Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Draining wetlands

Draining wetlands

Unread postby vampyregirl » Wed 10 Dec 2008, 05:57:53

Draining swamps can be a good thing on one hand as many swamps are a breeding ground for malaria and typhus but on the other hand can be bad as it can lead to soil erosion as has been found in Israel's Hula Valley where part of the Hula marshes have recently been reflooded because of erosion. Do the positive effects such as clearing land for cultivation and destroying the breeding ground of disease carrying mosquitos outweigh the negative consequences? I will have to do some more research before I can make a judgement.
vampyregirl
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2007, 03:00:00

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby FrankRichards » Wed 10 Dec 2008, 06:54:05

Have you considered that it might not be an all or nothing deal? It might vary case by case say?
User avatar
FrankRichards
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon 11 Oct 2004, 02:00:00

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 10 Dec 2008, 07:21:47

Any particular marshes you are thinking of ? Is there a problem you are trying to address ? Because, I think like Frank said, the specifics will matter. Also, any time modifications are done to natural systems on a large scale, even with the best of intentions, it seems that there are unintended and unanticipated effects.

Rather than drain marshes, learn to adapt to them.
User avatar
dinopello
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 6097
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 02:00:00
Location: The Urban Village

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 10 Dec 2008, 07:38:02

8) If you are in the United States you need a permit to do ANY work in a wetland. Normaly if you drain or fill in a wetland for any purpose you have to create or permanetly protect a wetland of equal area. Even the bottoms of man made ditches are considered wetlands and state DOTs have to get permits to replace culverts as the water running in the pipe makes a wetland at both ends.
If you get caught filling in or otherwise altering a wetland they will amoung other things make you put it back the way it was at your expense.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7041
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 10 Dec 2008, 07:47:28

vtsnowedin wrote:8) If you are in the United States you need a permit to do ANY work in a wetland. Normaly if you drain or fill in a wetland for any purpose you have to create or permanetly protect a wetland of equal area. Even the bottoms of man made ditches are considered wetlands and state DOTs have to get permits to replace culverts as the water running in the pipe makes a wetland at both ends.
If you get caught filling in or otherwise altering a wetland they will amoung other things make you put it back the way it was at your expense.


The vampyre may be talking about wetlands outside of the U.S. like Africa or the middle east so I'd like to know if she has some in mind that she believes need draining.
User avatar
dinopello
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 6097
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 02:00:00
Location: The Urban Village

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 10 Dec 2008, 08:16:01

dinopello wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:8)
The vampyre may be talking about wetlands outside of the U.S. like Africa or the middle east so I'd like to know if she has some in mind that she believes need draining.

But of course.:)
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7041
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby vampyregirl » Wed 10 Dec 2008, 08:20:30

Like I said I need to do some more research. I mentioned the Hula marshes in Israel because I happen to know about that particular case. I understand that in America there is a debate on whether to drain what is left of the New Jersey Meadowlands. Some say there is nothing there worth saving, others disagree. Since I don't live in America that really dosen't concern me but I am interested anyway. Man vs nature is an interesting topic.
vampyregirl
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2007, 03:00:00

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby StormBringer » Wed 10 Dec 2008, 08:41:22

Seems like to me Not everyone has learned the lesson of this century. In our effort to make things better and change the world we are instead the destroyer. Instead of living in harmony with it and using good since we change things to suit us, and look where we are.The thing i have come to realize is that the old sayings from centuries ago still hold true today, for example..."It is a foolish man who builds his house upon the sand". Now everyone assumed that is a reference to the unstable foundation, but it also means you are too darn close to the water..I.E. Tide, waves, storms, floods. Or the exact opposite, Desert,heat,no water. We as a people see only what we want to see. yes we can fix the foundation but can we fix nature....NO!
User avatar
StormBringer
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat 06 Dec 2008, 03:00:00
Location: BFE Mo.

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 10 Dec 2008, 11:05:58

vampyregirl wrote:Like I said I need to do some more research. I mentioned the Hula marshes in Israel because I happen to know about that particular case. I understand that in America there is a debate on whether to drain what is left of the New Jersey Meadowlands. Some say there is nothing there worth saving, others disagree. Since I don't live in America that really dosen't concern me but I am interested anyway. Man vs nature is an interesting topic.


Wet lands, real ones not ditches, are indeed valuable as they are. Tidal marshes like the Jersey meadowlands are a critical part of the life cycles of marine life and without them our coastal waters would be devoid of many types of fish and shell fish. Further inland wetlands allow rainwater time to soak into the ground replenishing aquafers and storing suface water modifying downstream flows to the advantage of life downstream. In desert areas even a small patch of wetland provides the last ingredient needed to support life of many species. Its too bad that the protection of these resourses has got tangled in a bureaucratic mess of ditch cleaning permits and political pay to play football.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7041
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 10 Dec 2008, 11:25:39

vtsnowedin wrote:Wet lands, real ones not ditches, are indeed valuable as they are. Tidal marshes like the Jersey meadowlands are a critical part of the life cycles of marine life and without them our coastal waters would be devoid of many types of fish and shell fish. Further inland wetlands allow rainwater time to soak into the ground replenishing aquafers and storing suface water modifying downstream flows to the advantage of life downstream. In desert areas even a small patch of wetland provides the last ingredient needed to support life of many species. Its too bad that the protection of these resourses has got tangled in a bureaucratic mess of ditch cleaning permits and political pay to play football.


100% agree. Wetlands are vital to preservation of fresh water, soil, biodiversity, etc. Hence they are vital to human survival.
User avatar
Ludi
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 18586
Joined: Mon 27 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Darkest Dumfukistan

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby dunewalker » Wed 10 Dec 2008, 11:41:21

Ludi wrote:100% agree. Wetlands are vital to preservation of fresh water, soil, biodiversity, etc. Hence they are vital to human survival.


To me it's sad that generally, the planet is not appreciated in parameters besides "what's in it for us?" I sense that Ludi does not think in these terms, but is merely attempting to translate the inherent value of wetlands.
"Wilderness is another civilization apart from our own." - H.D. Thoreau
User avatar
dunewalker
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1234
Joined: Thu 30 Jun 2005, 02:00:00
Location: northern California

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby WildRose » Thu 11 Dec 2008, 01:14:57

A good site below to learn about the value of wetlands.

http://www.wetlandsalberta.ca/wetlands/

They're at risk in Alberta from tar sands development.
User avatar
WildRose
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1852
Joined: Wed 21 Jun 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 11 Dec 2008, 05:10:28

"Man vs nature is an interesting topic."

That struggle is now over.

Both sides lost.
User avatar
dohboi
Master
Master
 
Posts: 15586
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Thu 11 Dec 2008, 05:27:32

The destruction of wet lands is also one of the reasons behind massive uncontrollable flooding. These are highly valuable areas.

for an entertaining view from a simple standpoint check out Bill Nye the Science Guys show on wetlands. Its cool and explains it in ways anyone can get.
User avatar
uNkNowN ElEmEnt
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2587
Joined: Sat 04 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: perpetual state of exhaustion

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Thu 11 Dec 2008, 19:16:09

dunewalker wrote:
Ludi wrote:100% agree. Wetlands are vital to preservation of fresh water, soil, biodiversity, etc. Hence they are vital to human survival.


To me it's sad that generally, the planet is not appreciated in parameters besides "what's in it for us?" I sense that Ludi does not think in these terms, but is merely attempting to translate the inherent value of wetlands.


Sorry but anything that gets in the way of my $650 million 1500-unit housing McMansion and shopping mall development must be eliminated!
User avatar
Serial_Worrier
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Thu 11 Dec 2008, 19:16:34

uNkNowN ElEmEnt wrote:The destruction of wet lands is also one of the reasons behind massive uncontrollable flooding. These are highly valuable areas.

for an entertaining view from a simple standpoint check out Bill Nye the Science Guys show on wetlands. Its cool and explains it in ways anyone can get.


Another Commie bastard.
User avatar
Serial_Worrier
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby WildRose » Thu 11 Dec 2008, 21:31:59

Serial_Worrier wrote:
dunewalker wrote:
Ludi wrote:100% agree. Wetlands are vital to preservation of fresh water, soil, biodiversity, etc. Hence they are vital to human survival.


To me it's sad that generally, the planet is not appreciated in parameters besides "what's in it for us?" I sense that Ludi does not think in these terms, but is merely attempting to translate the inherent value of wetlands.


Sorry but anything that gets in the way of my $650 million 1500-unit housing McMansion and shopping mall development must be eliminated!


Hence, the "man vs. nature" mind-frame, which I sense you understand well, Serial_Worrier. Unfortunately, we all need the wetlands more than we need another shopping mall, which I'm sure will become clear to us in the coming years.
User avatar
WildRose
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1852
Joined: Wed 21 Jun 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 09:35:03

Swamps — more correctly known as wetlands — are an incredibly important global ecosystem. So today, on World Wetlands Day, let's show them some love.

What makes a 'wetland'?

Wetlands are defined as areas that are covered in water for at least one season. They're often full of plants called hydrophytes: the ferns, sedges and rushes that we typically associate with wet, swampy, boggy areas. These plants love soils that are saturated with water.

But there are many different types of wetlands. There are bogs that are full of peat mosses, marshes at the mouths of rivers and lakes, coastal wetlands where mangrove trees grow and countless other examples.

Why are they so important?

Let me count the ways…

One reason is that wetlands act as natural water filters. When runoff from natural and man-made processes pass through, wetlands can have a neutralizing effect.

If wetlands are in between an agricultural zone and a freshwater ecosystem, fertilizer runoff is absorbed by the wetland and used to fuel the slow processes that take place there. By the time the water reaches a lake or stream, there isn't enough fertilizer left to fuel the destructive algal blooms that can poison freshwater ecosystems.

Another big reason wetlands are important is that they are one of the most productive ecosystems on the planet.

Wetlands are the world's nurseries. Young fish escape predation by hiding amongst the roots and shoots of wetland plants like mangroves. Birds from all over the world use the dense greenery to hide their nests. The 'prairie potholes' of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta are important areas for migrating birds.

How do they help the environment?

It's simple: wetlands help fight climate change.

A new study published today in Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment looks at the impact that wetlands can have in mitigating man-made global warming. These areas are able to break down organic material very slowly and without oxygen, storing carbon rather than releasing it into the atmosphere.

Peat bogs — of which Canada has many — are especially good at storing carbon. Bogs are an incredible natural phenomenon that can take take hundreds or thousands of years to develop.

Bogs have a very low pH, which means that dead, decaying plant matter takes a very long time to decompose. So any of the carbon trapped in plants goes down into the ground and is not metabolized into carbon dioxide. Peat bogs or muskeg contain an estimated one-third of the organic carbon in global soils.

How extensive are wetlands in Canada?

We find wetlands across the entire country. Twenty-one per cent of Alberta is classified as wetland. Even small Prince Edward Island is home to wetlands — St Peter's Lake Run is a very important marsh for a bird called the piping plover.

But wetlands are disappearing too. Sixty-eight per cent of Ontario's natural wetlands have been destroyed in favour of agricultural lands or other development. Only about 25 per cent of southern Manitoba's wetlands remain.

That being said — wetland cover in Canada is still substantial. Most of the north's natural wetlands are still intact.

How can wetlands be protected?


For starters, recognizing that just because the land is soggy and unusable for humans does not mean it is not important. In Canada there is a growing awareness about the importance of wetlands, but they always seem to get in the way of someone's attempt to make money.

There are some basic consumer choices you can make to preserve wetlands — an easy one is to look at your shrimp packaging.

Most of the inexpensive shrimp that you find on grocery store shelves comes from farms in Indonesia and Vietnam where mangrove forests are removed in favour of large-scale shrimp ponds. The ponds last only about 10 years, so companies will then move down the coast, destroy more mangroves and start over.

Conservation isn't actually that hard, but it starts with understanding and being aware of just how important these ecosystems really are.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/don-t ... -1.3962917
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 13384
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 09:45:08

And just because the land is soggy and unusable for humans does not mean it shouldn't be used to improve the lives of humans...such as those being fed from converted Ontario swamps. Swamps have their value...as does dry land.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 9538
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Draining wetlands

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 09:48:57

ROCKMAN wrote:And just because the land is soggy and unusable for humans does not mean it shouldn't be used to improve the lives of humans...such as those being fed from converted Ontario swamps. Swamps have their value...as does dry land.

Image
Wetlands are also critically important as holding ponds for tar-sands goop
There's nothing deeper than love. In fairy tales, the princesses kiss the frogs, and the frogs become princes. In real life,the princesses kiss princes, and the princes turn into frogs

“Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns it all clean.”
― Maya Angelou
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 24492
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Next

Return to Environment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: clif, KaiserJeep and 5 guests