[dissident]

The Guardian is engaged in brazen lying about the events in Ukraine:





It's not just The Guardian, much of the western media is parroting the Kiev regime lies. In particular the ludicrous claims that only the separatists are attacking their own civilians. As if the civilians are too retarded to tell which direction the artillery and MLRS barrages are coming. You know, there is something called the Doppler effect and both artillery shells and MLRS rockets make quite a bit of audible noise when they cut through the air.

[dissident]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... HWHqj8g7Bk

The above is a video clip of Poroshenko ranting about the Donbas. He boasts that while Ukrainian children (since I guess the Donbas is no longer or was never Ukrainian) will go to school, the Donbas children will sit in basements. That is a clear reference to shelling by his own forces.

The Guardian sugar coats this butchery to make it look like some humanitarian operation. The same Guardian was tripping over itself supporting the Kosovo secessionists.

[Withnail]

The fake self taught 'weapons expert' the Guardian built up, Eliot Higgins/Brown Moses, is quite a piece of work.

The Guardian heavily censors comments critical of the crap he produces.

Even so, most comments under that article about his so-called 'study' were negative.

[dissident]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... fORwnVaWgc

Damage from shelling by Kiev regime forces to one of the neighbourhoods of Donetsk City from Feb 21, 2015. The so-called ceasefire in action. In petty fits of rage the regime is shelling multiple civilian targets (Donetsk, Spartak, Vesoloye and Elenovka) in the wake of the Debaltsevo cauldron collapse.

No coverage of this in The Guardian. Laundering butchers is the mission of The Guardian.

[Sixstrings]

I guess you guys only like the Guardian when they're promoting Snowden stuff.

UK has the 5th largest military in the world, and it's willing to use it to protect allies, like starting to send some aid to Ukraine and doing typhoon patrols in the Baltics.

Brits are bulwark defenders of the West same as we are, when push comes to shove. Russia side isn't going to win any information war battles by poking at Brits and antagonizing them -- I don't know who you are trying to convince, other than yourselves, but it's definitely not convincing all of Russia's neighbors that are allying with each other, over concern at Russian aggression.

I don't know where this thing is headed, I just hope the Russian government understands that it actually cannot win a war against the whole world and even their "ally" China isn't on board with them, at most China will "abstain."

Russian tensions could escalate into all-out war, says Nato general

General Sir Adrian Bradshaw, Nato's deputy supreme allied commander in Europe, says Vladimir Putin could try to invade and seize Nato territory



He said Russia had shown last year it could generate large conventional forces at short notice for snap exercises along its borders. There was a danger these could be used “not only for intimidation and coercion but potentially to seize Nato territory, after which the threat of escalation might be used to prevent re-establishment of territorial integrity. This use of so called escalation dominance was of course a classic Soviet technique.”

He went on to say that “the threat from Russia, together with the risk it brings of a miscalculation resulting in a strategic conflict, however unlikely we see it as being right now, represents an existential threat to our whole being.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11425393/Russian-tensions-could-escalate-into-all-out-war-says-Gen-Adrian-Bradshaw.html

British defence secretary Michael Fallon describes Rusia as "a real and present danger:"

NATO General Warns Over Russia and Baltic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HETRg1bAKUk

Sir Adrian is warning about the Soviet tactic of "escalation dominance" to potentially seize NATO territory, and their hybrid war tactics:

The latest security challenges facing NATO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4qeyVKpTcI

[eastbay]

Nearly all the US and EU media is busily pushing hard for more wars. The so-called liberal media is no different, promoting conflicts with similar enthusiasm. This is no surprise at all.

[Sixstrings]

What we're finding out in the Obama years is that even when you don't push for wars, then the wars just push on you anyway.

[Withnail]

UK has the 5th largest military in the world, and it's willing to use it to protect allies, like starting to send some aid to Ukraine and doing typhoon patrols in the Baltics.

Brits are bulwark defenders of the West same as we are, when push comes to shove. Russia side isn't going to win any information war battles by poking at Brits and antagonizing them -- I don't know who you are trying to convince, other than yourselves, but it's definitely not convincing all of Russia's neighbors that are allying with each other, over concern at Russian aggression.

Don't presume to patronise a British person with your nauseating bilge.

Your US puppets in the British government and miltary don't speak for the ordinary British person, as we found out when months of propaganda failed to build any enthusiam for bombing Syria.


And I seriously doubt Britian has the world's 5th largest military.

Right now we have a carrier with no planes and some submarines that don't work.

That's pretty much the Royal Navy.

[Strummer]

I guess you guys only like the Guardian when they're promoting Snowden stuff.

No, we liked the Guardian when it started publishing Snowden. Read Glenn Greenwald's book "No Place To Hide" for a full account of how the Guardian changed since then. It's a completely different newspaper now to what it was two years ago.

[Sixstrings]

Your US puppets in the British government and miltary don't speak for the ordinary British person, as we found out when months of propaganda failed to build any enthusiam for bombing Syria.

Withnail -- we are the same. We both have liberals, and conservatives. Action to do something on Syria failed over here, too. Conservatives turned out right -- British conservatives, and American conservatives.

And by the way, don't get mad at me for things a British general says. He sounds like he knows what he's talking about to me. He mentioned the old Soviet tactic of "escalation domination" and warning about hybrid war in the baltics.

I don't want to see WWIII so okay, keep the powder dry, and just watch for the first signs of hybrid war in the Baltics or someplace next. And send aid to Ukraine, in response to further landgrab by Putin there.

United Kingdom PwrIndx: 0.2743
http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp

I'm not sure how the "power index" is weighted, for example Turkey is #10 but actually has a very large personnel force at 410,000. I imagine numbers, and capabilities, are different things of course. Quality versus quantity.

UK's new carrier is VERY GOOD. It actually did a better job achieving more automation than the new US super carrier. Go with your strengths. Build another two of those. If the typhoon is good, build some more of those too, and have more than just two airbases. I'd say you'd need 4 air bases in the UK to get good coverage.

As for ground forces -- I would think smaller can be better, versus a hundred thousand guys that couldn't be mobilized for anything in time to do anything. UK needs a rapid action force of its own. UK and Europe need to learn from Russia and adapt -- "lean, mean, fighting machines" and forces that can move rapidly.

edit: from what I've read, that British carrier is very good so they should at least have two of those. Other than that though, the Brits don't really need a large navy anymore.

Just get another one of those carriers, and then it looks like the navy needs aegis destroyers -- you can't just sail unescorted carriers around. You need a battle group.

So more aegis destroyers, a lot of them.

Maybe a few more subs.

UK needs 2 more airbases for typhoons and to look its airspace defense.

And, more importantly than naval power, for emerging threats in Europe and against the British homeland -- the UK needs to work on some land force capability. There's an artillery and tank war going on in Europe. So -- UK needs countermeasures, to that.

[Withnail]

Your US puppets in the British government and miltary don't speak for the ordinary British person, as we found out when months of propaganda failed to build any enthusiam for bombing Syria.

Withnail -- we are the same. We both have liberals, and conservatives. Action to do something on Syria failed over here, too. Conservatives turned out right -- British conservatives, and American conservatives.

You know nothing about this country. Only the other day you were raving about there being Muslim no go zones.

There's no such thing as American style liberal/conservative here.

The likes of Ann Coulter would be arrested for hate speech.

You know nothing about anything other than the brain numbing pap you are fed by the likes of Fox News, while drool comes out of the corner of your mouth as your hand reaches for another mouthful of Cheez Doodlez.

[AgentR11]

I just hope the Russian government understands that it actually cannot win a war against the whole world and even their "ally" China isn't on board with them, at most China will "abstain."

1. Russia does not intend to win a war against the whole world. It intends to maintain its access to the Pacific, Arctic, Baltic, and Black Sea. It will do what is necessary to succeed on those points. On the other hand, Putin isn't even willing to drive to Kiev, nor even shell it; which he could do *now*, and there wouldn't be anything, anyone could do to stop him. There is no getting around the fact that Kiev is less than 200miles from the Russian border.

2. China will abstain because they don't give two cents worth of care for what Russia does on its Western Border. Russia doesn't want, nor need a cheerleader in Beijing. They just want a reliable business partner. And if Beijing is anything, its a reliable, cautious business partner.

You must understand hybrid war if you are going to face off against Russia now. Its all about *cost*; just plain ole dollars/etc. Russia doesn't drive to Kiev and shell it, because that puts them in the high cost box, and Ukraine in the low cost box. Fail. Instead, Russia will just keep pumping in obsolete equipment, from storage into Donbass. Recent twitting noted presence of Tyulpan mortar system in Dontesk; its a massive piece of artillery, Russia keeps a dozen or less in service, for entertainment I think, and has 100-200 of them in storage, destined eventually for scrap or sale at a loss. Lord Emperor Putin: "Hey, can't we drive some of these over to Dontesk, I need that warehouse for stuff that actually sells." General Bob: "Sure Boss, can we dump some of the half a bajillion shells we have for it too?" Lord Emperor Putin: "Sounds like a plan. I need space for cookies that I intend to sell to Ukraine after they realize they needed fuel and stuff to plant their grain crop this year. Silly hipsters with their ipads, thinking wheat grows via App."

He said Russia had shown last year it could generate large conventional forces at short notice for snap exercises along its borders. There was a danger these could be used “not only for intimidation and coercion but potentially to seize Nato territory, after which the threat of escalation might be used to prevent re-establishment of territorial integrity. This use of so called escalation dominance was of course a classic Soviet technique.

This is exactly how hybrid war works. Putin can sortee troops /air to his border without warning; simply as part of their normal, operational training budget, nice, efficient, paid for, useful. We have to react quickly, at any moment's notice to that sortee that we don't know about ahead of time. That puts Russia in the low cost box, and us in the (very) high cost box.

In the failed Soviet strategy, we'd build a carrier, they'd build a carrier; we'd be in the same cost box; but USSR would have no use for the result, and a much smaller economic pool to try and pay for it with; we did this to them over, and over, and over; and they fell for it, over, and over, and over; until they imploded.

Putin won't fall for it. He watched the game play out, up close, with access to the real numbers.

We, US/NATO absolutely must design a system that allows us to respond to Russian feints with enough presence to calm our skittish Baltic friends; while not ending up spending a billion every time Russia spends a few thousand. This is a very, very hard trick to accomplish, and I think Putin knows it; and he'll rattle those Baltic friends, over, and over, and over until they are in such a ridiculous frenzy that they'll never be satisfied.

Focus on what counts. Do not match a low cost maneuver with a high cost one. Russia is *NOT* a hundred times smaller than us economically. If they can force a 100:1 cost response over time; we're dead meat.

[dissident]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... mQ4Ikxp44w

Civilians picking for food in Debaltsevo. I have question for the western media: why are the civilians in this town scrounging for food? Did they not have access to food when the town was controlled by the regime? It has not been that long since the kessel formed.

It is rather obvious that the civilians were not being properly supplied when they were under regime control. Why would the ethnic Russian hating regime feed Russians? This should be the starting point for the analysis of the roots of the conflict and not yet another bout of Putin derangement syndrome paranoia.

[Sixstrings]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9mQ4Ikxp44w

What I notice from your linked video are cossacks stomping the Ukraining flag into the ground and saying "you go and tell the world it was the Cosscaks that took Debaltseve."

[americandream]

six has a habit of trying to co-opt one into his blinkered world view by appealing to primitive tribal loyalties. Logic is a stranger in this fellows cranial cavity.

[Withnail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9mQ4Ikxp44w

What I notice from your linked video are cossacks stomping the Ukraining flag into the ground and saying "you go and tell the world it was the Cosscaks that took Debaltseve."

You're aware both Russia and Ukraine have Cossacks, right?

Do you even know what Cossacks are? Do you think they're a unit in the Russian army?

[Sixstrings]

Do you even know what Cossacks are? Do you think they're a unit in the Russian army?

Well.. in the video one of them says "I'm from Moscow." Moscow is not in Ukraine.

[Withnail]

Do you even know what Cossacks are? Do you think they're a unit in the Russian army?

Well.. in the video one of them says "I'm from Moscow." Moscow is not in Ukraine.

It's no secret there are volunteers from Russia fighting in east Ukraine. Do keep up.

Cossacks don't recognise the east Ukrainian border anyway. It goes right through Cossack lands.