within only 130 years the oceans underwent devastating changes that led to complete collapse of invertebrates on the seafloor. More worryingly, the fossil records show that ecosystem recovery took at least 1,000 years..."

https://phys.org/news/2015-04-ocean-dea ... h.html#jCp
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 26 Jul 2017, 06:58:34

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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 27 Jul 2017, 13:45:52

I went fishing out of Boston this last weekend. Tides were extremely low due to the sun and moon lining up for an eclipse. Low tide was so low that some boats were sitting on the mud in their slips and we had to wait two hours before we could clear the harbor. Doesn't prove anything of course but sea level is going to have to rise quite a bit more before anybody has to take any action and nobody should abandon their dredging plans hoping the problem will go away by itself.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 27 Jul 2017, 14:06:08

Boston mostly rises steeply out of the ocean, and except for Back Bay perhaps, is not in much threat from sea level rise.

The Miami area, on the other hand regularly floods now with high tide, especially 'king' tides.

So no, we don't have to wait for slr to be problem. It already is a big problem is lots of places, and those problems will get worse and worse, and will spread to more and more places.
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