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Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubbers'

Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 03 Feb 2017, 12:53:38

We are literally sacrificing the future to continue business as usual a little while longer
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Cog » Fri 03 Feb 2017, 13:24:04

The EPA needs to be purged from top to bottom.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Cog » Fri 03 Feb 2017, 15:19:08

Climate change believers want the death to occur right now and not years into the future. That way they can pick and choose who dies, with the hopes that it won't be them. The thought that simply running out of fossil fuels and let nature take its course is unfair to them.

The Gaia-worshipping nut-cases who inhabit the EPA need to be shown the door and the EPA needs to return to doing it job.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 03 Feb 2017, 17:57:59

KaiserJeep wrote:I just don't see any Doom here for 1st World countries. The Doom is all in Africa and Asia and other 3rd World places.


It may not be total, universal and complete doom, but sea level rise will eventually wipe out many major American cities.

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Check out this reconstruction of sea level in the Pliocene---the last time CO2 was this high. How many American cities can you name on the current east coast of the US that might have a problem with this?
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 03 Feb 2017, 23:02:38

New study says Antarctica will contribute about a meter to sea level rise by 2100

naturearticle#17145

Up until recently many scientists thought Antarctica was gaining mass---now its clear its losing ice fast. Combine the Antarctic meltwater component with Greenland melt and we're probably looking at 3-5 m of sea level rise by 2100 with more and more sea level rise continuing on for hundreds of years

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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Satori » Sat 04 Feb 2017, 07:42:39

The EPA has started to remove climate science information from its site

http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2017/02 ... imate.html

just waiting for the SIEG HEIL !!!
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Satori » Sat 04 Feb 2017, 17:06:47

USDA Scrubs Public Animal Welfare Records From Website

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/usd ... lg1awnrk9&
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 04 Feb 2017, 18:17:44

Cog wrote:Climate change believers want the death to occur right now and not years into the future. That way they can pick and choose who dies, with the hopes that it won't be them. The thought that simply running out of fossil fuels and let nature take its course is unfair to them.

The Gaia-worshipping nut-cases who inhabit the EPA need to be shown the door and the EPA needs to return to doing it job.


Cog,

That is pure opinion on your part. You are assessing simple motives to a wide range of folks. On the surface your statement is one of simple bigotry.

And why is your stance superior? Why is so great and wonderful about running out of fuel and letting nature take its course? Or is this simply driven by your personal theistic beliefs? So that, should I not agree with said beliefs I become branded a "nut-case."
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 04 Feb 2017, 18:32:35

Plant,

I worry little about SLR, I think that it's effects are relatively slow to develop compared to other climate change effects. SLR is serious, it just won't be in the vanguard of cc knock on problems.

I expect to see our already crippled global economy get pressed on several fronts. Food stuffs and how they are distributed will be effected. African emigration will strengthen. These things will effect the EU and how it interacts with the wider world.

I would not be supposed to see more conflict spreading out of Syria. That is already a very confusing theater with conflicting goals.

What goes on between Pakistan and India with respect to water is very interesting, and driven by cc.

I continue to believe we have never "recovered" from 2008, we've just patched over the faults with thin plaster. IMHO those faults, stressed by cc, may well cause the great unraveling.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 04 Feb 2017, 19:53:59

I just want to be clear....not that anyone really cares, or should.

I strongly believe that the scientific data and their reports should remain open to public view. We paid for them, they are our information.

All valid research should not be molested. Sure there is going to be some disagreement abut what is valid and not, but this should be treated broadly, restrictions should be the exception not the norm. There will be some waste, big deal, it's small potatoes.

I don't support politicalization of the agencies. They should be allowed to carry out their mandate without political interference. Any prior politicalization should be scrubbed. Otherwise hands off!

Let the truth out, whatever it may be.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby vox_mundi » Mon 06 Feb 2017, 20:40:15

H.R.861 - To terminate the Environmental Protection Agency

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-con ... e-bill/861

Obliterating EPA would create chaos, experts say

Many environmental protection laws create legal standing for states to enforce federally administrated regulations. Gaetz contended that without the EPA, authority for those laws would simply shift to states. But multiple professors at the University of Florida Levin College of Law contradicted him.

"A lot of states just don’t have resources available to them," said Mary Jane Angelo, professor and director of the Environmental and Land Use Law Program at the university. "Wealthier states would have better protection for their citizens’ health than poorer states."

... Alyson Flournoy, a law professor at the university and a member scholar at the liberal Center for Progressive Reform, said without federal regulations, states would enter into "a race to the bottom." She explained that as an incentive to attract industry, a portion of states would relax standards in a short-sighted economic strategy that would ultimately sacrifice public health and the environment.

Gaetz maintained states could capably regulate themselves if allowed. But in July, Florida's Environmental Regulation Commission approved new state standards that would escalate the acceptable levels of toxins in state rivers and streams for more than two dozen known carcinogens. The proposal required further approval by the EPA, but an agency spokeswoman said the state never sent it to the agency.
Last edited by vox_mundi on Mon 06 Feb 2017, 20:50:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 10 Feb 2017, 07:21:26

Most of you are ignoring the simple premise that underlies all of what is happening.

Firstly, the US Constitution does not authorise the Federal Government to engage in climate research, environmental protection, education, healthcare, or dozens of other things they have been doing which are probably illegal as they are definitely unconstitutional. These intrusions into the private lives of Americans are abuses of power, just as the quid-pro-quo legislation that makes winners and losers out of American corporations is illegal and unfair.

All of these abuses occurred when the Federal Congress, controlled by one party or the other, took upon itself to mess with the citizens for any of dozens of reasons, and passed Federal Laws that inserted itself into places where it simply was unauthorized to be, doing other illegal things that it had no right to do, and doing so under a clear abuse of power.

Whether or not you agree or disagree with whatever the Federal Government was doing, is actually irrelevant, the abuse of power is still an abuse of power. These abuses of power need to be challenged, the courts need to apply strict interpretations to the Federal Laws with respect to the Constitution, and our country must be returned to a proper path.

If you feel strongly that the US Government should be messing with your healthcare, protecting the environment, educating children in defiance of the wishes of their parents, telling women whether or not they can have abortions, seizing great tracts of land and putting them off limits to the traditional uses when such lands were under state authority, etc. etc. etc., then you can start a movement to amend the US Constitution.

These specific "enumerated powers" of the US Constitution are relatively few. This includes the power to coin money, to regulate commerce, to declare war, to raise and maintain armed forces, and to establish a Post Office. In all, the Constitution delegates 27 powers specifically to the federal government. There is no mention of healthcare, environmental protection, or hundreds of other things that they do every day, and those things should be challenged in our courts, and the specific legislation enabling them struck down.

The ragged, self-contradictory, and unorganized state of affairs with the Federal powers came about because of Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, which establishes ""necessary and proper"" so-called "implied powers".

An example of an "implied power" which makes a lot of sense is the Post Office bailout. The US Postal Service is a specific enumerated power, and Benjamin Franklin was our first PostMaster General. However, it was dying in this digital age, with falling revenues, falling mail volumes, and a very large surplus of postal workers who believed that they had the right to be paid for as long as they showed up in uniform, whether or not they had anything to do. Amazon.com began paying for Saturday and Sunday deliveries, and in the process made these people busy with a source of overtime pay. (Yes, I admit I have received the common battered weekend delivery box, and that they need further "attitude adjustment".)(This is still a good example of an implied power.)

Bad examples of implied powers are the afore-mentioned healthcare act (i.e. Obamacare) and the EPA and others. Basically, if such a broad extension of Federal Power does not have enough support to amend the Constitution, it should not become Federal Law, either.

Think of what is happening now, the disassembly of Obamacare and the EPA and other Federal over-reaches, as necessary and correct activity. These corrections of abuses must necessarily begin with the appointment of "strict interpreter" Federal judges, who will then begin to strike down the Federal Laws enacted by Congressional abuses.

I believe that the EPA should exist and have a role in protecting the environment. For example, the landmark federal legislation which outlawed the coal burning that was causing extensive defoliation due to acid rain. The establishment of standards for stack scrubbing on coal plants was a good thing. The classification of carbon dioxide as a pollutant was not a good thing.

It's the way things are supposed to work. The US Federal Government and the US Congress are supposed to be constrained and limited in power by the US Constitution.

Yes, one of those things that need to happen is that the EPA needs to stop investigating climate change, and making changes that relate to this unproven theory. That is the proper domain of another agency called NOAA - of which I approve, as once I achieved certification as a NOAA weather observer. Another such agency which has a role observing climate is NASA, with its earth-facing satellite sensors and flying aircraft observatories. But the EPA needs a reset, and I hope Trump gives them one.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 17 Feb 2017, 06:16:52

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/the- ... -one-vgtrn
The EPA Posted a Mirror of Its Website Before Trump Can Gut the Real One
The EPA's move will allow for an archive of its site to exist long after Trump eventually guts the main one.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 17 Feb 2017, 06:26:04

https://the-macroscope.org/im-a-scienti ... .b7xv6rb7k
This attack on science, and on knowledge itself, goes beyond anything we have seen in America before. And it is not only dangerous to science, it is dangerous to our nation and the world.
But the War on Science has inspired a mighty backlash. Scientists are standing up against politicians. We’ve seen rogue Twitter accounts, hundreds of op-eds, and scientists announcing they are running for office. There will even be a March for Science on April 22. It’s a popular uprising, complete with heroes in white lab coats and park ranger uniforms.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Cog » Fri 17 Feb 2017, 06:47:36

Their boss will be less than impressed if they show up in uniform.

Hatch Act Reform Amendment 1993

Prohibits any employee (except certain political appointees in specified circumstances) from engaging in political activity: (1) while on duty; (2) in any room or building occupied in the discharge of official duties by a Federal employee or official; (3) while wearing a uniform or official insignia identifying his or her office or position; or (4) while using any vehicle owned or leased by the Government
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby diemos » Fri 17 Feb 2017, 08:38:39

KaiserJeep wrote:Firstly, the US Constitution does not authorise the Federal Government to engage in climate research, environmental protection, education, healthcare, or dozens of other things they have been doing which are probably illegal as they are definitely unconstitutional.


"promote the general welfare" can pretty much cover anything you want.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby diemos » Fri 17 Feb 2017, 09:57:07

Cog wrote:Climate change believers want the death to occur right now and not years into the future. That way they can pick and choose who dies, with the hopes that it won't be them. The thought that simply running out of fossil fuels and let nature take its course is unfair to them.


For my part, I would like to preserve civilization.

Every individual on earth was dead from the moment they were conceived. It's just a matter of finding out when and of what.

So there is no such thing as picking who dies. Everyone is going to die.

Civilization on the other hand has the potential to be immortal.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 17 Feb 2017, 10:03:43

diemos wrote:
KaiserJeep wrote:Firstly, the US Constitution does not authorise the Federal Government to engage in climate research, environmental protection, education, healthcare, or dozens of other things they have been doing which are probably illegal as they are definitely unconstitutional.


"promote the general welfare" can pretty much cover anything you want.


The PREAMBLE is a list of reason why the Constitution exists, it does not codify powers to the government to achieve those goals. In the context it was written the 'general welfare' was being harmed in the opinion of the authors by the structure of the government under the Articles of Confederation. The Preamble was the sales pitch for why voters should appeal to their state representatives to adopt the Constitution, it enumerates no powers to any branch of government.
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 17 Feb 2017, 10:50:25

I think many of us can agree Govt has gotten to big. On balance in my opinion it is doing more harm than good for the population. My evolving preference is a form of anarchy. You can say it is an extreme Libertarian view that espouses NO government
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Re: Scientists scramble to safeguard data ahead of 'scrubber

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 17 Feb 2017, 11:50:22

You can practice this everyday. Render unto Caeser the minimum required to avoid encarceration and then disengage.
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