[Cid_Yama]

A battalion of American troops are to train three battalions of Ukrainian troops from the Yavariv training camp in the western Ukrainian city of Lviv in March, US Army Europe Commander Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges said on Wednesday.

According to Hodges, the US troops will train the Ukrainians in fields such as how to better defend themselves against pro-Russian rockets and artillery. They will also receive training on how to secure roads, bridges and various other infrastructures.

He added they will also be taught how to treat and evacuate casualties and deal with situations where communications have been jammed.

Hodges made the remarks during a visit to NATO's Multinational Corps Northeast Headquarters in the city of Szczecin, Poland.

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The United States will deploy personnel by the end of this week to train the Ukrainian national guard, US 173rd Airborne Brigade Commander Colonel Michael Foster said at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, DC on Monday.

“What we’ve got laid out is six United States companies that will be training six Ukrainian companies throughout the summer.”

The current plan is for US forces to stay six months, he said, and noted there have been discussions about how to increase the duration and the scope of the training mission.

United Kingdom’s (UK) Prime Minister David Cameron announced last week that the UK will also be sending military advisors to Ukraine.

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Meanwhile, NATO forces prepared for a major exercise in the Baltics.

US military officials said that deployment of some 3,000 troops had begun for the three-month Operation Atlantic Resolve. The exercise will see NATO forces working alongside their allies in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania -- former Soviet republics that are now members of the Western alliance.

The United States also said Monday that it had delivered more than 100 pieces of heavy military equipment to the Baltic states. US Major General John R. O'Connor told AFP he oversaw the delivery of the equipment in the port of Riga.

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Russia’s Foreign Ministry on Thursday called the arrival of U.S. military trainers in western Ukraine a “provocation” and warned Ukrainians and their leaders that they should rethink the consequences of hosting the Western forces.

“U.S.-Ukrainian military drills in the western Ukrainian Lviv region threaten Russia’s security,” ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said in a statement carried by the official Tass news agency.

Lukashevich said the American forces who arrived Thursday for their seven-month mission intended to teach Ukrainian soldiers “how to use overseas military equipment.” He added that discussion continues in the United States about sending arms to the Ukrainian government as well as the instructors.

“It is evident that they are not trying to bring peace to the country,” Lukashevich said of Washington’s military aid to Ukraine, which Moscow officials and state-controlled media portray as an anti-Russian collaboration.

“Kiev authorities and all the Ukrainian people should think about the possible consequences of such steps,” Lukashevich warned.

Lukashevich also lashed out at NATO warships engaged in exercises in the Black Sea, which Russia regards as a strategic outlet to the Mediterranean that is within Moscow’s traditional sphere of influence.

“Talking about the ships that entered [the Black Sea], I would call it a very worrisome signal, a provocative idea which does not add up to stability and confidence that the peace process in Ukraine will be stepped up,” Lukashevich said. “Any military presence in the proximity of a regional conflict is always a very dangerous maneuver which can lead to different unpleasant consequences.”

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We already know how military missions of 'limited scope and duration' work out with the US military. There are now US boots on the ground in Ukraine.

I've noticed a spike in war-drum beating in the conservative press over the last couple of days in the UK, US and Australia. Not only are they flooding the internet with current stories, but are reposting stories from prior to the ceasefire, obscuring the situation over the last month.

I would not be surprised if some false flag operation takes place involving the deaths of US servicemen in Ukraine. Not saying it will happen, but this media spike is worrisome. Things had been fairly quiet over the last month.

[dissident]

If America is so badly itching for WWIII it will get it. The retards in charge of the US don't realize they will loose, completely and irrecoverably. Do Americans have a stomach for losing 2/3rds of their population? Your designated enemy will not collapse psychologically like you will.

[GHung]

"If America is so badly itching for WWIII it will get it." "It?" Funny that folks want to personify countries as if they are people. Convenient, but also a lie, especially applied to a stew-pot country like the US. I suggest you quit painting everything with such a broad brush and follow the money. Politics is the tool of wealthier concerns that aren't limited by international borders.

[AgentR11]

I really don't get it either. There is no victor in WW III; just casualties. Its just incomprehensible. Its like the the official representatives of the West believe that Russia will never launch nuclear weapons, "cause reasons". Its like Nuland really believes that Russia will just grin and bear with anything we do to them, no matter what.

[Cid_Yama]

About 750 US army tanks and other pieces of military equipment arrived in Latvia on Monday. A Pentagon spokesman said the equipment was part of a regular armoured brigade combat team set, and included two battalions of tanks, two battalions of fighting vehicles, artillery and helicopters.

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The Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe was an agreement signed in 1990 between the 16 North Atlantic Treaty Organization countries and six Warsaw Pact countries. It set caps on the number of soldiers, tanks, artillery pieces and other non-nuclear military assets that could be stationed in Europe.

“For years, the Russian side has been doing its best to maintain viability of the regime of control over conventional arms, it initiated talks on adapting the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe, it ratified the agreement on Adapted CFE Treaty,” Mazur said, according to the Kremlin-owned news service ITAR-TASS. “Regrettably, NATO countries have preferred to dodge CFE provisions by means of the alliance’s expansion and use any pretexts to prevent the Agreement on Adapted CFE Treaty from coming into effect.

Russia had continued to participate in “consultative” meetings with the signatories. However, Mazur said the Kremlin now sees further participation as “pointless from both political and practical points of view and as excessively costly from the financial and economic point of view.”

Mazur added, “This step does not mean that Russia rejects further dialogue on control over conventional arms in Europe if and when our partners are ripe for that. We are still ready for joint work on a new regime of control over conventional arms in Europe, which is in the interests of both Russia and other European states.”

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Well that's it. The death of my life's work. Because the Western nations refused to ratify the amended treaty, and continued to gobble up former Warsaw Pact nations, the balance of power established in the original treaty was undermined, shifting the balance ever more in favor of the West.

Because the Baltic States were part of Russia at the time of the original treaty, they had no limits on conventional arms set. And because the amended treaty which would have rebalanced forces and set limits was never ratified, the West took advantage, and has been cramming conventional forces into the Baltics on Russia's border.

The West is now trying to make Russia the bad guy, for recognizing the Treaty had become a farce, and telling the West to fuck itself.

We just moved several steps closer to WWIII and war in Europe. I hope the European nations that refused to ratify the amended treaty are happy with themselves. I guess they don't remember what it was like back when WWIII with it's biological, chemical and nuclear weapons could happen on their own soil at any moment.

The West, of course, will take this as meaning that they can now just pack the whole continent with conventional forces again.

By Dawn's Early Light

[dissident]

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/w ... ssia/1620/



And the western media chorus will have you believe that some colour revolution has a chance in Russia. They will tell you fringe nobodies like Nemtsov would have had a chance at being president. Of course, the media will tell you that Russians are brainwashed by "state run media". The western media can lie 24/7 because you have to read alternative sources to get any actual context and information.

[Keith_McClary]

He added they will also be taught how to treat and evacuate casualties and deal with situations where communications have been jammed.

They were using cell phones.

[Sixstrings]

There are now US boots on the ground in Ukraine.

There will also be British and Canadian trainers.

But it's not fair to overstate elements of the 173rd doing some training. Army's been doing Rapid Trident every year for like 15 or 20 years now, with Ukraine, and these are longstanding and ongoing ties and this is nothing new.

In Russian media, the state is making it out to be some big huge thing, but it does not compare to 12,000 troops in the east and 29,000 in Crimea, not just training but active combat and decisive combat. The airport battle. Then that one town I can't even begin to spell.

In comparrison, these are just 300 American trainers, that's all, and it's really nothing new and 173rd has been in Ukraine many times over many years with training and exercises.

It is entirely up to Russia however much this escalates, or does not escalate. And that is the truth. It's in Putin's hands.

[Sixstrings]

If America is so badly itching for WWIII it will get it. The retards in charge of the US don't realize they will loose, completely and irrecoverably. Do Americans have a stomach for losing 2/3rds of their population? Your designated enemy will not collapse psychologically like you will.

You're talking madness, please tell me this is not what's on Russian tv all the time.

I know my president won't ever push the button. And neither will the next one in '17, nobody is ever gonna frickin' "invade" (jesus, give me a break) "Russia."

Nobody ain't ever gonna invade Russia, how many times must I state what should be clearly obvious.

Nobody will ever invade Russia. Just as Russians aren't ever going to land any troops in the USA. It's ludicrous. So just stop the nuke war talk. If we've got to have a proxy war, if it comes to that, then that's a proxy war like Vietnam or Korea and that's not the same thing as nuclear WWIII.

And I'll say another thing, Russians aren't any crazier now than in the 1950s and 1960s, so no I don't believe Putin is gonna push any buttons. I'm sorry, I do not believe it, even if maybe he wants people to think he might then I still don't believe it. If Kruschev didn't end Russia for all time, over stupid Cuba, then Putin won't end Russia over darn Ukraine.

Let's have some common sense here.

Russia has been creating self-fulfilling prophecies, and creating enemies that were not there. Russia is looking for fights in places that are Not Russia -- that ain't the same as what Is Russia.

Here's a map of Russia, yes Russia can defend this map with nukes:



See, that's Russia.

But everything outside of that is Not Russia and maybe it's open to contest, and maybe there will have to be proxy wars and a struggle over who aligns where but that is not the same as "Russia invaded."

[davep]

Germany and France don't quite see eye to eye with the US/UK bellicose warmongering. Russia protected its military interests with Crimea and stopped a slaughter of its people in Eastern Ukraine, but this is being used by neocons to ratchet up their rhetoric. They're scary people.

[Strummer]

Nobody ain't ever gonna invade Russia

Of course not. But overthrowing the government and either installing your puppets or alternatively plunging the country into chaos works just as well. That's what Russia is expecting, and their fear is fully justified.

[AgentR11]

It is entirely up to Russia however much this escalates, or does not escalate. And that is the truth. It's in Putin's hands.

Yes it is. Might want to give a second thought to things that might put Putin in a position where he has no reason to not launch Russia's nuclear arsenal; because his military is VERY willing to launch with or without rational reason.

Again you prove that you are perfectly happy to see the world engulfed in nuclear fire, just so long as it is not the "fault" of the US.

[Tanada]

Germany and France don't quite see eye to eye with the US/UK bellicose warmongering. Russia protected its military interests with Crimea and stopped a slaughter of its people in Eastern Ukraine, but this is being used by neocons to ratchet up their rhetoric. They're scary people.

It is not just the neocons, it seems like brinksmanship is the new policy of the State Department as a whole, not just a few isolated blowhards as is usually the case. My life is far from perfect, but World War III would make it much less perfect than it is today. Unfortunately the people in charge of my country appear to believe Putin will back down and let the EU/USA dictate policy to Russia.

I went to a fascinating military museum in northern Michigan a decade ago where the theme was never forget the Michigan and Wisconsin soldiers from World War I that were deployed to northern Russia in 1918-1919 in an attempt to support the 'White Russian' forces and overthrow the 'Red' and 'Black' Russian forces in their three sided civil war after the Czar/Tsar was executed. Up until that time Russia had always had cordial relations with the USA, the Tsar/Czar had supported the Union in the Civil War and sold Alaska to the USA shortly afterwards. After the USA tried to intervene in the Russian three sided civil war in 1918-1919 and the 'Red Russian' side ended up victorious there was always a suspicion that the USA wanted to overthrow Russia just like Napoleon and Hitler had down in the 1800-1815 period and 1941-1945 period.

Russia has a long memory, this history has been taught to every Russian school child for the last hundred years and Putin certainly learned it from his very early youth. He had zero reasons to trust the USA growing up and or behavior over the period from 1989-2015 has done nothing to build trust between our countries. All of the people in Russia learned the same historical lessons he did, which is why they are willing to suffer a little now in hopes of not suffering more later on by proving their resolve. Russians are sociologically a stoic people, their language even uses a single word to sum up and entire sentence in English "It can not be helped, it does not matter" Nichevo, there is nothing that can be done about it so don't worry about it and move on to other concerns. Americans on the other hand are about as far from Stoic as you can imagine, we scream and pout and make a lot of noise over every little thing so if we feel threatened we lash out like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum. Russians take the longer view, while Americans can not see the forest for the tree right in front of them. We need to look at the world through a rational filter, not an emotional filter as we have been doing. We won't admit anything bad like Peak Oil or unstable Climate exist because to do so requires a long term view of how the world works. Sadly we also will not admit that we are not the rulers of Russia and our word (demands) are not law to them, they will do as we wish when it suite their purposes, not ours.

[careinke]

It is entirely up to Russia however much this escalates, or does not escalate. And that is the truth. It's in Putin's hands.

Again you prove that you are perfectly happy to see the world engulfed in nuclear fire, just so long as it is not the "fault" of the US.

Then we could be "Dead right."

[Sixstrings]

Yes it is. Might want to give a second thought to things that might put Putin in a position where he has no reason to not launch Russia's nuclear arsenal; because his military is VERY willing to launch with or without rational reason.

What the heck are you talking about.

Putin's started a proxy war with the West, in Ukraine.

So far it has all been Russian troops. Per Ben Hodges, about 12,000 Russian Army has been fighting in the east, and there are 29,000 stationed in Crimea.

I remember we all had these discussions almost a year ago at the early stages of this thing when Russia started putting occupation forces into Crimea. At that time, we already had all these debates in these threads (was before you joined the discussion), and I said back then that if Russia ever moved their army into the east then it would be justified for Western forces to move into west Ukraine.

Nobody said back then that was unreasonable, on this forum.

Okay so, Russia did wind up moving its army into east Ukraine. So that's history now.

If they've got their army in there, why can't we have ours in there.

We're talking about a Korea here, folks; containing armed expansion by the other side. The valid debate point, from an American perspective, is the same now as it was in 1950. It's just a matter of WHERE do you stand up, and WHEN. It's a matter of where the final red line is, that's all.

And in the interest of peace with Russia then sure, that is a valid debate to have. For example, if Russia started doing a bunch of ethnic stoking in Estonia then that would be way over the line and then the correct chess move would be to go all out in arming and supporting Ukraine. This is geopolitical chess, going on, and competing ideologies and ideas and competing leadership in the world.

If you guys just want to say that we'll tolerate whatever they do in Ukraine and we'll be very careful what we do back in Ukraine, and then we finally have to stand up if they do a lot more in places other than Ukraine, then okay. That's like WWII. Rhineland, Sudetenland, Austria, and finally Poland was war.

I don't know what your position is Agent, and others, just say what it is.

Should the West just do nothing at all, and wait until Russia has done so much stuff in so many places that there's no doubt anymore and there's 100% consensus we must stand up?

Just tell me where your red line is, Agent. You said before it was Estonia. Well didn't you just post something from "Russia Insider" that sounds like maybe the beginnings of separatist-stoking narrative? Just tell me where your final red line is man, and then tell me how your judgement of the odds that Putin will go to that final red line. And then tell me why it's smart to just let a Hitler take more things after he already took Rhineland and Sudetenland and Austria. Why let the problem get worse, why let Putin get more emboldened, explain that to me Agent.

My view: Putin's not stupid, and actually will not overplay his hand if we really do stand up a bit. We are the ones that want compromise, he just needs to see there's no more advantage to be taken and that it's time for him to compromise.

All we need to do is stand up to him a bit, General Breedlove and our chariman of the joint chiefs Dempsey is right about it, all we're talking about is implementing the M part of the DIME strategy -- military. We're just talking about maybe starting to match what Putin has been doing, that's all. It'll work out. If we move forces there and they flip out and get all upset, well HEY WE JUST GOT A BARGAINING CHIP, right? Maybe that would get their attention, right? Maybe they'd make a real deal then, right?

Again you prove that you are perfectly happy to see the world engulfed in nuclear fire, just so long as it is not the "fault" of the US.

It's risk we have to live with.

North Korea has nukes too. And they're developing ICBMs that could reach the US. And Iran wants the same thing, and Obama is helping them get them (lol).

It's a risk we already live with, Agent. All we can do is manage it the best we can -- but giving in to nuclear first strike threats will never be an option.

If North Korea or Iran or China ever annex too many places or do too much sh*t in the world and think their nukes protect them, then we may have to go to the brink with them as well. Don't you remember the cold war. Laying down in fear of first strike is not an option because then the other side can take over the whole world without firing a shot anyway.

Cold war is a game of poker, Agent, and you keep folding at the bluff.

My life is far from perfect, but World War III would make it much less perfect than it is today. Unfortunately the people in charge of my country appear to believe Putin will back down and let the EU/USA dictate policy to Russia.

Well, I agree with you, nuclear war would be a cramp in all our style and ruin our day, for sure.

We may be in cold war. Remember back how that was before. You're probably not much older than me, and only remember the more stable latter half.

Cold war is a game of chicken, and obviously scary if it's someone that's not even as warm and cuddly as Gorbachev and Kruschev. We wanted Russia to be a friend. They were a friend. They haven't fully crossed the line, yet.

Our side never does any nuclear first strike threats, only rogue belligerent horrible regimes do that.

On the Russia side -- Kruschev was the last to bang his shoe and shout "we will bury you!"

Really, North Korea is the only one in the world that does that now. And to be fair to Putin, he has not crossed that line yet, actually. I'm sure he knows he can't, obviously, that would be taking the mask off and going full-on crazy tyrannical and crossing the Rubicon, and casting Russia into pariah rogue state forever like North Korea. He wouldn't do that. I think maybe they WISH they could just make us think they're like North Koreans, but they don't really want to be.

With all due respect Tanada, you are very right to be cautious about Ukraine but you must also say where your ultimate red line is. I never hear you say where that would be. Whatever your view is, I would respect it, I'm just looking for clarity is all. This whole thing is a chess game -- if your view is sit back and let the other side do 20 moves, then tell me when we start playing the game, where is that red line.

Ultimately -- what we all really want is to just make Russia FEEL like it's won a victory and they can feel like they got something over on us and we can just have peace. This whole darn thing is about Russian national pride. Really we should be making an epic argument about Crimea, and then give in on that at the last minute and that's the big compromise and then they feel like they got something.

Which really they did, that's a big deal, getting to annex anything in 2015. Crimea is the size of Belgium.

[Quinny]

Ben Hodges is full of shit. Your statements have been continually bunked but you seem to think if you keep repeating them they will suddenly come true. If we end up with war it will be because of people like you! Why don't you keep out of Europe and go and play your war games in your bedroom.

[AgentR11]

I already posted what is the right answer, and that is to lock the lines down tight as they are; Estonia is fodder, and deserves to be fodder. I posted the Estonian piece so that you'd understand that we are not defending Truth, Justice, and the American Way; but rather OUR interests, for OUR purposes, for OUR enrichment. We give Russia two options that they can choose between, one of which allows us all to remain alive hating each other till the end of time.

Russia can invade a NATO country, fight, die, launch the nukes and we all die horribly.

Or Russian can hold its current lines in Europe, we hold Russian territory absolutely sacrosanct, including Crimea. The frozen zones stay frozen until the end of time; UA slices off the Eastern half and becomes a viable European country with borders at the Dneiper, inclusive of Kharkov probably. Not sure how Odessa plays out. We arm the piddle out of Ukraine, Kiev fights and loses horribly till they decide they've had enough dieing. Russia gets the broken left over in the East of Ukraine. thus, no nuclear exchange; China gets to be the priority customer of Russia, we get to gouge the piddle out of the EU on LNG; everyone should be happily miserable for centuries, except China which should be happy with the energy, and US which should be happy with all the money we're going to make off the EU/NATO.

You are so obsessed with proving that the mess isn't our fault, that you dont' care if we all end up dead because you present the Russian side no option they can live with. That is what real Republicans know how to do; win, while insuring your adversary has a position to land in that they can tolerate; unless of course you intend to sack the capital and suffer whatever consequence follows from that. (with Russia, sacking Moscow = end of the world).

[Sixstrings]

Ben Hodges is full of shit. Your statements have been continually bunked but you seem to think if you keep repeating them they will suddenly come true. If we end up with war it will be because of people like you! Why don't you keep out of Europe and go and play your war games in your bedroom.

It's your own foreign secretary that is about 10 times more hard line than any American leadership is.

UK's Hammond says Russia could pose greatest threat to British security
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-IaCNs0nL4

Watch that video.

He's British. He's your foreign secretary.

He's using very grave tones, he sounds like Churchill. There is nobody in the US talking that seriously about Russia, as yet. So why are you yelling at me.

Bizarre, it'll actually wind up being Stephen Harper Canada or the UK that actually starts a war, but we'll still get the blame for it.

That British foreign secretary is a lot more Churchill about it than I am, I would actually want to know a lot more to be convinced, why is he sounding so grave and serious about it. Is it really that bad. Personally: I'm watching the Baltics. If they start sh*t up in Estonia, then you know it's real.

[Quinny]

You just don't get it and never will. I'm pretty much a libertarian Socialist , but sometimes I start to think people should have to pass a test before they are allowed on Internet forums!

[Cid_Yama]

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