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What happened to flight MH17?

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What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby JuanP » Fri 29 Aug 2014, 17:21:28

Since this subject appears to have mostly disappeared from MSM's radar and people's thoughts, I was hoping we could share here links and opinions about flight MH17.
MH17's Wiki: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia ... _Flight_17
Russia Today article on the subject: http://rt.com/op-edge/183132-only-truth-flight-mh17/
Some points to consider:
1) Who downed flight MH17 and why?
2) How was it done?
3) Was it intentional?
4) Who knew about it, if intentional?
"Human stupidity has no limits" JuanP
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby JuanP » Fri 29 Aug 2014, 17:27:32

"Human stupidity has no limits" JuanP
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Strummer » Fri 29 Aug 2014, 18:24:57

All talking points have been beaten to death by now, until the first preliminary report comes out (which should be in a week or two, I guess), that will spark a new round of speculations and theories. I think it was either:

1. the separatists shot it down by mistake, possibly with some involvement of the ukrainian forces (provocation, "hiding behind" or something similar)

2. badly trained inexperienced ukrainian volunteers shot it down by mistake during an exercise.

Anything else (including the "ukrainian false flag operation") seems way too far-fetched.
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Quinny » Fri 29 Aug 2014, 18:46:24

I've always been a cock up rather than conspiracy advocate, and hope the 'mistake' theory proves to be correct, but in this circumstance I am tending to see some 'conspiracy' even if it is only 'provocation'. Why was the fight even there in the first place?
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Red Pill » Fri 29 Aug 2014, 19:52:25

With it being regular news prior to MH17 that yet another Ukrainian aircraft had gotten shot down, we at the very least know that the "rebels" had a history of shooting at flying things, because they knew they didn't have any.
Now, on a risk/reward basis, it is near unthinkable that the Ukrainians would attempt a false-flag like this because it is all risk and very limited reward. And the risk would be off the charts, if shown they did it they would be handed to Russia and maps would be redrawn the next day.
Door #2, the guys who had previously gotten pats on the back for another good shoot-down fire their new bottle-rocket at the wrong thing, oops!
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Paulo1 » Fri 29 Aug 2014, 20:02:07

The atc tapes would have been made public eons ago if it were Russians or rebels that did the deed. Silence suggests an eff up.

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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Red Pill » Fri 29 Aug 2014, 21:07:03

And your response suggests you believe that it wasn't a false-flag, but that the Ukrainians "eff'd up" by shooting a large aircraft (this would show on a fighter's radar) that was headed EAST? So I'd just like to solidify that you do not think this was done by the Ukrainians on purpose, but that you believe it was done by them and not the "rebels".

If that plane got hit from a I Mean Business SAM, then the atc tapes would have nothing to offer because the pilots went from living to unconscious/dead before they could say anything to atc.
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby JuanP » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 09:52:02

I want to wait until the investigation is completed, even if I don't believe there can be an impartial investigation because of US interference.
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Red Pill » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 12:40:17

Well, at least we know where your bias lies. And last I heard, it's the Netherlands that's leading the international investigation. But of course, they're just pawns of the evil U.S.

The pro-Russia/anti-U.S. slant on this site is getting a tad over the top. God I miss TOD!
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby AndyA » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 12:44:50

Because of the rush to jump to conclusions there will only be one outcome from the report. The war in Ukraine is first and foremost an information war. The truth will not come out until way after it matters. Just like WMD's or flight 007.

All parties have a long history of lying, you can't expect them to start telling the truth now. Since when do liars suddenly start telling the truth?

The pro-Russia/anti-U.S. slant on this site is getting a tad over the top.

not just here, people are sick of being lied to. They havn't experienced being lied to by Russia, and want to believe there are honest people out there.
If you want the truth to stand clear before you, never be for or against. The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease. -Sen-ts'an
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Strummer » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 12:57:17

AndyA wrote:They havn't experienced being lied to by Russia, and want to believe there are honest people out there.


As someone who lives in a former eastern bloc country, I'd say we have plenty of experience with the Russians lying, but the difference (in the last 20 years) has been in the consequences of that lying. When the Russians lied about their soldiers on the Crimea, the result was peace for the people of Crimea. When the US lied about the WMDs in Iraq, the result was death and destruction of millions of lives. That's what matters to me. I don't give a damn about about politicians lying, that's their job. I care about the end result and the lives of ordinary helpless people.
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 13:08:28

Strummer wrote: When the Russians lied about their soldiers ...the result was peace


You aren't paying close attention. There is no peace.

The Russians are invading eastern Ukraine and the result is the war in eastern Ukraine. :idea:
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Strummer » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 13:21:52

Plantagenet wrote:
Strummer wrote: When the Russians lied about their soldiers ...the result was peace


You aren't paying close attention. There is no peace.

The Russians are invading eastern Ukraine and the result is the war in eastern Ukraine. :idea:


I was talking about the Crimea, you sad troll. Why don't you visit the Crimea, as part of your extensive travels that you love to boast about on this forum, and ask the people there how they feel?

And nobody is "invading" anyone. If the Russians were invading, there would be a Russian flag raised over Kiev a month ago.
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 13:36:57

Strummer wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:
Strummer wrote: When the Russians lied about their soldiers ...the result was peace


You aren't paying close attention. There is no peace.

The Russians are invading eastern Ukraine and the result is the war in eastern Ukraine. :idea:


I was talking about the Crimea


After the Nazis rolled across Poland in WWII and the front line of the Nazi invasion advanced into Russia, Poland was peaceful. Similarly, Crimea is no longer the front line of the Russian invasion of Ukraine going on now. The front line of the Russian invasion of Ukraine has now moved to eastern Ukraine, and its definitely not peaceful in eastern Ukraine.
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Strummer » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 13:55:48

You are even more removed from reality than I thought... also, I see that you have zero knowledge of WWII history, claiming that Poland was "peaceful" during the occupation.
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby radon1 » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 14:18:25

Red Pill wrote:Well, at least we know where your bias lies. And last I heard, it's the Netherlands that's leading the international investigation. But of course, they're just pawns of the evil U.S.

The pro-Russia/anti-U.S. slant on this site is getting a tad over the top. God I miss TOD!


Obviously, the "US interference" refers to a specific political faction in the US that runs the show on behalf of the US, rather than to the people of the US in general.

To believe that "the US" thus defined do not interfere in the Ukrainian affairs would be very naive. Ukraine does not have a single person at the helm acting independently on their own currently, only puppets; thinking otherwise would be delusional.
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Strummer » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 15:05:48

Btw, Plant, here's a CNN report from Novoazovsk, the current epicenter of the "Russian invasion":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUWttDxSfJk

no invasion anywhere to be seen, according to CNN.
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby radon1 » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 15:12:46

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/03/fl ... io-shifts/

Exclusive: From magazine covers to pronouncements by top politicians, Official Washington jumped to the conclusion that Ukrainian rebels and Russia were guilty in the shoot-down of a Malaysian passenger plane. But some U.S. intelligence analysts may see the evidence differently, writes Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

Contrary to the Obama administration’s public claims blaming eastern Ukrainian rebels and Russia for the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, some U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings.
...
Some independent analyses of the initial evidence from the crash site suggest the jetliner may have been destroyed by an air-to-air attack, not by an anti-aircraft missile fired from the ground. Yet, the working hypothesis of the U.S. intelligence analysts is that a Ukrainian military Buk battery and the jetfighters may have been operating in collusion as they hunted what they thought was a Russian airliner, possibly even the plane carrying President Vladimir Putin on a return trip from South America, the source said.

The source added that the U.S. intelligence analysis does not implicate top Ukrainian officials, such as President Petro Poroshenko or Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, suggesting that the attack may have been the work of more extremist factions, possibly even one of the Ukrainian oligarchs who have taken an aggressive approach toward prosecuting the war against the ethnic Russian rebels in the east.
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby Kristen » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 19:03:16

It's no conspiracy that the mainstream media have swept this story under the rug to focus on more sensational matters like the Ferguson shooting and Nikki Minaj dissing Iggy Azalea (the horror!). Our media has once again proven that is suffers from ADHD and is responsible for infecting the public with the same disorder.
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Re: What happened to flight MH17?

Unread postby JuanP » Sat 30 Aug 2014, 20:57:26

Kristen, The, classic by now, MSM's short attention span is why I created this forum. I knew when the plane came down that after two weeks nobody would give a hoot about it any longer. That's just the way it rolls.
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