[Quinny]

Who said?

"All men are created equal, they are endowed by their creator with certain inalianable rights; among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

This immortal statement was madde in the declaration of Independance of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense this means: All the peoples on earth are equal from birth, all the peoples have a right to life, to be happy and free."

[GHung]

Looked good on paper.

[onlooker]

Those words will always ring loud and true, to those who seek to find communion, solidarity and commonality with all others. Thanks Quinny.

[sparky]

.
All men are not equal ,

a creator is an unproved hypothesis ,some would say an imaginary construct

there are no "rights" , only possibilities and those are most certainly alienable

[Outcast_Searcher]

Looked good on paper.

Though things have slipped in the past 50 years, this ideal certainly still looks pretty good in the US compared to most places -- disappointing as the corruption emanating from Capitol Hill is.

Are you saying it's much better elsewhere? If you say yes, and use Scandanavia as an example (people often do), I'll point out that having most of your income confiscated by the state puts a mighty big dent in the "liberty" column -- for one example.

Or are you making the imperfect the enemy of the good?

[Outcast_Searcher]

.
All men are not equal ,

a creator is an unproved hypothesis ,some would say an imaginary construct

there are no "rights" , only possibilities and those are most certainly alienable

I think this is just semantics.

I'll agree there is no (conscious) creator -- that's besides the primary point.

The idea of equality is that people should have the same RIGHTS -- and those shouldn't be affected by what family they are born under. The right not to be held in slavery, for example. As far as I know, despite the frequent whining about "wage slaves" from the left, it's not legal to own slaves in the US, and people in the US are free to change jobs. (Clearly we're not physically equal -- that's the gene lottery and that's also beside the point).

Saying there are no rights is just your opinion. Just like the constitution saying there are rights was an opinion. The fact that the US mostly thrived under a system based on that opinion lends it quite a bit of credibility, IMO. Calling rights possibilities, IMO, is where I think you're just dealing in semantics. (One must have rights to be FREE to pursue possibilities).

(There sure are a lot of good hits on Google under "rights of American citizens" if such rights don't exist.)

[onlooker]

.
All men are not equal ,

a creator is an unproved hypothesis ,some would say an imaginary construct

there are no "rights" , only possibilities and those are most certainly alienable

I think this is just semantics.

Furthermore, I think this analysis by Sparky is a evaluation of the way things are throughout much of the world if not all the world. The purpose of these words above all is to describe how things should be in regards to how we treat each other. In particular to emphasize that our rights and equality is not derived from the consent of anyone but are and should be the natural order of things even if the mention of God is substituted for Nature or Natural.

[GHung]

Looked good on paper.

Though things have slipped in the past 50 years, this ideal certainly still looks pretty good in the US compared to most places -- disappointing as the corruption emanating from Capitol Hill is.

Are you saying it's much better elsewhere? If you say yes, and use Scandanavia as an example (people often do), I'll point out that having most of your income confiscated by the state puts a mighty big dent in the "liberty" column -- for one example.

Or are you making the imperfect the enemy of the good?

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” - Orwell

We're just an animal farm, OS, and your rights are only as equal as your ability to afford those rights. Why do you think prisons are largely populated by poor people? Think rich folks don't break the same laws?

The Declaration is one of the greatest documents ever created, and like many great documents, is an ideal we haven't lived up to as a collective.

[ROCKMAN]

"All men are created equal, they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Yes but that’s the easy part of the calculus. Once created how does one go about insuring equality? Africans at the time of those words were “created equal” but Arab slavers selling them to American colonialists altered that reality very quickly. And it took the death of 600,000 Americans to just begin re-endowing those “inalienable rights”. Yes: life…until it is illegally taken from you. Liberty until you defy whatever “laws” you are bound by. And while one is free to pursue happiness there are many systems (reasonable and not) that stand in your way.

In a way it’s like some of the well intentioned “solutions” to the energy situation often presented here: admirable goals but often lacking specific means to reach those goals. Yes, equal: not tell me exactly how that equality is being delivered to millions of Syrian refugees. And that’s just one of many sad examples.

[PrestonSturges]

"All Men Are Created Equal" can be described as an "As If" philosophical assumption, which greatly influenced the early psychoanalyst Alfred Adler.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Vaihinger

Hans Vaihinger (German: [hans ˈfaɪɪŋɐ];[1] September 25, 1852 – December 18, 1933) was a German philosopher, best known as a Kant scholar and for his Die Philosophie des Als Ob (The Philosophy of 'As if'), published in 1911 but written more than thirty years earlier.[2][3]

[Outcast_Searcher]

"All men are created equal, they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Yes but that’s the easy part of the calculus. Once created how does one go about insuring equality? Africans at the time of those words were “created equal” but Arab slavers selling them to American colonialists altered that reality very quickly. And it took the death of 600,000 Americans to just begin re-endowing those “inalienable rights”. Yes: life…until it is illegally taken from you. Liberty until you defy whatever “laws” you are bound by. And while one is free to pursue happiness there are many systems (reasonable and not) that stand in your way.

In a way it’s like some of the well intentioned “solutions” to the energy situation often presented here: admirable goals but often lacking specific means to reach those goals. Yes, equal: not tell me exactly how that equality is being delivered to millions of Syrian refugees. And that’s just one of many sad examples.

Well gee Rock. Unless you want the US to overthrow the entire planet and dictate that the US constitution is to be the law everywhere, why is it the US's fault that there are problems (with other systems) outside the US? The last time I checked, lots of people frowned on US military adventurism, so I doubt such a step would be exactly welcomed -- or would have been welcomed or practical or even possible at the time of the slavery occurring in Africa.

Stating a principle one believes in doesn't mean that principle will be universally adopted, or adopted at all. I think that as a principle, people should treat each other with respect. Guess what? Some people do the opposite, including killing people. Hint: that doesn't make it my fault.

I don't see how blaming the US for allowing slavery in Africa at the time of the Declaration of Independence makes rights, like say, the right of free speech anything but a good idea. Even though free speech in the US has frequently come under attack, legal and otherwise, many times -- with notable exceptions, it remains a solid principle in force today. It's a right I'm enjoying in fact, even as I type.

[regardingpo]

I don't see how blaming the US for allowing slavery in Africa at the time of the Declaration of Independence bla bla

He was talking about slavery in the US or are we forgetting about that?

Declaration in of independence 1776
Abolition of slavery 1865 in theory, though in practice it was a different story (Slavery by Another Name comes to mind)

Also, colonial expansion at the expense of Native "americans" continued after 1776. So much about equality.

[Quinny]

Who said the quote though?

[Quinny]

No answers? Does no one know?

If I add the next sentence does it help?

"All men are created equal, they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

This immortal statement was made in the declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense this means: All the peoples on earth are equal from birth, all the peoples have a right to life, to be happy and free.

The Declaration of the French Revolution made in 1791 on the Rights of Man and the Citizen also states: “All men are born free and with equal rights, and must always remain free and have equal rights.”

Those are undeniable truths."

[Quinny]

I found it interesting, obviously 'epic fail' as no-one else did.

In Vietnam at the moment and it was the beginning of Vietnam's Declaration of Independence speech by Ho Chi Minh!

[ennui2]

having most of your income confiscated by the state puts a mighty big dent in the "liberty" column

Happiness is more important than narrow definitions of liberty (like limiting federal power, taxation, and social programs). On that basis, Scandinavia's got the US beat many times over.

And the most miserable places in the US are the most conservative (bible belt).

[Quinny]

Having most of your income confiscated by landlords and banks isn't much good for liberty either!

[Cid_Yama]

Why not hand them the whole thing.

On September 2, 1945, Hồ Chí Minh read the Proclamation during a public meeting in front of thousands of people, at what is now Ba Đình Square, Hà Nội, announcing the birth of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the country's independence from France.

Compatriots of the entire nation assembled:

All men are created equal; they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights; among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

This immortal statement was made in the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense, this means: All the peoples on the earth are equal from birth, all the peoples have a right to live, to be happy and free.

The Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen of the French Revolution made in 1791 also states: All men are born free and with equal rights, and must always remain free and have equal rights.
Those are undeniable truths.

Nevertheless, for more than eighty years, the French imperialists, abusing the standard of Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity, have violated our Fatherland and oppressed our fellow citizens. They have acted contrary to the ideals of humanity and justice.

In the field of politics, they have deprived our people of every democratic liberty.

They have enforced inhuman laws; they have set up three distinct political regimes in the North, Center, and South of Vietnam in order to destroy our national unity and prevent our people from being united.
They have built more prisons than schools. They have mercilessly slaughtered our patriots; they have drowned our uprisings in bloodbaths.
They have fettered public opinion; they have practiced obscurantism against our people.
To weaken our race they have forced us to use opium and alcohol.

In the field of economics, they have fleeced us to the backbone, impoverished our people and devastated our land.
They have robbed us of our rice fields, our mines, our forests, and our raw materials. They have monopolized the issuing of bank notes and the export trade.
They have invented numerous unjustifiable taxes and reduced our people, especially our peasantry, to a state of extreme poverty.

They have hampered the prospering of our national bourgeoisie; they have mercilessly exploited our workers.
In the autumn of 1940, when the Japanese fascists violated Indochina's territory to establish new bases in their fight against the Allies, the French imperialists went down on their bended knees and handed over our country to them. Thus, from that date, our people were subjected to the double yoke of the French and the Japanese. Their sufferings and miseries increased. The result was that, from the end of last year to the beginning of this year, from Quảng Trị Province to northern Vietnam, more than two million of our fellow citizens died from starvation.

On March 9 [1945], the French troops were disarmed by the Japanese. The French colonialists either fled or surrendered, showing that not only were they incapable of "protecting" us, but that, in the span of five years, they had twice sold our country to the Japanese.

On several occasions before March 9, the Việt Minh League urged the French to ally themselves with it against the Japanese. Instead of agreeing to this proposal, the French colonialists so intensified their terrorist activities against the Việt Minh members that before fleeing they massacred a great number of our political prisoners detained at Yên Bái and Cao Bằng.

Notwithstanding all this, our fellow citizens have always manifested toward the French a tolerant and humane attitude. Even after the Japanese Putsch of March 1945, the Việt Minh League helped many Frenchmen to cross the frontier, rescued some of them from Japanese jails, and protected French lives and property.
From the autumn of 1940, our country had in fact ceased to be a French colony and had become a Japanese possession. After the Japanese had surrendered to the Allies, our whole people rose to regain our national sovereignty and to found the Democratic Republic of Vietnam.

The truth is that we have wrested our independence from the Japanese and not from the French.
The French have fled, the Japanese have capitulated, Emperor Bảo Đại has abdicated. Our people have broken the chains which for nearly a century have fettered them and have won independence for the Fatherland. Our people at the same time have overthrown the monarchic regime that has reigned supreme for dozens of centuries. In its place has been established the present Democratic Republic.

For these reasons, we, the members of the Provisional Government, representing the whole Vietnamese people, declare that from now on we break off all relations of a colonial character with France; we repeal all the international obligation that France has so far subscribed to on behalf of Viet-Nam, and we abolish all the special rights the French have unlawfully acquired in our Fatherland.

The whole Vietnamese people, animated by a common purpose, are determined to fight to the bitter end against any attempt by the French colonialists to reconquer the country.
We are convinced that the Allied nations, which at Tehran and San Francisco have acknowledged the principles of self-determination and equality of nations, will not refuse to acknowledge the independence of Vietnam.

A people who have courageously opposed French domination for more than eighty years, a people who have fought side by side with the Allies against the fascists during these last years, such a people must be free and independent!

For these reasons, we, the members of the Provisional Government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, solemnly declare to the world that:
Vietnam has the right to be a free and independent country—and in fact it is so already. And thus the entire Vietnamese people are determined to mobilize all their physical and mental strength, to sacrifice their lives and property in order to safeguard their independence and liberty.

link

[Quinny]

Thanks Cid - it was on its way!

Just reading his prison diaries, a very interesting guy. Not at all as he was portrayed by western media, but that's no surprise. How can anyone argue with the above declaration, but they did!