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Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubbers'

Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 17 Feb 2017, 11:58:00

onlooker wrote:I think many of us can agree Govt has gotten to big. On balance in my opinion it is doing more harm than good for the population. My evolving preference is a form of anarchy. You can say it is an extreme Libertarian view that espouses NO government


I've been in that same place for years. In my case, it happened while reading Robert Heinlein's novel The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, which is now 51 years out of date, but which was first published when I was in High School. My Social Studies teacher was a political junkie, and he used the book as a timely learning aid.

In fact, just two weeks ago, this was published: http://www.learnliberty.org/blog/lunar-prisoners-fight-for-freedom-in-robert-a-heinleins-the-moon-is-a-harsh-mistress/?gclid=CJ-Es5fMl9ICFVK2wAod3XgDIg

In modern Libertarian (with a large "L") thought, Heinlein has replaced Ayn Rand. I always thought Rand was more anti-Communist than anything else, but hers was a different world, just as the world of today is different from Heinlein's world. As for who will occupy that central place in libertarian (with a small "l") thought in this age of digital networking as we evolve into a cybernetic species, I do not know, but I don't see any likely candidates today.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby ozcad » Fri 17 Feb 2017, 14:00:35

If you attended one of Heinlein's parties, I am not sure how much of it you could remember.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 17 Feb 2017, 14:07:28

ozcad wrote:If you attended one of Heinlein's parties, I am not sure how much of it you could remember.


Do you speak from personal experience? I never met the man myself.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby careinke » Sun 19 Feb 2017, 12:20:01

Ibon wrote:You can practice this everyday. Render unto Caeser the minimum required to avoid encarceration and then disengage.

+1
This is my plan.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 28 Mar 2017, 13:32:05

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -citations

I am an Arctic researcher. Donald Trump is deleting my citations
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Cog » Tue 28 Mar 2017, 13:52:22

He did not provide any links to this supposedly wiped out database or citations therefore fake news.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Cog » Thu 01 Jun 2017, 22:33:27

Your services are no longer required at the EPA. Although the cuts do not go deep enough this is a start.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-e ... 8S6N5?il=0

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency plans to offer some employees a buyout program to reduce staff, according to an internal memo seen by Reuters, as President Donald Trump proposes slashing the agency's budget and workforce to reduce regulation.

The memo sent by acting Deputy Administrator Mike Flynn on Thursday said the agency wants to complete the buyout program by September. It did not give a dollar figure for the buyouts or say how many employees it hoped would take the offer.

The memo was sent to all employees at the same time EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt joined Trump at the White House to announce that the United States would withdraw from the Paris climate agreement.

"Early outs and buy outs ... can help us realign our workforce to meet changing mission requirements and move toward new models of work," the memo said. "The authority encourages voluntary separations and helps the Agency complete workforce restructuring with minimal disruption to the workforce."

The EPA would see the biggest cuts of any federal agency in Trump's 2018 budget proposal, with a 31 percent reduction in budget and the elimination of over 3,200 employees. The EPA employs about 15,000 people.

In the memo, Flynn said the White House Office of Management and Budget must still approve the buyout plan. The EPA and other federal agencies have offered buyouts to employees from time to time in the past.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Midnight Oil » Thu 01 Jun 2017, 22:47:06

Cog, seems "The Ministry of Truth" will take over the functions of the EPA.
Yes, if you can't beat them with the "FACTS", as another member likes to point out, just silence them by refunding. We can use those funds elsewhere, tax cuts for the wealthiest, moar military hardware, ect.
Yep, the Stock Market has reached new " highs", just like building the Tower of Babel! Way to go Guys!
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 05:00:43

I'm not too worried about the EPA.....yet. While not directly about the EPA I have seen or heard examples of over staffing in government agencies. A couple of brief examples. On another board were discussions of why our USA weather forecasts are so bad. One of the problems, from insiders, was that the unions stifle a lot of inovation, improvements developed inhouse are never implemented because the union is protecting jobs.

What I have directly observed is overstaffing in some transit agencies. There is a wide, wide range in staffing levels between agencies. In one agenciy in particular it's extreamely difficult to get anything done because of this. Each person has his tiny area of responsibility and guards it fiercely. Every field visit or decision requires numerous people involved, which is a scheduling nightmare and the most mundane points become heated committee discussions, frequently between rivals with bad histories. No agency ever said they had enough staff. I've worked in other organizations where the staff was far leaner. While not always pleasant getting stuff done was far easier and more efficient.

Therefore, my gut sense is that giving the staff a haircut may to be such a bad thing.

I've also recently developed a bit of a grip with the EPA over some of their newer regulations that effect me on a personal basis. Pure foolishness and stupidity that makes things worse not better. So the direct evidence I see is of an agency trying too hard for a reason to be....in some recent decisions.

Overall I support a strong and effective EPA. I would be most upset should its effectiveness be diminished.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Cog » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 05:22:13

State level EPA will not be affected by cuts in the federal one. This truly should be a state function to begin with. With some federal mandates in place but not a lot. Now that compliance with the Paris accords is off the table, these government workers can focus their efforts in maintaining a clean and healthy environment right here in the USA.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Midnight Oil » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 10:58:05

Sure Cog, whatever you dream...NOT..
Now for REALITY check...

Trump wants to cut the EPA’s budget by nearly a third, reducing its overall funding level to $5.6 billion. On a percentage basis, that is the largest proposed cut to any federal agency. It would give the EPA its smallest budget in 40 years, adjusting for inflation.
This would cut the EPA’s workforce by 20 percent, removing 3,800 jobs.
Most significantly, Trump wants to cut by 40 percent the EPA’s federal enforcement office—the people who make sure corporations are complying with federal regulations. Scott Pruitt, the agency’s administrator, has previously said that he believes that states—and not the EPA—should oversee enforcement of rules themselves. But Trump’s budget would also cut by 45 percent the grants that allow states to do that enforcement. These changes would almost certainly ensure far less enforcement of existing environmental rules than happens now, at federal and state levels.
The EPA office which determines standards for the amount of acceptable pollution in drinking water will also have its budget cut by half. (Earlier this year, the same office struck the words “science-based” from its mission statement, replacing them with “economically … achievable.”)
Superfund, the EPA program that cleans up toxic-chemical spill sites that have become public-health hazards, will have its budget cut by 25 percent. Such a cut will halt many cleanups.
Trump also wants to shut down many of the same EPA programs targeted in March. He would terminate the Great Lakes, Chesapeake Bay, and Puget Sound cleanup programs. He would also close Energy Star, which informs consumers which home appliances are most energy-efficient.
Beyond the EPA, the budget also slashes environmental-science programs throughout the government. Many of these target climate change. Mick Mulvaney, Trump’s budget director, has said that he considers climate science to be a “waste of your money.” So Trump’s budget cuts $59 million in Earth-science research grants from NASA. Meanwhile, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s research office would see its budget reduced by one-fifth.
But the slashed science programs go far beyond climate change. Trump proposes to end a NOAA program to research and better predict tornadoes in the south, and he also cuts $11 million from a tsunami-warning program for the Pacific coast. He also wants to slash NOAA’s weather-satellite budget by 17 percent.
Finally, he proposes to savage Department of Energy programs with environmental ends. While that department’s overall budget is only reduced by five percent, he would cut many of its greenest programs. Trump wants to close ARPA-E, the government’s energy-innovation R&D lab; and many of the loan-guarantee programs that support renewable-energy companies.
These are—to state the obvious—a lot of cuts

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... ge/527814/

Cog, you really should stop getting your info from MakingAmericaGreat.com
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 13:08:53

Midnight Oil wrote:Trump wants to cut the EPA’s budget by nearly a third, reducing its overall funding level to $5.6 billion. On a percentage basis, that is the largest proposed cut to any federal agency. It would give the EPA its smallest budget in 40 years, adjusting for inflation.
This would cut the EPA’s workforce by 20 percent, removing 3,800 jobs.


The EPA has been doing a terrible job.

We have lead in public water supplies in cities all over the country and he EPA has been covering it up---probably because the lead is mainly in cities run by Ds. The EPA knew there was lead in the Flint water supply over a year before the knowledge became public but they did nothing---letting thousands of kids get lead poisoning and brain damage.

We'll all be much better off if the EPA stops worrying about climate change----something that is better done by the National Science Foundation, the US Geological Survey and other federal science agencies-----and gets back back to its main job of protecting the environment so kids aren't getting brain damage across the USA in our cities.

Cheers!

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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Midnight Oil » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 15:20:11

CHEERS! Scientific American begs to differ Plant...
By most accounts the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), which turned 40 in December 2009, has been very effective. The first dedicated national environmental agency of its kind, the EPA has been instrumental in setting policy priorities and writing and enforcing a wide range of laws that have literally changed the face of the Earth for the better. The EPA’s existence and effectiveness has also inspired scores of other countries to create their own environmental agencies along the same lines
The agency was charged with overseeing implementation and enforcement of a new raft of laws designed to protect Americans’ air, water and land from the ill effects of pollution, development and urbanization. The Clean Water Act and the Clean Air Act are early examples of sweeping legislation that only a dedicated environmental agency could properly oversee. Today the EPA has also taken up the mantle of helping Americans find and implement remedies for pressing global problems from ozone depletion to climate change
banning the widespread use of the pesticide DDT, which was decimating bald eagles and other birds and threatening public health; achieving significant reductions in sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide emissions that were polluting water sources via acid rain; changing public perceptions of waste, leading to innovations that make use of waste for energy creation and making new products; getting lead out of gasoline; classifying secondhand smoke as a known cause of cancer, leading to smoking bans in indoor public places; establishing stringent emission standards for pollutants emitted by cars and trucks; regulating toxic chemicals and encouraging the development of more benign chemicals; establishing a national commitment to restore and maintain the safety of fresh water, via the Clean Water Act; promoting equitable environmental protection for minority and low-income citizens; and increasing public information and communities’ “right to know” what chemicals and/or pollutants they may be exposed to in their daily lives
So...toss your opinion in the toilet and flush
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 16:01:46

Brought to you by a the EPA Cheering Squad. Some SINarticles are good, but I've also seen pure baloney.

Look, no doubt the EPA has done much good and is to be applauded. It has also done some klinkers. I'm definetly against anyone interfering with their basic mission. AND, unlike Cog, I get that their mandate is national and runs across state borders. It to balanced no agency is 100% perfect.

IF and WHEN Trump starts to cut into their mandate then he should be slapped hard by Congress. And Ckngress should be held accountable by their constituents to do this.

I would like to see specific discussion on this or that proposed cut rather than broad generalizations defending or attacking any agency.

Hopefully this will be an instance where when folks realize what's at stake they think things through and then the EPA actually ends up a more effective organization.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby eugene » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 16:17:01

The reality I see is the country is, literally, filled with "hate the government" and wants it cut regardless if it is useful or not. These are the folks who see government in the way of their personal gain. They could give a shit less who gets hurt in the process although they would scream the opposite back at me. The old "we really care" bullshit which they, in turn, really believe about themselves as it's always difficult to face one's self. They have countless tales of who, when and where things were done. Is the government perfect, of course not. I do notice those cussing the government stand in line for their particular benefit ranting how much they deserve it.

It's like when I was a therapist facing a couple who blamed each other but refused to face their own role. So we have Trump, with his serious personality disorders, who, in turn, gives shit for anyone or anything, to do their bidding. So, as the old air force song says, into the wild blue yonder headed for who knows where creating who knows how much damage.

At 75, there's a part of me that says fuck you, enjoy what you have created. You'll love it but I doubt your kids do.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 16:26:10

A bad running EPA is better than NO EPA
You can ignore reality but not its consequences
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 20:47:12

Midnight Oil wrote:....the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)... has been very effective....


You think covering up the high lead levels in the Flint water supply so tens of thousands of kids got lead poisoning and now suffer brain damage is being very effective?

I must disagree. IMHO the EPA did a horrible thing by not immediately stepping in and informing people of the risks from the lead-tainted water

Cheers!

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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Midnight Oil » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 20:54:29

CHEERS....Plant...it's ALL the EPA's fault...damn incompetent beurocrats pencil pushes...(sarcasm)... Seems to me you are either fabricating your charge are just totally ignorant of what occurred in Flint....more likely a mixture of both..
Boo Hoo...NEXT
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 22:26:10

Midnight Oil wrote:CHEERS....Plant...it's ALL the EPA's fault...damn incompetent beurocrats pencil pushes...(sarcasm)... Seems to me you are either fabricating your charge are just totally ignorant of what occurred in Flint....more likely a mixture of both..
Boo Hoo...NEXT


EPAs failure to act to protect the water supply in Flint even after they knew the water was contaminated with lead is well known. For instance, check out this report in the WaPo.

epa-should-have-intervened-in-flint-water-crisis-earlier-watchdog-says

The citizens of Flint have even filed a class action lawsuit against the EPA for its failure to protect them.

residents-of-flint-mich-sue-epa-over-water-crisis

OK--now you have no excuse for your total ignorance of the EPAs role in the Flint water crisis.

Image
Flint residents file class action lawsuit against the EPA for covering up lead pollution in the water

Cheers!
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 03 Jun 2017, 07:53:14

Midnight Oil wrote:CHEERS! Scientific American begs to differ Plant...
By most accounts the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), which turned 40 in December 2009, has been very effective.


By most accounts....they are also incompetent, and in this case in particular, above the law for the results of that incompetence. A picture being worth 1000 words.

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