[Withnail]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/11/23 ... port-says/

China building massive island big enough for airstrip, report says

China appears to be flexing its considerable military muscle, building a massive island that could host an airstrip in an area of the South China Sea that has become a source of regional tension over disputed territorial claims.

IHS Jane’s said satellite imagery it obtained showed that in the past three months Chinese dredges have created a land mass that is almost the entire length of Fiery Cross Reef in the contested Spratly Islands.

The leading defense publication reported Thursday that the satellite pictures also showed the dredges are creating a seaport east of the reef that would appear to be large enough to receive tankers and major surface combatants.

[Shaved Monkey]

We have as much chance of stopping them as we have stopping Israelis building on disputed territory.

[BobInget]

(;-Perhaps we should withhold billions in foreign military aid from China if they continue to build on contested lands to which they have zero legal claim.

Except for the fact that Israel has ripped off Palestinians for their land,
birthright, natural gas, China is just going after oil as The Good Lord intended.

Two subjects seem forbidden in reports from Gaza, The West Bank,
or Spratlys; Natural Gas for Israel and China's insatiable oil oil requirements.

[Islander]

There was a time when America would of done something in retaliation, but governments around the world have seen Obama only take token measures in response to Russia's invasion/annex of Ukraine. America used to be seen as strong around the world, but it is quickly becoming a joke that people can ignore and that is before their oil production goes into decline.

[Sixstrings]

What's with the headline, "US Whines?" What are you, a Chinese nationalist now?

Here's the real fact -- listen to that sound -- it's the sound of silence, and some crickets in the background. We Americans don't care, anymore.

You've gotten your wish.

You won't have Nixon to kick around anymore.

You -- the anti-american rest of the world -- have accepted dictatorship and tyranny spreading, and you continue to poke at us and put us down so fine -- we join you, America is bad and China is good and our navy and air force can stay home.

Australia, Vietnam, Japan, the Phillipines -- they are on their own now, thanks to all the quislings and anti-americans in the world. This is what you guys wanted. You said America was so bad, so here you go, there's a new boss in town and his name is Xi Jinping.

[Sixstrings]

The Chinese, one billion plus strong, are proud and nationalist and on the rise in the world.

They're gonna do what they want to do, and YOU all have chosen this -- with your Noam Chomsky books and your kicking around of America, you finally brought Atlas down, congratulations.

So, given the new world order and that the West is all jello now and half the people in the West are playing ball for the other team anyway, we will not complain in this thread about Chinese expansion.

Instead, let's celebrate the glories of Chinese Communism, you guys say it's better right? That it was the USA that was the bad guy, right?

So okay, no complaints.









America protects endangered sea turtles.

This Chinese fisherman, seized by Filipino coast guard, had 500 turtles on his boat:

Philippines police capture Chinese fishing boat in South China Sea
Philippine police confirm detention of Chinese fishing boat in waters close to the disputed Spratly Islands over haul of 500 turtles
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1506539/armed-men-intercept-fishermen-south-china-sea-official-media

I guess that's a whole other issue. Supposedly-bad America protects endangererd species, while Asians -- billions of them -- won't stop eating them.

[sparky]

.
It's cool , America should stick to the Americas , less problems that way
let China do its thing in Asia , Europe deal with its increasing African sensibility
and the rest go to the dogs , like ....who care ! don't make it your business and there will be less blowback

[GHung]

sparky: ...."let China do its thing in Asia...."

Sure, spark. Meanwhile they'll just buy what they want in the Western Hemisphere; US corporations, farmland, ag production, oil production, even a 50 year lease and construction contracts on the Nicaragua Canal (100 year option). All the US can do is watch it play out from the cheap seats.

[Sixstrings]

.
It's cool , America should stick to the Americas , less problems that way
let China do its thing in Asia , Europe deal with its increasing African sensibility
and the rest go to the dogs , like ....who care ! don't make it your business and there will be less blowback

Well yep, that's the Obama strategy. "Lead from behind, let a coalition form, don't do anything until the last minute."

On the plus side -- the provinces handle their own problems for a while and Rome doesn't get blamed for everything. Downside -- a lot of people have to die, like in Ukraine right now, because the global order leader USA is not there anymore.

So the regional powers scuffule and fight it out and petty wars go on, now, there is no HW Bush anymore to say "this aggression will not stand."

So okay. That's cool.

We'll wind up doing something for Ukraine, and we'll always stick by Poland and the Baltics. But otherwise, we're worn out.. we've got no energy left for Asia.. it's on its own.

China and India will have to jostle with each other, and Australia will have to find its way in the chess game between those two, and Japan.

Maybe it will work out, maybe not and these young nationalist upstarts in Asia will set nukes off.

I personally do not care, I'm worn out about it. As an American I've got no dog in the fight over these fisheries and barren islands in the south china sea.

I guess we'd have to schlep on out to defend the Phillipines, but we really don't want to.. best would be hold the line at Hawaii.

Having said the above -- our gov should get more aggressive with China. Obama shouldn't be flying to Beijing and wearing the star trek oriental outfit they gave him --HE SHOULD HAVE WORN A SUIT.

Anyhow yep this is Asia's problem, and Australia's, I feel no pull to it. You guys are going to have to figure this one out and handle it. Australia may have to divert social spending to military, and build a credible navy and military force.

We'll see what happens -- maybe a nuke will go off at some point, Pakistan and India or China / India. Things could fly out of control with China, and Japan. And then everyone will say "maybe the old global order, led by the USA, was not so bad after all."

Or maybe they will blame the USA, for building China up to start with -- all of China's success is on the back of American jobs offshored to them, and American capitalist investment. We have our own way of creating our own enemies, don't we? We always think we're making a new friend, we assume that with capitalism comes democracy, but then they just bite us. We forget the lesson that giving capitalism to a place, could create nationalist fascism and not democracy. Capitalism can be fascist too, and create awesome war machines.

[Sixstrings]

Sure, spark. Meanwhile they'll just buy what they want in the Western Hemisphere; US corporations, farmland, ag production, oil production, even a 50 year lease and construction contracts on the Nicaragua Canal (100 year option). All the US can do is watch it play out from the cheap seats.

We'll have to watch China.

They've got a hardcore nationalist thing kind of brewing -- if China makes that actual turn, from gentle giant behemoth wanting global stability, to crazy-eyed Asian nationalist staring at you -- then we've got to respond.

There is nothing more scary than an Asian nationalist. There are billions of them, and they've got a hive mind like mentality. It could be very dangerous.

If China makes that turn, then we'll have to elect some hardcore nationalists ourselves, and throw the globalist twits out on their ears. The whiners at Boeing that want to keep buying Russian engines, and all they care about is their outsourcing and making money, these globalists will be dinosaurs in a new nationalist world.

If we face nationalist threats, we'll have to turn nationalist too.

We'll have to be aggressive -- no more wanting to do business with China, no more letting them buy our Smithfield Ham and buying our farms and buying everything and taking over the Western Hemisphere like they're doing in Africa.

Let China take Russian farms, colonize Russia instead, let Russians be stuck with that since they chose it.

We'll just have to watch carefully for that turn, when China goes from reasonable giant to wild-eyed billion pop crazy hive mind nationalists.

[Cid_Yama]

...crazy hive mind nationalists

You mean like yourself?

You sure do have a thing about wanting to pick fights with major nuclear powers.

[Withnail]

What's with the headline, "US Whines?" What are you, a Chinese nationalist now?

Here's the real fact -- listen to that sound -- it's the sound of silence, and some crickets in the background. We Americans don't care, anymore.

You'd do something about it if you could, but you're too scared of China.

Obama kowtowed to his new master.

[ROCKMAN]

"You'd do something about it if you could, but you're too scared of China." A simple question: why should the US get involved with this situation? It has no direct impact on our interests. In fact, in a rather minor way, China developing oil resources in the area benefits the US: the more local oil China has access to the less they'll import. Which means less competition with our imported oil sources. Not only is it not our oil they're trying to produce but oil that probably wouldn't be entering the market place if China wasn't developing the area.

And as far as the folks who claim that oil is theirs: go defend your rights...that's their responsibility...not ours. Maybe they should begin spending a big portion of their national budget on their military...as the US does.

[Cid_Yama]

In fact, ... China developing oil resources in the area benefits the US: the more local oil China has access to the less they'll import. Which means less competition with our imported oil sources. Not only is it not our oil they're trying to produce but oil that probably wouldn't be entering the market place if China wasn't developing the area.

Exactly. Oil is fungible.

As Jim Rogers said, UK was the 19th century power, US the 20th, and China the power of the 21st Century.

Western multinational plutocrats sold US hegemony for cheap labor, which it thought was fungible, but wasn't. It really DID matter where the industrial infrastructure was. They thought they could eventually turn the working classes of all nations into subsistence level semi-slave labor. That Western workers would eventually be forced to accept Mexican, or Vietnamese, or Philippine wages and standards of living.

You see, they no longer felt any single nation mattered. They saw themselves above nationality, They saw themselves as a global power that would soon rule above all nations.

Didn't quite work out that way. They got too big for their britches. And didn't expect rising new powers to emerge who might object, who might envision a more inclusive paradigm.

[SeaGypsy]

China has been testing resolve in the South China Sea for a few years now. The Spratleys have nothing to do with China and they are on the Philippines doorstep. Islands off Vietnam are in a similar situation. The USA has made some pissant efforts in support of both country's navies, nothing of any significance.

The only answer to Chinese empire building in SE Asia is for ASEAN to get its act much more together than it has ever been. The alliance is so far all about trade & movement of people, very little military cooperation exists between member nations, most of which are still in the $2-3 per day/ person survival bracket/ incapable of creating or sustaining substantial military infrastructure.

Effectively the Philippines is being punished for booting out the US bases over 20 years ago. Vietnam is on the wrong side of the political fence. The wealthier countries in the region (Australia is not in ASEAN), have shown no interest in setting up regional military cooperation. Australia recently hosted war games in Darwin, with ASEAN members & UAE. These were a first, probably not a last, and as far as the idea of intimidating China, minuscule.

[ralfy]

The U.S. cannot act because China is a main trading partner. The other countries in the region can barely respond for the same reasons.

[Sixstrings]

The U.S. cannot act because China is a main trading partner. The other countries in the region can barely respond for the same reasons.

Well, the US could if it wanted to. Crap can in fact be made in this country, and people need the jobs back anyhow.

It's a question of what's the compelling reason for war? These islands?

Crimea is a bigger deal than those little islands are. China needs better propagandists. To convince everyone that Vietnamese and Filipinos are nazis, and that China is doing the world a favor by taking them over.

US must be getting something in RETURN, in exchange for getting into that mess in the Pacific. As far as I can tell we aren't, what's the payback for us, as has been posted the region went anti-american a long time ago and Filipinos kicked US bases out.

So now Filipinos have China on their doorstep. Well, serves you right Phillipines, uncle sam wasn't so bad after all right?

I think I'm an isolationist when it comes to the Pacifc. Pull back, hold back, let them fight it out and sort it out.

It's certainly to US advantage if we do nothing and allow a crisis to develop, so that the others in the region will spend more on military and learn to work with each other and make military alliances and this removes the burden from us.

Because at the end of the day.. we ain't gettin' no tax revenue out of Australia or the Phillipines.. what's the point.

The world said it didn't want US global cop anyway, but even if they did want it, we gave China all our jobs and infrastructure. So there's no payback anymore, we get no money to help pay for defending these other places, it makes no sense.

Now we're just partial about Israel and Poland and Ukraine and the Baltics, so fine that's different, but Vietnam? What are we gonna do, be stuck in the jungle again this time defending Vietnam from the Chinese?

[SeaGypsy]

8% of global fisheries, 45% of global oil shipping. Potentially regionally significant hydrocarbon deposits, all in an area China has no legitimate claim to. If this did ever turn into a full blown conflict, it would directly affect the USA whether or not 6 Strings likes it or even understands why. Compared to Ukraine, which could be let go with minimal impact outside it's region.

The idea that anyone in SE Asia expects the USA to seriously police the South China Sea is quite outdated. The idea anyone in the region can stand up to China in a serious way, other than Japan which is one of the most militarily isolationist countries in the world, is absurd.

What will happen in SE Asia is more of the same. The USA won't let the Mallacca straits be blocked, will defend international shipping routes, will not engage in taking sides over the fisheries or oil/ gas. Everyone is beholden to China as Ralphy states.

[Keith_McClary]

South Korea Blasts Japan’s Island Claims in History Texts

South Korea blasted Japan’s decision to include its claim to disputed islands in all middle-school history textbooks for the first time from 2016.
The books “distort, reduce and omit clear historical facts and strengthen the unjust argument over our sovereign territory,” the Foreign Ministry in Seoul said in a statement on its website in reference to the islets known as Takeshima in Japan and Dokdo in South Korea. This shows Japan “has no willingness to play a responsible role as a neighboring nation,” it said.
The eight books for 12-15 year-olds approved by the government Monday will all contain Japan’s assertion to the islands, as well its claim to a group of islets in the East China Sea disputed with China, the Nikkei newspaper reported. Currently, only one of seven texts includes such wording.
The move comes just as Japan restarts official talks with South Korea and China at various levels. Both countries have called for Japan’s students to be taught more about the country’s aggression in the region before and during World War II, and the territorial dispute has helped prevent Prime Minister Shinzo Abe from holding a full summit meeting with South Korean President Park Geun Hye.
“It’s important to include accurate information about our country’s territory in textbooks so children will understand it correctly,” Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga told reporters in Tokyo on Monday.
The Japanese government’s view on the islands has been included in teachers’ manuals since January last year.
All textbooks used in Japanese schools must be approved by the government, which conducted a review of books submitted by publishers in line with government guidelines issued last year.

The Territorial Dispute Over Dokdo

Energy Resources and Exclusive Economic Zones

The Dokdo issue is not just about the ownership of the two islets. Both countries consider the ownership of Dokdo as an anchor for their respective interests in the surrounding waters. At stake are claims to about 16,600 square nautical miles of sea and seabed, including areas that may hold some 600 million tons of gas hydrate (natural gas condensed into semisolid form). This gas hydrate is believed to be deposited along the broad seabed extending from Dokdo to Guryongpo, North Kyongsang Province. Gas hydrate is a next-generation energy source that could be made into liquid natural gas if adequate technology is made available. The island is surrounded by fertile fishing grounds, and both sides frequently attempt to bolster their claims to it. Also spurring the fishing competition is a fear of dwindling sea resources. Japanese fishing officials say the depletion of fish stocks in other parts of the world means their country must rely more on waters closer to home. The northwestern Pacific in general has more underused fish stocks than other areas, according to the U.N.