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THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Sun 06 Nov 2016, 19:56:56

Electricite de France stock price down 3.24% on Friday. This POS has been collapsing ever since the 2009 Peak Oil crash. The stock was about $80 Euros then, now $9.78.

Electricite de France is dead.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Sun 06 Nov 2016, 20:10:25

Everything nuclear is collapsing in Europe. The renewables bullshit is collapsing too. BANKRUPT. THE LIGHTS ARE GOING OFF AND THE CITIES WILL SOON BURN TO THE GROUND

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france ... 2Z0V7?il=0

French energy minister says no risk of power blackouts

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releas ... 73761.html

European Commission About to Axe Renewables Extension

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... nts-reveal

Renewables could lose European power grid priority, documents reveal
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby vox_mundi » Thu 10 Nov 2016, 08:21:50

France could face winter power cuts, hit by nuclear dependence

PARIS, Nov 8 France could impose power cuts this winter due to an electricity shortage, an unprecedented step in the wealthy nation which would expose the vulnerabilities of its dependence on nuclear power.

The warning was issued on Tuesday by grid operator RTE, which said power supply had been hit by the closure of around a third of the country's ageing nuclear reactors for safety checks. The country's regulator has ordered a review of the strength of crucial steel components after the discovery of manufacturing irregularities.

France relies on nuclear for three-quarters of its power, more than any other country. RTE said the amount of nuclear power available was at a record low for this time of year, around 10,000 megawatts lower than a year ago - equivalent to more than twice the consumption of Paris and Marseille combined. RTE President Francois Brottes told reporters at a news conference...
"During some periods of the day in winter, and during some days, we may need to use exceptional measures to guarantee the balance of electricity demand and supply on the network,"

RTE would start by boosting power imports and could also pay some industrial customers to switch off their machinery or curb usage, but Brottes said the gird operator might also have to impose short, rolling power blackouts in parts of the country.

Power supplies are likely to be most stretched in the first three weeks of December, RTE said. With about a third of French homes heated by electricity, the country is highly sensitive to cold snaps.

Unlike other nuclear countries such as the United States and China, which have used different reactor models and suppliers, all French reactors are pressurised water reactors made by the same manufacturer, a forerunner of Areva.

This standardisation allowed France to build reactors relatively quickly and cheaply, but also created the risk that a generic design flaw or manufacturing problem would affect many reactors and incapacitate a large part of the fleet. Green activists have warned of this possible scenario for years.

Britain has warned that power supply this winter will be tight, Belgium has had problems with the availability of its own nuclear reactors, Italy is chronically short of power and links with Spain have relatively low capacity.

That leaves just Germany and Switzerland as reliable backups, although Germany's large reliance on intermittent renewable energy makes it less suitable as a provider of baseload power.

"The outlook is pessimistic, notably for the first three weeks of December," said a Paris-based power trader, adding that power outages could easily happen.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 19 Nov 2016, 13:18:34

The transcripts of the discussion do not include a single use of the word “nuclear.” The climate change advocates, who frequently accuse others of denying science, are overlooking the fact that Trump’s inner circle of advisors include several who know that it is within the power of the President to take actions that can enable nuclear energy to contribute to a hugely effective CO2 and air pollution reduction program.

These visible and deeply concerned advocates are worried about the long term effects of a Trump Administration, but if the newly elected President lowers the barriers that have been created during the past four decades with the quietly stated purpose of slowing nuclear energy development, it could help him lead the most successful administration in history at reducing both air pollution and the carbon dioxide intensity of US energy production. It’s not necessary to be a believer to be an achiever.

As the US succeeds as a nuclear technology and services developer, there is little doubt that the products created will be marketed around the world. That marketing effort will help others achieve similar emissions and pollution reductions.

http://atomicinsights.com/three-nuclear ... ce-denial/
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 19 Nov 2016, 14:48:35

Sub, why a clip from Amy Goodman, the anti-nuke spokesperson? I didn't see how the clip or the short article supports your contention that Trump is pro-nuclear and intends to act on it? That would supposedly create a world-class nuclear power program here in the US or for export around the world.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 20 Nov 2016, 11:06:03

pstarr wrote:Sub, why a clip from Amy Goodman, the anti-nuke spokesperson? I didn't see how the clip or the short article supports your contention that Trump is pro-nuclear and intends to act on it? That would supposedly create a world-class nuclear power program here in the US or for export around the world.


If you read the link it is all about the hypocrisy of claiming to be worried about climate science denial while simultaneously engaging in nuclear science denial.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 20 Nov 2016, 12:19:46

Subjectivist wrote:
pstarr wrote:Sub, why a clip from Amy Goodman, the anti-nuke spokesperson? I didn't see how the clip or the short article supports your contention that Trump is pro-nuclear and intends to act on it? That would supposedly create a world-class nuclear power program here in the US or for export around the world.


If you read the link it is all about the hypocrisy of claiming to be worried about climate science denial while simultaneously engaging in nuclear science denial.
Huh? I don't worry about climate science denial, nor do I engage nuclear science denial. I accept that atoms have neutrons and the such.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Sun 20 Nov 2016, 20:51:16

As the US succeeds as a nuclear technology and services developer,


"Department of Energy, do you have some energy?"

DOE: "No, we don't have any energy"

Hence, Department of No Energy, about to be abolished forever.

All those sodium and molten salt reactor scams aren't worth a dime. Pipes leak, and the whole shebang is a writeoff. There is no such thing as nuclear technology innovation. Its all from the 50's and 60's and nobody has ever improved upon it.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 08:13:28

Switzerland votes overwhelmingly not to panic and close the nuclear power plants supplying 40 percent of their electricity. Seeing how Germany went for more coal after their vote a few years ago may have had a lot to do with it.

People in Switzerland voting in a referendum have rejected a proposal to introduce a strict timetable for phasing out nuclear power.

A projection for SRF public television showed the initiative failing by 55% to 45%.

A majority of cantons (Swiss states) voted against the initiative.

The plan, backed by the Green Party, would have meant closing three of Switzerland's five nuclear plants next year, with the last shutting in 2029.

The five plants currently generate almost 40% of Switzerland's electricity.

After the Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan, the Swiss government said it would gradually move the country towards renewable energy by 2050.

It said nuclear plants should continue to operate as long as they are deemed safe, but did not set a precise timetable.

Environmentalists have said no nuclear reactors should be allowed to operate for longer than 45 years - meaning that at least two would have had to close almost immediately.

But business leaders and the government said shutting them down too quickly could lead to power shortages and raise reliance on fossil fuels.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38120559
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby vox_mundi » Sat 03 Dec 2016, 13:37:26

Legislature passes ComEd rate hike to bail out Illinois nuclear power plants

... "What are we doing you guys? What are we doing listening to this bill? We don't have a budget and our so-called stopgap budget is just weeks away from expiring," said Rep. Sam Yingling, a Democrat from Grayslake who narrowly won re-election last month and has again been targeted for defeat by Republicans in 2018. "Instead, we are talking about a multibillion dollar corporate bailout for one of the most profitable energy companies in the state. And how are we going to finance this? This is going to be financed on the back of the rate payers."

... The power bill is a stripped-down version of an earlier measure that at one time also included subsidies for Downstate coal plants. That was abandoned following opposition from Rauner, along with a controversial provision that would have changed how customers are charged for their monthly energy use. That plan would have allowed billing based on an average of a customer's top 30 minutes of usage on weekdays.


French nuclear power in 'worst situation ever', says former EDF director

... The closures have seen Britain this week exporting electricity to France for the first time in four years. An industry report on Tuesday also warned that the offline reactors could lead to a “tense situation” for energy supply in France, in the event of a cold snap this winter.

The situation is likely to be exacerbated by damage during Storm Angus to the main cable that carries electricity back and forth between the UK and France. It is believed a boat dropping anchor during the storm may have been responsible but National Grid is investigating the cause and working to repair the Interconnexion France-Angleterre, which is buried in the seabed and heavily armoured.

The operator said that four of the eight cables in the interconnector had been damaged, reducing its capacity from 2,000MW to 1,000MW until February next year. It added that due to the French reactor closures, it had already factored in a reduction in energy supplies from France this winter.

Magnin said that instead of backing new nuclear, the UK and France should capitalise on falling wind and solar power costs and help individuals and communities to build and run their own renewable energy projects.

The UK’s business department conceded in September that by the time UK’s Hinkley Point C nuclear power station is operational the price of electricity guaranteed to EDF will be above the comparable costs for large-scale solar and onshore windfarms.


France’s nuclear-energy champion is in turmoil

THESE are difficult times for Electricité de France (EDF), the country’s quasi-monopolistic electricity provider, serving 88% of homes. Outages at no fewer than 18 of the 58 EDF-owned nuclear reactors that provide three-quarters of France’s electricity have meant a slump in production: the company says annual nuclear output could fall to 378 terawatt hours (TWH), from 417 TWH last year. Eight reactors are currently lying idle and several may not restart for weeks or months. Power stations are burning coal at a rate not seen since the 1980s. As electricity imports and prices soar, officials are having to deny that a cold snap could bring blackouts.

... The sense of crisis looks likely to grow. Yves Marignac, a nuclear-energy expert in Paris, calls EDF “already financially crippled”. Only state backing prevents EDF’s credit rating falling steeply, analysts say. And it is not only the ASN that has EDF in its sights. On November 22nd French competition officials raided its offices, seeking evidence that its dominant position is squeezing rivals and sending prices higher than they should be (even though lower electricity prices in recent years have sapped its revenues). Its share price has halved in two years.

The future looks bleak. Some four-fifths of French nuclear plants were built in a decade from the late 1970s. The plants have a 40-year lifespan, meaning that several a year face retirement over the next decade. Energy planners have assumed there will be extensions to 50 years or more. But the ASN may hesitate after the forging problems, or impose higher costs. Cyrille Cormier, a nuclear engineer who is now at Greenpeace, a campaign group that opposes nuclear power, says a total refit could cost EDF an extra €60bn-200bn.

Closing plants permanently would be extremely costly, too. France has never closed a large one. EDF may be under-provisioning the costs of decommissioning plants. It has set aside €36bn, less than the €45bn that Germany has allowed, even though France’s neighbour has a smaller nuclear fleet. Then there is nuclear waste. The five pools storing spent fuel at La Hague, Areva’s central reprocessing plant, are nearly full, says Mr Marignac. When sorrows come, they come in battalions.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby vox_mundi » Fri 23 Dec 2016, 11:49:03

Japan cancels failed $9bn Monju 'fast' nuclear reactor

Japan is a scrapping an experimental 'fast' reactor which has worked for just 250 days of its 22-year lifespan and cost $9bn (£7.2bn).

The Monju reactor, in western Japan's Fukui city, was designed to burn most of its own spent fuel, eliminating the need to deal with the nuclear waste.

But it suffered its first problems months after it went live, and has not worked properly since.

It was supposed to be relatively eco-friendly, but it's mostly a boondoggle. It would be slower and more expensive to fully restart the reactor than to shut it down (the equivalent of $4.6 billion versus $3.2 billion)

The closure won't be speedy. Crews wouldn't finish removing used nuclear fuel from Monju until 2022, and it wouldn't be completely dismantled until 2047. That's 61 years after construction began.


https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/22/jap ... prototype/
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby kiwichick » Wed 28 Dec 2016, 05:18:28

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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby dissident » Thu 29 Dec 2016, 09:40:57

vox_mundi wrote:Japan cancels failed $9bn Monju 'fast' nuclear reactor

Japan is a scrapping an experimental 'fast' reactor which has worked for just 250 days of its 22-year lifespan and cost $9bn (£7.2bn).

The Monju reactor, in western Japan's Fukui city, was designed to burn most of its own spent fuel, eliminating the need to deal with the nuclear waste.

But it suffered its first problems months after it went live, and has not worked properly since.

It was supposed to be relatively eco-friendly, but it's mostly a boondoggle. It would be slower and more expensive to fully restart the reactor than to shut it down (the equivalent of $4.6 billion versus $3.2 billion)

The closure won't be speedy. Crews wouldn't finish removing used nuclear fuel from Monju until 2022, and it wouldn't be completely dismantled until 2047. That's 61 years after construction began.


https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/22/jap ... prototype/


This reactor had one of the most uninspired designs in the world. It was basically a makeover a water-cooled design and not a design from scratch. France already developed the molten-metal, unpressurized vat design by the 1970s. But for some reason we have taxpayer milking operations such as the Monju that purport to "study" fast neutron reactors. Either come up with something better or refine a clearly superior existing design.

https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/file ... 782938.pdf

All the loop designs are plumbing nightmares and inherently less safe than pool designs:

Image

Clearly, with the loop design it is possible to lose the metal coolant which would result in a core meltdown. The pool design prevents this scenario and the amount of metal is large enough to provide passive cooling even if all the pumps fail.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby vox_mundi » Thu 29 Dec 2016, 12:36:28

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby vox_mundi » Thu 05 Jan 2017, 19:44:22

U.S. plans to name nuclear reactors using potentially flawed Areva parts

The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission told French nuclear power company Areva SA. it will publish as early as next week the names of U.S. reactors that contain components from its Le Creusot forge that is suspected of falsifying documents despite the company's claim that the information is proprietary.

The written notice, dated Dec. 30 and seen by Reuters on Thursday, underscores rising tension between the U.S. nuclear regulatory body and Areva after French authorities opened an investigation last month into decades of alleged forgery relating to the quality of parts produced at the forge and used in power plants around the world.

Areva sent the names of at least nine U.S. reactors with parts from Le Creusot on Dec. 15, but asked the agency not to name them due to proprietary business concerns.

Too late.

... Florida power company NextEra Energy Inc (NEE.N) said it had one reactor with one component from the Le Creusot forge but did not name the part or the reactor. NextEra owns eight reactors - four in Florida, two in Wisconsin, one in New Hampshire and one in Iowa.

Minnesota power company Xcel Energy Inc (XEL.N) said some components of the two reactor vessels at its Prairie Island plant were made at Le Creusot in the early 1970s.

In December, Dominion Resources Inc (D.N) said that its Millstone station in Connecticut has had a pressurizer from Le Creusot in service since 2006.

In addition, FirstEnergy Corp (FE.N) said its Beaver Valley reactor in Pennsylvania has steam generators and reactor vessel heads manufactured by Spain's Equipos Nucleares SA, or ENSA, which may contain some components from Le Creusot. The parts were installed in Unit 1 but will not be installed in Unit 2 for a few years.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby kublikhan » Thu 05 Jan 2017, 20:14:10

Sounds like the plot to The China Syndrome. Faulty metallurgy covered up by falsified evidence allows substandard parts into a nuclear power plant. Then the company responsible wants to hush up the whole thing.

During an inspection of the plant before it is brought back online, Godell discovers a puddle of radioactive water that has apparently leaked from a pump. Godell investigates further and finds that a series of radiographs supposedly taken to verify the integrity of welds on the leaking pump are identical - the contractor simply kept submitting the same picture.

He tries to bring the evidence to plant manager Herman DeYoung (Brady), who brushes off Godell as paranoid and states that new radiographs would cost at least $20 million. Godell confronts D.B. Royce, an employee of Foster-Sullivan, the construction company who built the plant, as it was Royce who signed off on the welding radiographs. Godell threatens to go to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, but Royce threatens him; and later a pair of goons from Foster-Sullivan parks outside his house.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 05 Jan 2017, 20:33:13

Wasn't the so-called 'China Syndrome' merely a fictional movie theme? I didn't really happen, you know.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Thu 05 Jan 2017, 21:05:29

pstarr wrote:Wasn't the so-called 'China Syndrome' merely a fictional movie theme? I didn't really happen, you know.



Even in that stupid movie the safeties kicked in and prevented a meltdown.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby vox_mundi » Fri 06 Jan 2017, 15:07:08

Indian Point Nuclear Power Plant to Close by 2021

The Indian Point nuclear plant will shut down by April 2021 under an agreement New York State reached this week with Entergy, the utility company that owns the facility in Westchester County, according to a person with direct knowledge of the deal.

Under the terms of the agreement, one of the two nuclear reactors at Indian Point will permanently cease operations by April 2020, while the other must be closed by April 2021. The shutdown has long been a priority for Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, who — though supportive of upstate nuclear plants — has repeatedly called for shutting down Indian Point, which he says poses too great a risk to New York City, less than 30 miles to the south.

“Why you would allow Indian Point to continue to operate defies common sense, planning and basic sanity,” Mr. Cuomo told reporters in June.

Entergy has agreed to make repairs and safety upgrades, including transferring spent fuel to what the state says is a safer storage system.

From the Executive Summary: Review of Emergency Preparedness of Areas Adjacent to Indian Point and Millstone
1 - The plans are built on compliance with regulations, rather than a strategy that leads to structures and systems to protect from radiation exposure.

2 - The plans appear based on the premise that people will comply with official government directions rather than acting in accordance with what they perceive to be their best interests.

3 - The plans do not consider the possible additional ramifications of a terrorist caused event.

4 - The plans do not consider the reality and impacts of spontaneous evacuation.

5 – Response exercises designed to test the plans are of limited use in identifying inadequacies and improving subsequent responses.


These planning problems are more serious because of the large population concentrations near the Indian Point plant, and when the effectiveness of the plan requires a degree of public and responder confidence that is largely absent.

... it is our conclusion that the current radiological response system and capabilities are not adequate to overcome their combined weight and protect the people from an unacceptable dose of radiation in the event of a release from Indian Point. We believe this is especially true if the release is faster or larger than the typical exercise scenario.

Plume information is currently not available through operable automation systems that can show the State and counties the precise areas that are at risk.

Image

298,013 residents live in the 10-mile plume emergency planning zone.
972,748 residents live in the 20-mile plume emergency planning zone.
2,819,946 residents live in the 30-mile plume emergency planning zone.
7,150,492 residents live in the 40-mile plume emergency planning zone
11,782,401 residents live in the 50-mile plume emergency planning zone.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 8 (merged)

Unread postby wineberry » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 09:17:55

What will replace Indian Point's energy, natural gas? Are we still using belchers in the NE and getting nat gas from abroad?
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