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Israel/Syria

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Israel/Syria

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 02 Dec 2015, 08:30:37

Israel extremely nervous over Russian operations on its Golan border
Military sources report that this week, the show of optimism is giving way to an uneasy sensation in the offices of the prime minister, Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon and the IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Gady. They suspect an ulterior motive behind Russia’s military movements in southern Syria, especially its air strikes against Syrian rebels, just across from Israel’s Golan border.

In particular, Moscow may be giving Hizballah and Iran an umbrella for achieving their longstanding design to displace the Syrian rebels with Revolutionary Guards and Hizballah forces and deploy them along Israel’s Golan border.

This suspicion gained ground when Tuesday, Dec. 1, the day after the Putin-Netanyahu encounter, the combined Iranian-Syrian-Hizballah units expanded their thrust from the southern Syrian town of Deraa to the Golan town of Quneitra, within sight of Israel’s defense positions.

All that day, heavy battles raged over the rebel-held line of hills running from a point just south of Quneitra to the Israeli-Syrian-Jordanian border junction. The combined force was supported by Russian air strikes and heavy tanks and artillery, seen for the first time in this war arena.

When the fighting resumed Wednesday, the IDF placed its Golan units on high alert and an extra-vigilant eye was trained on this battle.

The Iranian-Syrian-Hizballah side is gaining a distinct advantage from the deep feud dividing rebel ranks. The Islamic State and the al-Qaeda-affiliated Syrian Nusra Front forces are tearing into each other with suicide bombers and explosive cars. Tuesday, an ISIS-rigged bomb car blew up at Nusra headquarters near Quneitra.

But this also means that an Islamic State force has come dangerously close to the Israeli border.

However, even more perils are in store if Bashar Assad’s army backed by Iran, Hizballah and Russia manages to capture the hills opposite the Golan:

1. Two years of unrelenting Israeli military and intelligence efforts to keep Hizballah and Iranian forces away from its Golan border will have gone to naught.

2. Hizballah will open the door for Iranian Revolutionary Guards officers to set up a command center right up to the Israeli border.

3. Israel’s steadfast policy and military action to prevent advanced Iranian weapons reaching Hizballah in Lebanon via Syria will be superseded. On the Golan, Hizballah will have gained direct access to any weapons it wants directly from Syria and be able to deploy them at far shorter distances from Israeli targets than from their firing positions in Lebanon.

4. Vladimir Putin attaches extreme importance to recovering southern Syria from the rebel forces backed by the US and Israel, because he regards the threat to the Assad regime as great from the south as it is from the north or the center.

5. Israel faces a grave dilemma between keeping up its “honeymoon” with Moscow by giving way on its essential security interests, or taking the bull by the horns and keeping the enemy at bay, whatever the cost to the understanding reached with Putin.

Officials in Jerusalem point out that the threat to Golan peaked just hours after the Russian leader met the prime minister in Paris. Putin is conducting a hands-on policy on Syria and keeps close track of the slightest occurrence on the battlefield. He must have been perfectly aware of the state of play on the Golan when he met Netanyahu, but nonetheless kept it out of their conversation.

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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 02 Dec 2015, 14:32:04

Israel biggest buyer of Islamic State oil ?
According to the Associated Press, IS controls almost all of Syria’s oil fields, concentrated in the east of the country and producing some 30,000 barrels a day, along with one field in Iraq. It smuggles most abroad, mainly to Turkey, selling at cut-rate prices and generating nearly $50 million a month.
...
In August the Financial Times reported Israel obtains up to 75 percent of its oil supplies from Iraqi Kurdistan, having imported nearly 1 billion dollars’ worth of oil from the region in the past few months alone.

According to the report, Israel purchased 19 million barrels of Kurdish oil, worth roughly $1 billion, between May and August of this year. The massive amount meets two-thirds of the Jewish state’s oil needs and may be a way to covertly support the Kurds’ fight against the Islamic State, the report said.

“Israeli demand runs at roughly 240,000 barrels per day. More than a third of all of the northern Iraqi exports, which are shipped from Turkey’s Mediterranean port of Ceyhan, went to Israel over the period,” read the report. Industry sources said Israel may have stored or exported some of the oil.

The Kurdistan Regional Government denied selling the oil “directly or indirectly” to Israel, but said that its main concern was funding the battle against IS and preserving the functioning of government.

“We do not care where the oil goes once we have delivered it to the traders,” a senior Kurdish government adviser in Erbil told the Financial Times. “Our priority is getting the cash to fund our peshmerga forces against Daesh [the Arabic term for IS] and to pay civil servants’ salaries.”

The report stressed that Israel aside, the Kurds in Iraq have exported oil to Italy, France and Greece, deepening a dispute between the Kurds and the Iraqi leadership over oil exports.

An Islamic State representative told Al Araby Al-Jadeed the group did not intend to provide oil to Israel but was not involved in the process once it was sold on.

“To be fair, the [IS] organisation sells oil from caliphate territories but does not aim to sell it to Israel or any other country,” he said. “It produces and sells it via mediators, then companies, who decide whom to sell it to.”
The ISIS guy thinks it's unfair to suggest they are selling oil to Israel.

A Foreign Ministry spokesperson in Jerusalem said the report was “groundless science fiction.”
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 02 Dec 2015, 22:02:34

Oil is fungible. Except for the direct purchaser, such as Turkey, who purchases from both the Kurds and ISIS, you can't say where the oil comes from.

Since Israel gets their oil from Turkey, some of it comes from every supplier to Turkey. You can't say Israel paid the Kurds by way of Turkey. Israel paid Turkey, and Turkey paid it's suppliers, whoever they be. Including ISIS.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 02 Dec 2015, 22:56:08

Cid_Yama wrote:Oil is fungible. Except for the direct purchaser, such as Turkey, who purchases from both the Kurds and ISIS, you can't say where the oil comes from.

Since Israel gets their oil from Turkey, some of it comes from every supplier to Turkey. You can't say Israel paid the Kurds by way of Turkey. Israel paid Turkey, and Turkey paid it's suppliers, whoever they be. Including ISIS.
Wasn't the embargo against Iran better enforced?
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 10:26:16

Israel's New Best Friend: Russia
An early verdict suggests that Israel - with Russia itself and the Assad regime - is one of the winners of the Russian initiative.

Israeli and Russia are not simply "de-conflicting". They are "coordinating" in Syrian airspace. A well-informed Arab diplomat with wide-ranging regional experience explained to me that Israel and Russia are conducting joint reconnaissance and intelligence gathering and evaluation over Syria.

"The planes are flying together. Information is relayed to the Russian centre at Latakia, where it is evaluated and passed on to Israel," he said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Netanyahu are like cougars in a cage, wary of each other but determined to establish a mutually beneficial working relationship.

Since their first meeting in September, Netanyahu has won Putin's recognition of long-standing core Israeli security interests in Syria and the means by which it protects them.

"During our meeting in Moscow," Netanyahu recently explained, "I stood up for our principles: Israel attacks whoever attacks it. We will not allow Iran to transfer deadly weapons to Hezbollah from Syrian territory, or at least we will do everything in our power to prevent it; and we will not allow Iran to open an additional terrorist front against us in the Golan."

In a series of ongoing discussions that continue at senior levels, the alliance on Syria is maturing. There are multiple dimensions to this effort:

in their first meeting in September and in subsequent talks since then, the clarity over guiding policies for both parties has been achieved.

A working system of political and military consultation has been established, at both operational and senior military and intelligence levels. "Rules of the game" being played by Netanyahu and Putin in Syria continue to be refined and expanded.

In operational terms, Israeli planes continued to fly unchallenged - probably throughout Syrian airspace and not only along the Golan frontier - "cooperating" with Russia and "de-conflicting" with Washington.

In recent days, a major Israeli military exercise was announced, offering a real world opportunity to put joint understandings to an operational test.

Netanyahu declared himself "very satisfied" with the new relationship, and Putin confirmed this positive assessment.

Israel's forgiving response to Russian violations of Israel's airspace (probably over the occupied Golan Heights) highlights the good relations between the two countries.

Cooperation with the Russian air campaign necessarily signals that Israel has moved far more explicitly than has previously been the case in the pro-Damascus, anti-opposition column. By doing so, Jerusalem joins not only allies in Amman and Cairo, but also enemies in Dahiya, Baghdad and Tehran in the bloody contest for Damascus.

In the process, Syria has become yet another arena of disagreement between Washington and Jerusalem.

link

I guess we no longer have to worry about Israel's security, Israel's new friend has taken over he job.

Thus, one more obstacle has been removed (actually the major one), to our disengaging from the Middle East all together.

Let's count our blessings and get the hell out. There are much better things we can do with our billions.

If we stop being seen as connected at the hips to Israel, and we are no longer in the region, maybe the terrorists will direct their animosities elsewhere.

Time for the rest of the world to provide for their own security.

Post Script:
From the original post from right-wing Debka files, it appears that some of Israel's upper level military officials are not so happy with Netanyahu and Putin's new 'relationship'. Trust is a hard thing to do in Israel. But Israel's new joint venture with Russia does explain why Israel didn't bomb the crap out of those fighting inside Syria near their borders.
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Fri 04 Dec 2015, 10:57:13, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 10:39:31

Russia hasn't dropped the real bomb shell, and they're in a position to make it happen.

Assad, as the legitimate head of state of Syria, could very well sign a peace agreement, acknowledging the cease fire lines as the final borders (which are plenty far south enough of Damascus to make fussing over specifics pointless anyway). Making the sale to Hezbollah might be kinda hard, but also maybe not as hard as one might think.

Syria offering a peace agreement acceptable to Israel would radically destabilize our management of the situation.

I do think the folks in Damascus would probably be ready for this; a future where they can just drive in to Haifa to shop, seems far better than clinging to a conflict 30-50 yrs in the past. After all, its not Israel that is trying to dismantle Syria; its a bunch of Wahabbi nutbars funded by Saudi Arabia; in war Israel stopped when they had enough to provide some security; the Saudi's want the Allawites crucified and decapitated.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 10:51:39

I was about to say, all Russia has to do is guarantee Israel's Golan border. That would do it.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Cog » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 11:48:09

Russia doesn't need to guarantee anything. The Syrians are in no shape to mess with Israel. The last time it did happen resulted in a lot of destroyed Syrian armor and aircraft.

The Syrian army has been a joke since I've been alive. Little better than checkpoint guards.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 12:29:49

/facepalm

Of course Syria is not a threat to Israel. THAT IS THE POINT. That is why a peace settlement with Syria is both possible, and fundamentally destabilizing of OUR position (not Israels, and not Syrias). Israel's problem is that they are "at war" with their neighbors; not that they are in real danger. A solid trading partner with some oil export production is made difficult and complicated by an unsettled war that happened decades ago. Syria has no chance of recovering that land, has far more dangerous enemies, and has much to gain, if they only just say the magic words, "We acknowledge Israel's right to exist, and accept the borders as defined by the ceasefire agreement as the final territorial borders between the State of Israel and the State of Syria."

Whole middle east would go bonkers.

Hezbollah is probably, right now, realizing their real enemy never was Israel. It was Saudi Arabia.
Israel doesn't give a flip whether Iran exists or not. Or whether Shia, Sunni, or widgits run Syria. Israel just wants to not be attacked by their neighbors.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 13:26:52

Cid_Yama wrote:I was about to say, all Russia has to do is guarantee Israel's Golan border. That would do it.

???

How would that change anything? The Saudi royals and the Gulf poobahs are already (unofficially) in bed with their natural allies, the State of the Jewish People. Would they suddenly become buddies of Syria and stop fuelling the conflict?
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 13:38:59

Yall anti-zionist folks need to get with the program. The zionists do not care about Saudi,they do not care about Syria, and they do not care about Iran.

They care about Israel.

If stabbing every single one of their allies in the back nets them a recognized border and peace with their neighbors, they'll do it faster than you can blink an eye. Such extravagance is not however, necessary.

This is not to say it'll happen of course. I'm just pointing out that Putin has, in this conflict, a couple very large cards he can play, pretty much at any time, that would radically alter our world, and we wouldn't be able to beans to prevent it. This is true in the South China Sea issue as well. That he would be bold enough to take Crimea tells me he *is* willing to play the big&bold cards if he can get value out of them; my curiosity just drives me nuts about whether and which engagements in the future will prove sufficiently valuable for him to do so.

And no Cog, they aren't military, or even really related to a contest of force between NATO & Rus.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 14:35:31

AgentR11 wrote:If stabbing every single one of their allies in the back nets them a recognized border and peace with their neighbors, they'll do it faster than you can blink an eye.
Some kings and dictators might sign such a paper with guns at their heads and/or bribes and/or protection for their regimes. Will that paper be worth any more than Syria's current internationally recognized border? Israel will still be a Euro-American colony on stolen real estate.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 14:44:26

Sorry, but international law is pretty clear, if two bordering countries decide on a delineated border.. .that's it. End of discussion. They need not ask anyone else permission or approval.

And, I'll also assert, that Syria's internationally recognized border is worth quite a bit right now; in fact, that border could likely be the difference between a world ending invocation of Art 5; and a "so sad, to bad" tweet. If Turkish troops in formation, invade Syria and get splattered by Russian air.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 14:58:38

AgentR11 wrote:Sorry, but international law is pretty clear, if two bordering countries decide on a delineated border.. .that's it. End of discussion. They need not ask anyone else permission or approval.

And, I'll also assert, that Syria's internationally recognized border is worth quite a bit right now; in fact, that border could likely be the difference between a world ending invocation of Art 5; and a "so sad, to bad" tweet. If Turkish troops in formation, invade Syria and get splattered by Russian air.

It doesn't stop foreigners from arming, funding and training "freedom fighters" in Syria. Why would it be different for Israel?
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Cog » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 15:04:15

Perhaps Iran should sign off on this peace treaty first. Lead by example and perhaps Syria will follow through. As far as Hezbollah, their intent and stated mission is to destroy the state of Israel. And who supports and funds Hezbollah? Iran of course.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 15:52:28

Keith_McClary wrote:It doesn't stop foreigners from arming, funding and training "freedom fighters" in Syria. Why would it be different for Israel?


Simple, right now Syria does not recognize Isreal as having the right to exist in its current location. An actual peace treaty with an agreed upon border would fundamentally change that on the nternational scale. Even if Assads successor next week or 50 years from now decided to revoke the treaty, it's existence now would change the dynamics of international politics.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Synapsid » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 18:04:30

AgentR11,

"...the Saudis want the Allawites [sic] crucified and decapitated."

C'mon AgentR: It's decapitation first, then crucify the body.

These things are important.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 18:37:53

My apologies for the grave error.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Synapsid » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 19:38:16

AgentR,

Mercutio couldn't have said it better.
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Re: Israel/Syria

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 22:00:03

Subjectivist wrote:
Keith_McClary wrote:It doesn't stop foreigners from arming, funding and training "freedom fighters" in Syria. Why would it be different for Israel?


Simple, right now Syria does not recognize Isreal as having the right to exist in its current location. An actual peace treaty with an agreed upon border would fundamentally change that on the nternational scale. Even if Assads successor next week or 50 years from now decided to revoke the treaty, it's existence now would change the dynamics of international politics.
Why would Assad do this? He knows Israel and the West will stab him in the back at the first opportunity, like Gaddafi and Saddam after they gave up their WMDs.
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