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Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

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Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 12:05:09

Image
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/barack-o ... ns-1224089
The United States, France and allied countries are bombing Islamic State militants, who have exploited power vacuums to seize parts of Syria and neighboring Iraq as part of a stated goal of creating an Islamic caliphate.
***********************

Lets take the race to Raqqa like Berlin 1945

USA from East and RUS from West

Clap your hands and ISIS in Syria+ Iraq is history.

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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 13:18:20

Obama just gave a speech in Turkey at the G20 meeting saying he hasn't changed his strategy a bit.

That means the US is still seeking to depose Assad and is arming groups who fight Assad while Russia entered the war in Syria specifically to support Assad and is arming Assad and mainly bombing the US-backed groups in Syria to support the ongoing Assad attacks on them.

At best Obama and Putin will continue to wage a proxy war over Assad but perhaps agree to jointly take on ISIS?
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 13:53:08

Yep, they sat down at a coffee table with the cameras on, at the G20, with two translators / aides and had a serious huddle for like a solid 35 minutes.

Image

"President Obama and President Putin agreed on the need for a Syrian-led and Syrian-owned political transition, which would be proceeded by UN-mediated negotiations between the Syrian opposition and regime as well a ceasefire," a White House official said.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/16/obama-putin-go-head-to-head-on-g-20-sidelines.html


So they made some kind of basic agreement.

And now the WH is starting to say that Russia is hitting ISIS targets and they're giving Russia credit for striking at ISIS and not just the other rebels.

I won't rant about it, but a general concern is just that one has to be suspect of Russia when they suddenly start talking and have all these great ideas and want to be so helpful. One has to wonder what that's about, a lot of times throughout this Syria crisis Russia has come in at the last minute really to just gum up the works and derail everything, just as the West is getting unified and about ready to solve something.
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 13:58:28



Look at the body language in that picture.

Putin looks like a salesman and Obama is standing back and warily shaking his hand, like a customer that just got sold on something and already has buyer's remorse and really doesn't even want to shake the salesman's hand.
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 14:07:48

Plantagenet wrote:Obama just gave a speech in Turkey at the G20 meeting saying he hasn't changed his strategy a bit.


CNN played a snippet of it. Obama saying "some say we need to have a lot of American troops on the ground. But my military advisors tell me that's just not a good idea."

Mmmhm, sheesh.

So see, the world looks to America to lead, they want a coalition to be formed, but the leader is just not there.

And so everyone turns to Russia, our president included, as if Russia can solve it all. When Russia is that one that has a policy of frozen conflicts designed to advance various nebulous Russian advantage in the world. (when honestly, ISIS is such a threat to Russia too, Putin isn't doing right by his own people)

Even if Russia wanted to lead the USA and Europe -- Russia actually can't. They've got the GDP of Italy. They simply do not have the military capability that the US does.

The world needs America to fix this thing, to lead everyone else on it and lead a coalition, but Obama just won't do it.

And worst of all -- he is not protecting our country.

That ISIS is A RATS NEST and DEN OF SNAKES and the US Army and Marines ought to be in there clearing them out -- house to house, cave to cave, liberating each and every town and city and wiping ISIS out.

It's gone on way too long now, Obama should pick a good general and then STAY OUT OF THE WAY and let the US military wipe ISIS out -- boots on the ground, US Marines, Army, the whole nine yards -- so that ISIS is wiped out and not a threat to us.

This stuff Obama is doing, it's not protecting us, wake up. He's at the G20, he's got other nations asking him to commit the US Army and lead a coalition to defeat ISIS but he just will not do it.
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 14:09:21

"President Obama and President Putin agreed on the need for a Syrian-led and Syrian-owned political transition, which would be proceeded by UN-mediated negotiations between the Syrian opposition and regime as well a ceasefire," a White House official said.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/16/obama-putin-go-head-to-head-on-g-20-sidelines.html
[/quote]

That was agreed to years ago after the Syrian civil war began in 2011. We've already had this agreement for years.

So what does this meeting in Turkey mean really?

Are Assad and Russia going to stop their offensive on the ground?

No.

Is Russia going to stop bombing the US backed forces in Syria?

No.

This is just another empty WH announcement about an empty O statement repeating things that were already agreed to five years ago. This doesn't change a thing.
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 14:23:28

Plantagenet wrote:So what does this meeting in Turkey mean really?


I guess it means it will all get worse, because Obama will not handle it and protect this country and our allies. He's just being total "Jimmy Carter" about it all, and it's ridiculous.

I guess it means we may all have to vote Republican in '16 so that we can get the old Republican foreign policy team in charge again and they'll be able to handle this whereas apparently Democrats can't.

A Republican president would listen to his secretary of defense, and advice from the pentagon, and listen to our allies and help them.

And we need to defend ourselves too, that's the big point, and Obama and John Kerry just aren't doing it.
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 14:34:37

Would you line up with boots & rifle 6? Would you send one of those sons you don't have? You are by far the most hawkish, warmongering poster we have here, about 10 times MBS.
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 14:45:29

SeaGypsy wrote:Would you line up with boots & rifle 6? Would you send one of those sons you don't have? You are by far the most hawkish, warmongering poster we have here, about 10 times MBS.


It's odd how you see defense as "warmongering."

What if this were on the local level and there was a horrible gang that had taken over part of the city and were terrorizing everyone.

Would you call it "warmongering" if someone was yelling to get the police out there and handle it, and restore order, and protect everyone?

Police have their job to do, it is THEIR JOB and profession that they chose. And many lose their life in the line of duty protecting us, and we should honor them.

And our soldiers have THEIR JOB as well. And we don't have a draft, it's all volunteer, and the US has the best soldiers and military leadership in the world and none of this is their fault -- the fault is that Obama will not listen to the Pentagon, he will not listen to his own secretaries of defense.

A country has to be defended.

(in the case of France, the ISIS crap got so bad that it BECAME A LOCAL ISSUE. They need to HANDLE IT AT THE ROOT, not tolerate it, not contain it, they need their army to go defeat it at the root of it. France can't do that on their own though, really it's only the US that has the capability. Nobody else can do it. They can help, we can lead a coalition, but France alone can't do it nor Europe alone nor even Russia.)

P.S. And I'll tell you something, as far as soldiers' sacrifices for us civilians, it's so that we can have a normal society and a homefront that's not under attack. That is THE JOB of a soldier, it's to defend us, and it's honorable and very necessary.

Cops, our military, they defend us so that everything we have in life is possible. So we can go out on a friday night in peace and don't get attacked, so that we can go to work or have a business and have everything we have. Criminals and terrorists threaten all of that, when it gets so bad it just can't be tolerated anymore, you need the US Marine Corps to go over there and handle it.

American Soldier- Toby Keith

I'm just trying to be a father,
Raise a daughter and a son,
Be a lover to their mother,
Everything to everyone.

Up and at 'em bright and early,
I'm all business in my suit,
Yeah, I'm dressed up for success from my head down to my boots,
I don't do it for the money, there's bills that I can't pay,
I don't do it for the glory, I just do it anyway,
Providing for our future's my responsibility,

Yeah I'm real good under pressure, being all that I can be,
I can't call in sick on Mondays when the weekend's been too strong,
I just work straight through the holidays,
Sometimes all night long.

You can bet that I stand ready when the wolf growls at the door.
Hey, I'm solid, hey, I'm steady, hey, I'm true down to the core.

And I will always do my duty, no matter what the price.
I've counted up the cost, I know the sacrifice.

Oh, and I don't want to die for you,
But if dying's asked of me,
I'll bear that cross with honor,
'Cause freedom don't come free.

I'm an American soldier, an American,
Beside my brothers and my sisters I will proudly take a stand,
When liberty's in jeopardy I will always do what's right,
I'm out here on the front lines. Sleep in peace tonight.
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Last edited by Sixstrings on Mon 16 Nov 2015, 15:58:56, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 15:00:10

SeaGypsy wrote:Would you line up with boots & rifle 6? Would you send one of those sons you don't have? You are by far the most hawkish, warmongering poster we have here, about 10 times MBS.

SeaGypsy wrote:Would you line up with boots & rifle 6? Would you send one of those sons you don't have? You are by far the most hawkish, warmongering poster we have here, about 10 times MBS.


Theorem A

We all would be still slaves on the fields if brave men and women had not fought wars for your / our democracy = freedom.

So my answer is clear i would fight side by side with my sons for my sons future as free men.

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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 16:28:25

M_B_S wrote:So my answer is clear i would fight side by side with my sons for my sons future as free men.


If there's ever been a cause for war, then I don't know what that would be if not this sh*t that's been going on with that caliphate.

Enough is enough.

It's not even about a particular country or nationalism or just democracy -- these ISIS are so bad, they are an affront to humanity itself, just basic civilization and decency.

But moreover, from a US perspective, they're an outright threat to us.

This is not even like "warmonger" things like south china sea and geopolitical back and forths with Russia, that stuff is all open for debate and people can differ on how strong we should be vs. other strategies etc., but when a place is under attack then that's just a whole other story. That's just defense at that point.

We're all against ISIS, the question at hand is how to defeat them.

Or even whether to defeat them (what exactly is the Obama policy?), or if it can be tolerated, if there's just an acceptable amount of crap the civilized world can put up with, and if so then where exactly is the line where you say "enough is enough."

If you guys think more of John Kerry and Obama stuff is the way to defend this country and stop this ISIS crap, then whatever, but I just do not agree with you.

We need a Ben Hodges or someone, put in charge of this thing.

More guys like Ben Hodges and old General Patraeus and a thousand other good commanders we have, and LESS John Kerry.

(seriously, it's OUTRAGEOUS -- I have NEVER, in my lifetime, seen a US president not protect this country.

It just pisses me off, I can just see what's going on here with the whole thing just like someone like Lindsay Graham does, and it's just outrageous.

There's this frickin' "caliphate" over there that's attacking everyone, threatening us, and Obama JUST WILL NOT send in US forces to frickin' wipe them out, wtf.)
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 17:06:52

GASMON wrote:Six, what you need is John Wayne, All American hero.


Or President John McCain, I can 100% guarantee you none of this would have happened if John McCain were in charge.

I know Republicans like I know the back of my hand, and they simply do not permit this crap to go on like with this ISIS.

This is how our big cities are too -- if crime gets too high in New York, THEN YOU GOTTA THROW THE LIBERAL mayor OUT of there and get yourself a Giulani or Bloomberg and he'll get the crime down.

It just drives me half batty, I agree with liberals on some things YET THEY CANNOT HANDLE national security. They can't lead an army. They can't protect us, when push gets to shove -- they're too busy thinking about refugee resettlement and croissants and endless meetings in Brussels, instead of how to win a war.

Putin's not handling it either, he's probably gaining weight because he's eating croissants all the time in these endless diplomatic meetings. Blah blah blah, all that ever happens is John Kerry and Lavrov talking about "making progress toward a framework for deconfliction."

Meanwhile, Europe's OVERRUN with refugees and terrorists are sneaking in as refugees and then Obama has just set up refugee intake centers in FRICKIN LEBANON, AND IRAQ!

What we're observing here with how this is all handled, is just liberal / socialist way of doing things. When it's getting someone some maternity leave and a higher wage then it's great, but when it comes to defending the country they aren't so good with that.

Besides "John McCain" or a "John Wayne" -- I'll tell you what other kind of leader we need, how about someone like iron lady Thatcher?

Image
Now see, look at THAT -- that's someone that understood command and leadership and wasn't squishy. A liberal would never say something like that, because they don't get it.

Old Thatcher wouldn't be so weak and squishy if she were still around and in charge, Thatcher wouldn't have let terrorists run amok, and Ronald Reagan wouldn't have either.

The problem is liberalism and socialism and they just cannot be tough.

They let crime go unabated in the cities, and talk about "root causes" instead.

On the world stage, they let this caliphate stand and continue to attack the world, it's ridiculous.

I'm sorry to get so political, like left vs. right, but in the US anyway we just do not have any Democrats like LBJ or Kennedy or FDR -- ever since Jimmy Carter, there just are no tough Democrats anymore. They don't exist. We had Jim Webb in the D primary but he got ran out of there pretty fast, they all told him he sounds like a Republican.

But I'll tell ya something, if you could put Jim Webb in the oval office right now then he'd handle this whole thing and it wouldn't be a problem. He's tough. He's a vet. He's not squishy.

But politics aside -- MY MAIN POINT IS THAT IT'S RIDICULOUS the world is being TERRORIZED by this little frickin' caliphate. They've got like 40,000 fighters. The civilized world should rally its professional military forces and WIPE THEM OUT.

P.S. -- Just to note -- John Wayne was a Republican.
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 17:27:10

Clueless 6. What had Assad done to warrant a 'defensive destruction' from the USA? I'm driving now, too busy to post pics, but if you search for 10 seconds you will find pictures of McCain hanging out with Al-Baghdadi & IS leaders in 2012. IS is your country's project.

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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 17:50:26

Anyway, just to be positive about things, it is true that Obama and Putin had a good talk.

Maybe the G20 nations will do just a bit more, and that bit more will be enough.

edit: I'm changing the channel to foxnews. They're very harshly criticizing Obama at the G20, I agree with what they're saying.

Fox is reporting that there are some Democrats speaking up trying to change Obama's direction, like Feinstein and Gillabrand saying we need to be doing more and have to change direction to do more.

Diane Feinstein says Obama needs to change his policy, he's not doing enough:

Feinstein: “Clear” that Obama’s ISIS strategy is “insufficient”

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, joined Republicans in saying the U.S. needed to do more.

“It has become clear that limited air strikes and support for Iraqi forces and the Syrian opposition are not sufficient to protect our country and our allies,”
she said in a statement. …

McCain and Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.), who is a Republican presidential candidate, said the U.S. and Arab allies should form a ground force to defeat the terrorist group.

“They have large armies. Let’s use their armies in a smart way and integrate our forces within a regional army and get the French involved, any NATO nation that would like to help,” said Graham, who appeared with McCain.

“They’re not the JV team, but not they’re certainly not 10 feet tall. The worst possible solution is half-measures. If we just drop a few bombs on these guys and that’s it, they’ll be stronger than ever,” said Graham, a member of the Armed Services Committee and retired Air Force colonel.

The Daily Beast noted Feinstein’s remarks yesterday as a signal that Obama’s party has begun to distance itself from the stench of failure, and may be ready to entertain a more muscular approach.
http://hotair.com/archives/2015/11/16/feinstein-clear-that-obamas-isis-strategy-is-insufficient/


So there you go, THE TOP Democrat on the intel committee -- the top person in the senate on these matters, in the Democratic Party -- even she says:

“It has become clear that limited air strikes and support for Iraqi forces and the Syrian opposition are not sufficient to protect our country and our allies,” she said in a statement.
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby AgentR11 » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 18:30:33

Sixstrings wrote:I won't rant about it, but a general concern is just that one has to be suspect of Russia when they suddenly start talking and have all these great ideas and want to be so helpful. One has to wonder what that's about, a lot of times throughout this Syria crisis Russia has come in at the last minute really to just gum up the works and derail everything, just as the West is getting unified and about ready to solve something.


Err, yes you will rant about it, you always do.

And one doesn't have to wonder what its about. Assad's "stronghold" as it were, is in the Latakia / Tartus corridor. Russian bombing activity has annihilated the logistical support of FSA/Nursa/ISIS. It is no longer possible for the groups we supported to overthrow Assad. Its fully beyond their capabilities; and frankly, if they don't find a way to make nice, or flee; they'll be ground down to the last man standing in Alleppo.

Putin is basically shaping the battlefield in a way that causes his solution to be the only viable solution. Frankly, as long as he's picking up the check, I say we order some bbq.
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 18:53:44

AgentR11 wrote:Putin is basically shaping the battlefield in a way that causes his solution to be the only viable solution. Frankly, as long as he's picking up the check, I say we order some bbq.


Actually the US is picking up a check too.

We're spending large amounts of money arming and training the very Syrian rebels that Putin is grinding into the dust with his bombing campaign. We spent half a billion dollars just on the 6-man Free Syrian Army that dissolved a few months back. We're backing the Saudis as they provide hundreds of US-made TOW missiles into the hands of the Syrians, and O just put a small number of boots on the ground in Syria to train the western back Syrian rebels.

Enjoy your BBQ!
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 19:02:44

AgentR11 wrote:Putin is basically shaping the battlefield in a way that causes his solution to be the only viable solution. Frankly, as long as he's picking up the check, I say we order some bbq.


Or, maybe vote Marco Rubio?

Marco Rubio: U.S. Must Lead Coalition to 'Humiliate' ISIS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76bNmfb0qlA


I think I may be comfortable with Rubio in charge and in the WH, if he had the old Bush foreign policy team.

Not neocon wars -- that was excess and they learned their lesson, but fact remains they can defend this country whereas I do not know if liberals and socialists can.

And I also know that libertarians can't, like Rand Paul and Ron Paul, and Donald Trump is a bit goofy too and seems like he reads "RT" and nobody quite knows where he gets his unusual views from.

In troubled times, Jeb Bush start's lookin good to me.. and Marco Rubio.

(if you listen to that Rubio clip, he's actually got some really good ideas about how to handle this thing.)

edit: you know, I can tell Rubio actually understands things pretty well. I never even listen to Rubio and he's saying the same things I do, like that Russia doesn't even "have the capability" to defeat ISIS, even if Russia wanted to lead in the ME and lead a coalition.

And then Rubio contends that's not Russia's interest anyway, Russia is gaming for other things.

Overall, Rubio's foreign policy views are very similar to my own, and I didn't get mine from Rubio so that does impress me when I hear the same things I think -- coming from a candidate.

I've been saying he's too young, but maybe he's not too young after all. Rubio is a really good establishment alternative to Jeb. Jeb understands all these things as well, but Rubio's got some energy and vitality that Bush seems to lack.

I don't know, Rubio's startin' to look good.. he understands things.. he knows how to lead.. he can give a good speech, too. There's things he believes in, very strongly. He'd be good on defense and national security, yet isn't crazy.

And importantly -- Rubio is a guy that is logical *but he has an emotional intelligence as well*.

Much of the world, and the threats we face, are grounded in emotion. And Rubio understands that, more than Jeb does and far more than our professor president. Listen to Rubio's ideas about things, it makes sense -- he'd want to have "humiliating defeats of ISIS" to "counter the narrative" that ISIS is so strong and undefeatable and then to therefore counter ISIS recruitment.

Now see, that's some very smart thinking right there. Makes sense.
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Re: Is the PUTINOBAMA PAKT coming after Paris?!

Unread postby dissident » Mon 16 Nov 2015, 19:27:55

http://sputniknews.com/politics/2015111 ... putin.html

ISIL Financed by 40 Countries, Including G20 Member States - Putin

"I provided examples related to our data on the financing of Islamic State units by natural persons in various countries. The financing comes from 40 countries, as we established, including some G20 members," Putin told reporters following the summit.

"I've demonstrated the pictures from space to our colleagues, which clearly show the true size of the illegal trade of oil and petroleum products market. Car convoys stretching for dozens of kilometers, going beyond the horizon when seen from a height of four-five thousand meters," Putin told reporters after the G20 summit.


MBS, your white knights are the ones with the "pakt" with ISIS.
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