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Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

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Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Tue 17 Feb 2015, 21:28:13

Thousands of Kiev forces dead or taken prisoner.
"Eighty percent of Debaltseve is already ours," said Eduard Basurin, leader of the DPR forces. "A clean-up of the town is under way."

He later said negotiations were under way for remaining Kiev troops to surrender.

"Hundreds" had been captured and would eventually be released to their families. Kiev denied that the number of captives was that high.

Kiev forces had been ordered by their leadership not to surrender.

"I hope that the responsible figures in the Ukrainian leadership will not hinder soldiers in the Ukrainian army from putting down their weapons," Putin said.

"If they aren’t capable of taking that decision themselves and giving that order, then (I hope) that they won’t prosecute people who want to save their lives and the lives of others.”


The situation in Debaltseve has led Ukrainians to draw likenesses to the summer siege of Ilovaysk, during which the Donbas battalion claimed 1,000 soldiers had died.

“We have had Ilovaysk. Now we have Debaltseve,” Aleksander Chelobitchenko, a senior lieutenant on the Ukrainian side of the Joint Control Commission, a combined Ukrainian-Russian observation team based in Soledar, said Tuesday. “If you keep cutting the branches off a tree, eventually the tree will die. This is very bad, to lose all this.”

“It’s not just the people. It’s also the equipment and the weapons there,” he said. “If one side takes over the equipment, they can turn it against the other side.”

The soldiers in Debaltseve were a significant part of the Kiev army’s ready fighting force. A year ago, before the war commenced, that number would have been almost the entire combat-ready force of the country, according to estimates the defense minister provided to parliament at the time.


In other words, they just destroyed the greater part of Kiev's army. Bet Poroshenko already has his bags packed. See, there was a military solution, just not the one the West wanted.
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby sparky » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 01:09:15

Back in March 90% of the Ukrainian troops in Crimea went over to the Russian forces , with not a shot being fired

then regular Ukrainian troops send to cower Easterners were stopped by women shouting at them and just left their gear to the local

Kiev formed "National Guard" units out of the "security groups " composed of pravi sector , Svoboda militants and enthusiastic Westerners , bolstered by various volunteers units

those troops have been the backbone of the military operation , noticeable for their commitment , willingness to shell cities and perform indiscriminate shooting

Now a large contingent of those fighters is trapped in Debaltsevo , and the Rebels want them , very much so indeed .
the only access to the kessel seems to have been an "hell road " under direct fire


P.S. journalists have been using the term , boiler , kettle and such to describe the surrounded troops , it seems to be a direct translation of " Kotel "

I believe the very equivalent German term Kessel has more punch to describe large amount of trapped soldier , it was used during the summer of 41 for various situation and more famously in late 42 at Stalingrad , a German friend tell me it is slang for police jail too ?
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 01:38:02

Bloomberg:
Ukraine's President Is Trapped With His Troops
FEB 17, 2015
There are plenty of authoritative Western press reports (here's one from The New York Times and one from The Wall Street Journal), as well as Ukrainian reports citing military sources in the area, confirming that a sizable Ukrainian contingent -- up to 8,000 troops -- has been encircled by separatist forces. (To use military parlance, Ukraine's forces were originally positioned as a salient -- a fragile extension into rebel territory -- but now they are completely surrounded, forced into what Russians call a kotyol, or cauldron.)

The pro-Russian rebels have been talking openly about the encirclement since last week, demanding the Ukrainian troops lay down their weapons and leave Debaltseve. Yet official Kiev -- meaning Poroshenko and the military command -- have never admitted Ukrainian troops are trapped. Today, Kiev's defense ministry confirms street fighting in Debaltseve and says "bandits" now control part of the town. Yet it still stops short of an admission that thousands of its troops have been cut off.

The matter came up during the cease-fire talks in Minsk, but Poroshenko adamantly denied the problem existed.
...
Kiev, for its part, has been trying to wriggle out of an embarrassing military defeat that would have symbolic importance for the country's fiercely patriotic electorate. Poroshenko seems to be hoping that the cease-fire's European guarantors will intervene and force Putin to unblock Debaltseve.
...
The most obvious way to save the cease-fire would be for Poroshenko to acknowledge the encirclement and save his troops from almost certain death by negotiating their safe passage. Russia and its proxies in the area have signaled that they are willing to stop the fighting once that happens: Things have been relatively peaceful along the rest of the separation line. Once the Debaltseve boil is lanced, the sides can execute the artillery pull-back outlined in the cease-fire agreement, originally scheduled to begin in the early morning hours of Wednesday, but now certain to be delayed. Though there are plenty of other traps in the Minsk agreement, there would be time to deal with them later.
...
There is no good way out for the Ukrainian president. All he can do now is try to save his soldiers' lives and hope Putin is satisfied with winning one last military victory in his hybrid war before the conflict is effectively frozen until the end of this year. What happens next turns on whether the Ukrainian leader can stifle his pride and put his political support in jeopardy by taking a plunge into uncertainty.
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 01:39:09

I thought there was only going to be one Ukraine thread now.

I'm trying to avoid hearing about Ukraine.

Unfortunately I had to hear about it on CNN. There was a report all about Debaltseve, then Anderson Cooper just told the reporter "well okay, you stay safe" and then Anderson went on to a story about a new phone app where people offer their bathrooms up to the public. So instead of just finding a restaurant or gas station or whatever, the idea is you use this location-based app and go crap in a total stranger's home. 8O :lol:

I guess Anderson Cooper doesn't want to hear about Ukraine, either. He had nothin' to say about the Ukraine war, but had ten minutes of comment on the new toilet app.

Anyhow -- the CNN report said that the rebels are very well equipped with all the best gear from Russia, and it's not a fair fight. And that all Putin will say is those soldiers trapped in that cauldron should "surrender."

P.S. -- If we are all so up on this Ukraine news, if we all knew about this cauldron and the 8,000 trapped soldiers and that they may get wiped out, if we all knew this even while the "cease fire" was getting negotiated -- then can someone can explain to me how the hell Angela Merkel didn't know it? Or anyone in the Obama administration?

The German parliament actually nominated her for the Nobel Peace Prize. But what about those trapped Ukrainians, are they just gonna get clobbered, and Merkel gets her peace prize? But the war never really ends?

Today Debaltseve, tomorrow Mariupol, and then on and on further west. And one day Estonia, Kazakstan, Poland.


And Cid -- and Keith -- with all due respect -- why do you root for the Russian dictatorship, as it expands by force of invasion and arms. What's up with you guys. Do you dislike the West so much -- where you yourselves live and are American and Canadian -- that you want to see it fall, to real tyranny?

I've never seen anything like it. Nobody rooted for the USSR, back in the cold war. But at least the few that did were communists, so okay, at least you can say they had an ideology. But Russia isn't fighting for communism anymore, it's just the 19th century again and the tsar is expanding the empire -- there's no ideology behind it folks, there's no noble cause on the other side besides "defending the Motherland" and they think they've got to defend it by making the Motherland ever bigger. Wtf. They defend Russia in places that are Not Russia. They want to create Russias in Not Russias.

So why are you guys for that, I do not get it. If you're lefty far left super liberal then what is it about the Putin system you are so enamored with.

EDIT: and another thing -- the fat lady hasn't sung yet.

Ukrainian national guard training starts next month. From thereafter, you will see progressively more aid coming in from Canada and the US, and Britain, and the rest of the West. You won't see us just pulling out of Ukraine. That won't happen.

Ukraine isn't Yemen. We can't ever have a helicopter evacuation of Americans and Brits and Canadians, out of a European embassy.

Western response may be as slow as a glacier, but it also as inevitable and undefeatable as a glacier.

Pro Russia side should enjoy the victories while they last. All they are doing is provoking an ultimately decisive Western intervention. Nobody can say peace wasn't given a chance, or that there were not enough cease fires, nobody say the Russia side was not given a chance as it took more land -- thinking the West was just weak and land is there for the taking. That's their folly, in assuming that.

Fat lady hasn't sung yet, folks.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 02:14:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 02:12:35

Apparently you didn't read the lead on this thread. It's already over. DPR/LPR have already taken the city and are conducting mop up operations.

There is a small group of Kiev forces left, negotiating a surrender.

The Kiev Army has been virtually destroyed, their weapons captured, and little between there and Kiev to stop them.

Sorry, but your Nazi friends lost. When will the Fascists learn that 'don't retreat, don't surrender, fight to the last man' orders just get your Army destroyed.

All they have left are a bunch of old men that didn't run away and hide when they tried to draft them.

I hope the few remaining Nazis from the volunteer battalions are on their way to Kiev to deal with Poroshenko and his ministers as they promised after Ilovaysk. The DPR/LPR might let them live, whereas, I'm sure the Nazis will take their time to express their displeasure.

Again, as I said before, I'm not pro-Russian (although I have nothing against them), but Anti-Nazi.

I just want the Nazis from the Volunteer Batallions to deal with their own leadership first.

And frankly, you're a moron. You don't read what we post. You just spout simplistic indoctrinated propaganda, without even trying to understand what is actually going on.

Well guess, what? We all knew what we were talking about, and the proof is now in the pudding.

The US brokered a coup, and toppled a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT because they refused to sign an agreement with the EU and IMF that would have turned them into impoverished slaves like Greece. Then put a bunch of Nazis in charge. (Who immediately signed that agreement.)

The MAJORITY of Ukrainians fought against this, and are about win their country back.

If that ain't Righteous, I don't know what is. Power to the People.
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 02:42:24

Cid_Yama wrote:Apparently you didn't read the lead on this thread. It's already over. DPR/LPR have already taken the city and are conducting mop up operations.
And 6 didn't read the Bloomberg article above which answers his question :
P.S. -- If we are all so up on this Ukraine news, if we all knew about this cauldron and the 8,000 trapped soldiers and that they may get wiped out, if we all knew this even while the "cease fire" was getting negotiated -- then can someone can explain to me how the hell Angela Merkel didn't know it? Or anyone in the Obama administration?
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 02:46:04

Cid_Yama wrote:Well guess, what? We all knew what we were talking about, and the proof is now in the pudding.


Radon said something very honest one time. He said something like, the mood in Russian media -- or that this was one side of it -- was that "if we don't take Crimea now, then when?"

That's the truth about it Cid. It was just opportunistic land grab. We don't actually think that way, in the West. It's east europe that keeps jumping in our boat. We don't really WANT them. If they could be happy under dictatorship, then God bless them.

But what do we do when there is a color revolution, they say they want to be like us, and it's "Help me, Obi wan kenobi." Can't turn our back on it.

Russia has its Motherland, and we have our City on a Hill -- democracy, the American Way, Western civilization. It's hard to ignore those that earnestly want to join up with that.

Neither side are all angels. I'm happy to be in the bloc that has fair elections and presidential term limits, and democratic institutions, and it's not perfect but no -- I do not want outright "directed democracy" and I'd prefer to not see Putinism spread.

You can say whatever you want to, I stand with Stephen Harper of Canada.

Ukraine conflict: Canada issues new sanctions
Stephen Harper says government is closely monitoring events after Minsk ceasefire agreement

Harper singled out "the indiscriminate attacks in and around the Ukrainian city of Mariupol on Jan. 24," as one reason to step up sanctions.

"Canada's position remains clear: we recognize the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine and will never recognize the illegal Russian occupation of any part of the country," Harper said in a statement.

"In co-ordination with our EU and U.S. partners, Canada is once again intensifying its response to the situation by announcing further sanctions against Russian and Ukrainian individuals and entities," he said.

Harper said his government is closely monitoring the implementation of the ceasefire agreement reached by Russian and Ukrainian leaders in Minsk on Feb. 12 and added he is prepared to take further action against Moscow and Russian-backed rebels if they fail to adhere to the pact.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ukraine-conflict-canada-issues-new-sanctions-1.2961110
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Donetsk » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 02:47:29

What are you smoking Cidyama? Majority of Ukrainians did what? And where?
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 03:19:00

Donetsk wrote:What are you smoking Cidyama? Majority of Ukrainians did what? And where?


I know, right? I wanted to respond to that but this Russia arguing gives me a headache, it never ends, God bless anyone that has to live on Russia's border and has to deal with this all their life. It's maddening.

Cid thinks the Ukrainian nation rose up to fight against the West, good grief. Not even Odessa wants to be annexed by Russia or join up with a peoples' republic.

Here's what he said:

Cid_Yama wrote:that would have turned them into impoverished slaves like Greece. Then put a bunch of Nazis in charge. (Who immediately signed that agreement.)

The MAJORITY of Ukrainians fought against this, and are about win their country back.

If that ain't Righteous, I don't know what is. Power to the People.


The reality: under a Moscow-backed dictator, Ukrainians were poorest in Europe. Poorer than Greeks. The numbers are the numbers, look at the gini index over the years (income levels). All you have to do is look at how Putin raised Russia up, the West raised Poland up, but Ukraine was left behind and never rose up economically.

Putin would like keep Ukraine down, for all time, as a buffer state. Well f*ck that, if Ukrainians don't want it, they don't have to live that way forever. Putin had his chance. They chose the West, to give that a try. Then Putin invaded, to stop them.

Maybe they don't want to be Western, but the vast majority Ukraine definitely wants to be Not Russia. And they have that right! Just as Belarus does -- their president said he'll fight anyone that comes onto the Belurus land, including Putin himself. And Kazakstan has a right to their independence. All nations have this right, and their own choice of where they go and who their allies are and nobody can force them.

Anyhow -- this Russia arguing is so toxic and it never ends with them, I can't do it anymore. Keep the flame goin', D. Personally I'm giving it up. The mainstream and those in charge will catch up in time, I'm too far out ahead on it, and it just pisses me off watching something where the other side keeps winning and our side keeps getting outsmarted and outmaneuvered and fooled.

PUTIN SIGNED A CEASEFIRE. Angela Merkel thought she may get a nobel peace prize. But here we go again, he is not living up to it.

Anyways I'm giving this thing up, I'll check back in 2017 when there's a Republican in the oval office that'll start handlin' thing.
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Scrub Puller » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 03:46:01

Yair . . .

Republican in the oval office that'll start handlin' thing.


If that wasn't so screwed it would be funny.

Cheers.
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby M_B_S » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 03:51:52

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPcb2m-Ab_I

Rebel Leader Sarashenko in Debalzewo

Vido Russia/German subtitle
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 04:00:54

Scrub Puller wrote:If that wasn't so screwed it would be funny.

Cheers.


Well that's what's gonna happen Scrub, USA has two intl probs going on right now -- ISIS and the Ukraine crisis. If liberals do not handle it, then conservatives will.

Ukraine has a democracy now, too. Poro is a moderate and establishment and Yats (the prime minister) is more hard line. This is called democracy. Opposing parties. Different ways of doing things. When one approach doesn't work, then people vote for the other, and if there is rule of law and fair elections and real constitutional government then what is for the best is what works out of that.

I'm giving this topic up. I believe in Ukraine's cause, and all of east europe, as they want to keep their independence. But it's not worth me getting headaches over.

I'll make a final note about the American political perspective: first of all, there's a new defense sec coming in now. Obama has delegated a lot of the Ukraine situation to Biden. I suspect Biden had a hand in choosing this nominee, but I don't know for sure.

The new defense sec is more pro Ukraine, and in favor of arming Ukraine.

It's not just Republicans that criticize O about doing too little on Ukraine, all the Democrats in Congress have too.

Republicans are ramping up their criticism:

Top GOP senators blast Obama admin’s waffling on arming Ukraine military

Two influential Republican national security hawks in the Senate hammered the Obama administration’s failure to take a more aggressive posture toward the war in eastern Ukraine Tuesday, asserting that the White House should “immediately” authorize the shipment of U.S. weapons to the Ukrainian military.

“The Chancellor of Germany and the President of France, with the support of the President of the United States, are legitimizing the dismemberment of a sovereign nation in Europe for the first time in seven decades,” Sens. Lindsay Graham of South Carolina and John McCain of Arizona said in a joint statement.

“It is inexcusable to adhere to a failed cease-fire agreement as Russia and its Ukrainian proxies escalate their uncompromising siege of Debaltseve,” the senators said,
in reference to ongoing shelling of the eastern Ukrainian town by Moscow-backed separatists despite a cease-fire that was supposed to have gone into effect Sunday.

The two senators have fumed since last week, when news emerged that the cease-fire deal had been negotiated by the leaders of France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine, without any direct participation from Washington.

Obama administration officials have resisted that characterization, claiming that they maintained close contacts with all parties involved in the negotiation and supported its formulation Thursday.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/17/john-mccain-lindsey-graham-blast-obama-ukraine/
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 05:15:37

Let us reiterate since you missed it the first time.

Cid_Yama wrote:Apparently you didn't read the lead on this thread. It's already over. DPR/LPR have already taken the city and are conducting mop up operations.

There is a small group of Kiev forces left, negotiating a surrender.

The Kiev Army has been virtually destroyed, their weapons captured, and little between there and Kiev to stop them.

Sorry, but your Nazi friends lost. When will the Fascists learn that 'don't retreat, don't surrender, fight to the last man' orders just get your Army destroyed.

All they have left are a bunch of old men that didn't run away and hide when they tried to draft them.

I hope the few remaining Nazis from the volunteer battalions are on their way to Kiev to deal with Poroshenko and his ministers as they promised after Ilovaysk. The DPR/LPR might let them live, whereas, I'm sure the Nazis will take their time to express their displeasure.

Again, as I said before, I'm not pro-Russian (although I have nothing against them), but Anti-Nazi.

I just want the Nazis from the Volunteer Batallions to deal with their own leadership first.

And frankly, you're a moron. You don't read what we post. You just spout simplistic indoctrinated propaganda, without even trying to understand what is actually going on.

Well, guess what? We all knew what we were talking about, and the proof is now in the pudding.

The US brokered a coup, and toppled a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT because they refused to sign an agreement with the EU and IMF that would have turned them into impoverished slaves like Greece. Then put a bunch of Nazis in charge. (Who immediately signed that agreement.)

The MAJORITY of Ukrainians fought against this, and are about to win their country back.

If that ain't Righteous, I don't know what is. Power to the People.


It was already a democracy, it already had a democratically elected government, which we toppled because they wouldn't give us what we wanted.

Power to the People
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 06:26:11, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Cottager » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 05:21:05

Well, first of all - those are not "rebels", it is russian regular army, tanks are with russian flags, for example
http://static.gazeta.ua/img/cache/galle ... _w_570.jpg
Second - it is war of a gnome leader of strange antiwestern and actually anti human dictatorship, they don't want democracies around, they want the same dictatorships, as every state in CIS. Violence, lies, everything bad comes from this place. You wanna see nazis? You can find them in Mother Russia of course https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLUxuq-E9yA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANOLO1uK7ts Now post-empire wants to strike back, I don't know people, what happened, why are you happy with it???
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 05:46:01

“We have had Ilovaysk. Now we have Debaltseve,” Aleksander Chelobitchenko, a senior lieutenant on the Ukrainian side of the Joint Control Commission, a combined Ukrainian-Russian observation team based in Soledar, said Tuesday. “If you keep cutting the branches off a tree, eventually the tree will die. This is very bad, to lose all this.”

“It’s not just the people. It’s also the equipment and the weapons there,” he said. “If one side takes over the equipment, they can turn it against the other side.”

The soldiers in Debaltseve were
a significant part of the Ukrainian army’s ready fighting force. A year ago, before the war commenced, that number would have been almost the entire combat-ready force of the country, according to estimates the defense minister provided to parliament at the time.


Their army has been destroyed.

Spin all you want. It's over, and the Ukrainian people win. The Western puppet government is about to fall.

I have a feeling another country is about to tell the ECB/IMF to put it where the sun don't shine.
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby radon1 » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 06:41:47

Basically, Ukraine is now ruled by an American/Israeli citizen Poroshenko, American citizen Yatsenuk and Israeli citizen Turchinov. None of them is even ethnically Ukrainian (or Russian for that matter).

Exploiting the law on draft and the natural sense of duty of the Ukrainian men towards their home country, this "leadership" forces these unwilling and disoriented men into a meaningless fratricidal war in the East of the country, treating them as serfs and animals. Reportedly, the war has already claimed as many as 50 000 lives, most of them innocent civilians. Western generals seek to further inflame the war for their career building purposes, and western media openly calls the Ukrainian army "pro-US troops".

The entire country is held in universal terror and oppression by SBU, the Ukrainian state security service, headed by another American citizen and CIA operative Nalivaichenko. SBU itself is crowded with the CIA staff. Some of their methods could make Stalin look like a brother of angels.

The government has been filled by Americans, Georgians, Lithuanians. The hope was that this was a good sign, as those new faces would put the things into some reasonable order. Instead, immediately upon these appointments, the Kiev administration broke the previous ceasefire and resumed the military assault on Donbass with indiscriminate shelling of cities and civilians. These foreigners were needed solely to audit the cash flows which were used to finance the war.

Essentially, Ukrainians have been elbowed off from running their own country. The East of the country is a place of a huge humanitarian catastrophe, and the rest of the country is not too far behind. The country is under an alien bloodthirsty dictatorship.

By all accounts, the country is under appalling western yoke and occupation, to be taken to its place in the history books as a warning for the future generations.
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby radon1 » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 07:07:21

Cid_Yama wrote:Let us reiterate since you missed it the first time.

Cid_Yama wrote:And frankly, you're a moron. You don't read what we post. You just spout simplistic indoctrinated propaganda, without even trying to understand what is actually going on.


Sixstrings never reads anything, this has been noticed a number of times already. It does not look like this is his mission here. His is a shill whose function is to flood certain threads so as to make them unreadable and/or look consistent with the mass media reporting. According to himself, he is "multitasking" - meaning, presumably, that this is not the single place where he is active.

There is also a bit of possibility that he may have some obsessive disorder or substance abuse problem; in any event, it is unclear why the visitors have to shoulder the wordwalls of his drivel.
Last edited by radon1 on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 07:17:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Cottager » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 07:15:29

radon1, what are you smoking? It is russian agression against european country, and these strange american/israeli citisenships - propaganda war, nothing else. Like all the rest lie. The fact is that Russia annexed part of this country and further sending masses of troops to defeat Ukraine, and maybe further extend "russian world". This is the fact. Then russian lies and propaganda begins about how bad ukrainians became after russians invaded the country. By strange coincidence, ukrainians became bad only now, after invasion.
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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Withnail » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 08:37:39

Novorossiya flag flies over Debaltseve.

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Re: Debaltseve falls to DPR/LPR forces

Unread postby Quinny » Wed 18 Feb 2015, 12:35:57

Have you any evidence of the masses of troops. Several people have mentioned this and I have yet to see any evidence.

Cottager wrote:radon1, what are you smoking? It is russian agression against european country, and these strange american/israeli citisenships - propaganda war, nothing else. Like all the rest lie. The fact is that Russia annexed part of this country and further sending masses of troops to defeat Ukraine, and maybe further extend "russian world". This is the fact. Then russian lies and propaganda begins about how bad ukrainians became after russians invaded the country. By strange coincidence, ukrainians became bad only now, after invasion.
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