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Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

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Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 03:56:17

Image
Russian Army Engineering tanks drive near the Baikal Lake on July 17

Pentagon intelligence agencies are closely watching Russian and Chinese war games now taking place in Europe and Asia involving tens of thousands of troops.

Meanwhile, NATO military forces are set to conduct large-scale maneuvers in November that will be designed to counter growing concerns of a westward Russian military encroachment, according to U.S. officials.

“The Russians are moving forces closer to Europe, and that is troubling,” said a military official.

Russia’s Zapad-13 military exercises in Belarus are scheduled to end Thursday. They included practice attacks on a western state, said one official familiar with reports of the maneuvers.

Some 13,000 Russian and Belarusian troops took part with over 60 aircraft and helicopters and up to 250 vehicles.

The forces practiced “rapid reaction” drills.

Russian officials recently denied Polish press reports that the Zapad-13 would include a notional nuclear attack on Warsaw. However, Russian officials have said the war games will involve practicing precision air and missile strikes.

On the Russian air base, Russian air force chief Lt. Gen. Vladimir Bondarev announced in June that the air base for Su-27 jets in Belarus would be opened near the city of Lida, near the border with Poland and Lithuania.

Bondarev said the warplanes would bolster a 1997 defense agreement between the two countries in response to NATO expansion.

It will be Russia’s first military base in Europe since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and along with it the Warsaw Pact, in 1991. Moscow currently has military bases in Armenia, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan.

Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko has moved away from democracy and shifted the former Soviet republic away from Europe and toward Russia, restoring many symbols from Soviet Belarus.

In response to Polish press reports on the simulated nuclear strike on Poland’s capital, state-run Interfax news agency in April denied the reports. “Claims that West 2013 will allegedly practice a preventive nuclear strike on Warsaw are nothing but imagination of Polish journalists,” a high-ranking officer was quoted as saying.

Belarusian Deputy Defense Minister Maj. Gen. Pyotr Tsikhanowski said in June, “The theme of the exercise is the training and the engagement of troops in order to ensure the military security of the Union State [of Belarus and Russia].” New weapons and military equipment will be tested during the exercises, he added.

War game scenarios include an “escalation of relations with countries based on interethnic, interreligious differences, and territorial claims,” he said.

“At the same time, the conflicting states are hypothetically located within the actual borders of Belarus and the three western and northwestern regions of Russia,” Tsikhanowski said.

U.S. military officials said the war games are part of a larger Russian effort to use military power to bolster its position in the former Soviet republics with a larger military presence.

Russia also has a ballistic missile warning radar at Baranovichi, Belarus, and a Navy communications facility used to communicate with Russian submarines. Moscow also supplied Belarus with advanced S-300 missile defenses and Tor-M2 surface-to-air missiles.

The exercises drew criticism from Eastern European NATO governments.

“Russia has officially stated that these are anti-terrorism exercises,” Lithuanian Defense Minister Juozas Olekas told AFP. “But the number of participants and amount of military equipment indicates that that this is not their agenda.”
http://freebeacon.com/russia-china-hold-large-scale-war-games/


Polish press claims the Russian war games include a simulated nuke attack on Warsaw. Russia is building its first foreign soil military base since the Soviet Union. Large-scale wargames with China. You guys still think I'm all wrong about Russia?

Honestly, personally I don't care I just look at the world and try to figure it out because it's interesting to me. From what I can tell, under Putin Russia has been on, and continues, a track toward asserting itself on its neighbors. I can foresee down the road Russia getting more aggressive and pushing on its neighbors, and using its military power as leverage in re-asserting control over the former soviet bloc -- nations that are democratic now, and don't want and are leary of Russian control.

Meanwhile, I guess folks like Seagypsy say it's the Americans and West who are the bad guys here and we should just all do business with China and for Australia anyway that "they're making us rich" as SG said in the mideast thread. All you guys are so anti-American, WHAT do you want the US and West to do? Should we lay down and let China and Russia expand unchecked, am I wrong to be concerned about Putin and Russian nationalism?

Some Polish are very concerned about Russia, but at the end of the day I guess neither the average American nor Australian cares about Poland? Nobody cares, until it's too late and you're too weak and then you've got a real problem on your hands.

So guys, what should the West do here? Ignore these trends going on with Russia? Is NATO right or wrong to check Russia tit for tat? What's your honest opinion, is it just "who's John Galt" and nothing matters and we can all bash the USA while Russia and China do whatever they want? Is there any point at all where you anti-americans would ever start being concerned about Russia and China? Why is hating on the US so vogue and the same people, who live in Western countries no less, are silent on Putin and China?
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 05:18:05

Maybe because they become more similar as time goes by and the US is more dangerous in firepower than both plus all their friends whacked together? Does it take an anti American to read a pie chart? 8O
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 07:34:03

SeaGypsy wrote:Maybe because they become more similar as time goes by and the US is more dangerous in firepower than both plus all their friends whacked together? Does it take an anti American to read a pie chart? 8O


Pfft, Russia could have joined NATO. Best way to defeat NATO, make it irrelevant.

You didn't answer the question though. Are there still two "sides?" The democratic free world vs. the Russians? What's the point of continuing this, so that they can pressure and control the old soviet republics and eastern europe? You see, they're playing empire too while criticizing us as the same time.

Canada and Australia don't need anti-US wargames, your nation runs itself and does what it likes without fear of American invasion -- if anything you're getting taken over by Chinese but the US isn't stopping you.

Why does Russia keep up the cold war mentality? I think they want to push their neighbors around and exert force and clawback some old soviet power so really that makes them no better than what you dislike so much about American foreign policy.

Maybe both sides are schoolyard bullies, all i know is our side still has free speech and cares about fair elections and promotes human rights and democracy in the world.

I challenge you to find ANYTHING Russians have done to promote democracy and fair elections around the world. And does Russia give any foreign aid, just to do good in the world? SG, do you have any idea how much money the US pours out in humanitarian aid? Look what the US did for AIDS in Africa:

The President's Emergency Plan For AIDS Relief (PEPFAR/Emergency Plan) was a commitment of $15 billion over five years (2003–2008) from United States President George W. Bush to fight the global HIV/AIDS pandemic. The program initially aimed to provide antiretroviral treatment (ART) to 2 million HIV-infected people in resource-limited settings, to prevent 7 million new infections, and to support care for 10 million people (the "2–7–10 goals") by 2010. PEPFAR increased the number of Africans receiving ART from 50,000 at the start of the initiative in 2004 to at least 1.2 million in early 2008.[1][2] PEPFAR has been called the largest health initiative ever initiated by one country to address a disease.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief


That's $15 billion dollars, to save 19 million people plus however many more millions if the pandemic continued. Would Vladimir Putin ever do that? Hell no. And that's just on one issue, the US has always been there for every famine around the world (including Russia, twice) and on every kind of humanitarian issue the US is there, #1, doing the most for the world.

Have Russians done anything like that? Or the Chinese? Seriously, if you look at the three world powers you see two are out for themselves and only one has humanitarian values. Post me some links about all the good Russia does in the world and maybe I'll change my mind.

America, and "our side," really *IS* exceptional. No other government gives more money to do good in the world than the US. And no other people in the world give more to global charity than Americans.

So what about Russia? What good are they doing around the world? Other than wargames about Poland. These are relevant questions as all of you guys non-stop bash the US and our Western humanitarian values, and you welcome rising Russian and Chinese leadership in the world.

EDIT -- Heck, Russia was one of the recipients of American aid, billions of dollars since the USSR fall, until they kicked us out in 2012:
On Tuesday, Nuland said that while USAID would leave Russia “we remain committed to supporting democracy, human rights, and the development of a more robust civil society in Russia, and we look forward to continuing our close cooperation with Russian non-governmental organizations.”

She added that USAID had worked over the years with the Russian government to “fight AIDS there, fight tuberculosis, help orphans, help the disabled, combat trafficking, support Russian programs in the environmental area, wildlife protection.”

“So it is our hope that Russia will now, itself, assume full responsibility and take forward all of this work that we were proud to do together so that the Russian people continue to have the benefit,” she said.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/19/13956839-russia-tells-us-we-dont-want-your-aid-money?lite
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 08:22:59

Greenpeace activists facing piracy charges in Russia, their ship the Arctic Sunrise seized by Russian forces in international waters, crew could be imprisoned for 15 years:

Image

SALEKHARD, Russia — Russia announced on Tuesday that it had opened a piracy investigation against the crew of a Greenpeace ship after its activists scaled an offshore oil platform in the Arctic last week. The step signaled that the authorities intended to act decisively to thwart more protests against Russia’s ambitious plans to expand energy exploration in the region.

Russian border guards seized the Greenpeace ship, the Arctic Sunrise, in international waters in the Pechora Sea on Thursday, a day after several members of the crew tried to board the Prirazlomnaya platform, which is operated by the Russian state energy giant Gazprom.

The ship was towed to port in Murmansk, arriving on Tuesday. Its crew of 30, held incommunicado since the seizure, includes citizens of 18 countries, among them one American, raising the prospect of a diplomatic confrontation given the gravity of the piracy charges, which carry a sentence of up to 15 years in prison.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/25/world ... wanted=all


I don't feel too sorry for Greenpeace. They should know the Russians don't mess around. I think Russia has no right to seize their ship though, and imprison crew who never boarded the Russian rig, all of this in international waters.

This is just another example of how aggressive Russia is getting.

In the future, resource exploitation of the arctic will be a flashpoint between Russia and the West.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Fri 27 Sep 2013, 08:32:52, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby radon1 » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 08:24:30

Sixstrings wrote:Would Vladimir Putin ever do that?
Man, that's hypocritical. What kind of comparison is this. Putin does not own the world's printing machine. You soak the entire world with your wealth pump dry, then give bits here and there, which are drops compared to the waterfall produced by your printing press, and then ask "would they do that?". What a joke.

Hell no. And that's just on one issue, the US has always been there for every famine around the world (including Russia, twice)
This was really nice. At that time, you had a dignified leadership genuinely concerned with the fate of people suffering from hunger, rather than bombing indiscriminately "to safe the free world from the barbarians". Who really deserves the Nobel Peace Prize, one should ask.

Post me some links about all the good Russia does in the world and maybe I'll change my mind.


The Russian Anti-Disaster Ministry routinely offers help with any noticeable natural disaster in the world, and provides it when the offer is accepted.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-25/russia-offers-to-help-clean-up-fukushima-as-tepco-calls-for-help.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

Russia: Was one of the first countries to offer assistance. Up to four jets were placed on standby at the Ramenskoye Airport near Moscow as early as August 30, including heavy Ilyushin Il-76-TDs with special evacuation equipment, medical equipment, a water-cleansing system, a BK-117 rescue helicopter and two special cars; and a passenger IL-62, which brought 10 coordinators and 50 rescuers, as well as 6 tons of drinking water. On September 6, the Bush administration gave its approval.[41]


Look at the list of the countries that helped with Katrina at the second link. Starts with Afghanistan providing USD 100k.

China, Russia.. Russia, China... China, Russia.. free world.. Bogeyman is back.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby radon1 » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 08:41:02

Sixstrings wrote:Greenpeace activists facing piracy charges in Russia
..
In the future, resource exploitation of the arctic will be a flashpoint between Russia and the West.


Pechora Sea is deep deep inside the Russian territorial waters, far behind Barents Sea where Russia and Norway have recently settled the delineation of the sea border. Look at the map. Surprising that their ship got that far. Given MSM's nonsense about "the international waters" this was probably a well-planned provocation. Testing ground how far they can get. More should follow.

And you are surprised why Putin is beefing up the military after quarter century of neglect.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 08:51:27

radon1 wrote:China, Russia.. Russia, China... China, Russia.. free world.. Bogeyman is back.


As for boogeyman.. I bet those Greenpeace activists are scared, taken by Russian forces off their ship in international waters. If convicted of piracy they're looking at some serious hard time in a Russian prison.

It's not anyone else who is making Russia out to be a boogeyman, it's Putin's Russia that's doing these things one after another that has a lot of people concerned.

Those wargames were targeted at Poland with a simulated nuke attack, and invasion including amphibious troop landing:

Image

Russia 'simulates' nuclear attack on Poland

The armed forces are said to have carried out "war games" in which nuclear missiles were fired and troops practised an amphibious landing on the country's coast.

Poland, which has strained relations with both countries, was cast as the "potential aggressor".
The documents state the exercises, code-named "West", were officially classified as "defensive" but many of the operations appeared to have an offensive nature.

The Russian air force practised using weapons from its nuclear arsenal, while in the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad, which neighbours Poland, Red Army forces stormed a "Polish" beach and attacked a gas pipeline.

The operation also involved the simulated suppression of an uprising by a national minority in Belarus – the country has a significant Polish population which has a strained relationship with authoritarian government of Belarus.

Karol Karski, an MP from Poland's Law and Justice, is to table parliamentary questions on Russia's war games and has protested to the European Commission.

His colleague, Marek Opiola MP, said: "It's an attempt to put us in our place. Don't forget all this happened on the 70th anniversary of the Soviet invasion of Poland."

Ordinary Poles were outraged by news of the exercise and demanded a firm response fro the government. One man, identified only as Ted, told Polskie Radio: "Russia has laid bare its real intentions with respect to Poland. Every Pole most now get of the off the fence and be counted as a patriot or a traitor."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/6480227/Russia-simulates-nuclear-attack-on-Poland.html
Last edited by Sixstrings on Fri 27 Sep 2013, 08:57:14, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 08:54:19

radon1 wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:Greenpeace activists facing piracy charges in Russia
..
In the future, resource exploitation of the arctic will be a flashpoint between Russia and the West.


Pechora Sea is deep deep inside the Russian territorial waters, far behind Barents Sea where Russia and Norway have recently settled the delineation of the sea border. Look at the map. Surprising that their ship got that far. Given MSM's nonsense about "the international waters" this was probably a well-planned provocation. Testing ground how far they can get. More should follow.

And you are surprised why Putin is beefing up the military after quarter century of neglect.


6 feels bad for these Greenpeace show boating fools who give all environmental activists a bad name. If they had tried this same stunt in 1985 and managed to evade detection until that deep in USSR waters they would have been sunk and no one would have bothered looking for survivors in the icy waters because hypothermia kills in very short time spans. The Greenpeace yahoo's and the Sea Shepherd bunch around Antarctica are all about media attention, not about doing anything useful. When I was younger and more naive I supported Greenpeace both financially and with letter writing. Once I matured a few years I figured out they are just media attention hogs I dropped them like a hot potato.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby radon1 » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 09:08:55

Sixstrings wrote:It's not anyone else who is making Russia out to be a boogeyman, it's Putin's Russia that's doing these things one after another that has a lot of people concerned.


No, Six, this is MSM. This is called "securitization". Preparation for the Middle East type mayhem everywhere. Russia is actually a ghost country sliding to oblivion, and Putin is as pro-western as it gets. "Russia-the-bogeyman" is created by the MSM.

"Every Pole most now get of the off the fence and be counted as a patriot or a traitor."
Wow, sounds familiar.

Tanada wrote:...Greenpeace yahoo's and the Sea Shepherd bunch around Antarctica are all about media attention, not about doing anything useful.
Absolutely. Think they were well paid this time though, given the MSM's chorus singing "the international waters" in unison.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 09:35:33

Tanada - I would agree...foolish. But rather brave in this case. But maybe they didn't realize how many lives they were putting at risk...theirs and others. Or maybe they just didn't care which makes them more dangerous than foolish. As you say: very cold water is a tough venue. I've only worked once in such an environment and its lethality was hammered into us on a regular basis. To this day the only real phobia I have in getting dumped into frigid waters. A variety of fears but just that one phobia. As result I drink my scotch neat these days. LOL

But about joint military exercises: I mentioned a while ago that China and the US will hold joint naval exercises in the Pacific Basin next year. IMHO this makes a lot of sense given that in time I suspect both forces will be pushed into close proximity over protecting resource interests. Would make a great deal of sense to at least have some established com protocols to work with to avoid miscommunications. Wouldn’t want an itchy trigger finger not understanding what the folks he’s aiming at are trying to say.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby Timo » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 11:20:40

This all makes absolutely no sense. Witnessing these "war games" from the sidelines, and observing the nations involved makes it appear as though their ramping up for the launch of WWIII, but under pre-negotiated and understood terms of engagement. Yes, the world is getting FUBARed PDQ, so the mighty giants are making symbiotic preps so that future conflicts can be fought under agreed-upon arrangements. And this is relevant only to the nations that have actual control of their military. Throw in the ME and all of the religious and terrorist organizations in the world where such "practice" hasn't been planned out, all i can see in the near-term future is BOOM!
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby Ferretlover » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 11:57:43

Isn't that special? Russia and China are playing together!
"War games" are soooo much more civilized than False Alarms (which the N. Koreans have not yet learned), and give each team a chance to look over the other fellow's toys.
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby dissident » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 17:46:06

Ludicrous "concern" for some of-no-consequence, small scale (not WWIII) war games. The USA and its minions stage real wars, but that's OK. It's all in the name of goodness and only the USA and its minions are good. According to themselves, that is.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 18:54:19

The winners always write the history books and thus the good guys always win.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 20:09:11

dissident wrote:Ludicrous "concern" for some of-no-consequence, small scale (not WWIII) war games.


Lucicrous "concern?" I wonder how Polish people feel about it, I think when the US does war games they make up fictional scenarios with fictional countries with made up silly names, but the Russian games named "Poland." With a tactical nuke attack too. That's not supposed to be a message?

Doing some googling on this, I'm reminded that Russia has been doing war games and drills for years now all centered around Poland, and making the Poles nervous. I guess nothing much new here except for the ambphibious landing practice and tactical nukes.

You say at least Russia does war games and not war.. what about Georgia? Yeah yeah, I know, Russian "peacekeepers" were "sneak attacked" in ossetia and that became the pretext for invasion.

We'll see how long the war games remain games. How is the Polish team supposed to feel at your Olympics, you just did a wargame practicing invasion of their country. One day it won't be a game anymore and Russian nationalists may pull another Georgia on a neighbor. I'm sure pre WWII everyone shrugged off the German military buildup and their "war games for Poland invasion" too.

Don't want to get too far out on a limb here, Poland is NATO surely Russia knows it can't ever makes its games for real. I can foresee Russia testing again though, rolling across the border and occupying some small strip of land in the baltics or whatnot, a la Georgia, then sitting back and seeing what we do about that.

From what I'm gathering here, nationalism is big in Russia and Putin "is as pro-western as it gets" 8O so I suppose all the other nationalists are worse. Nazi Germans were nationalists too. And every dictator who's ever invaded a neighbor has always been a nationalist. Like Argentina with the Falklands -- it's just what they do, this is nationalism, otherwise domestically unpopular leaders shoring up support via militarism and aggressive talk, some little country next door that's somehow the enemy whether it's the sudetenalnd or the Falkland Islands or Kuwait or Poland.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 20:22:35

China is smarter, they just bought 5% of the entire landmass of Ukraine (for farming):

Chinese ink deal for huge swath of Ukrainian farmland

The government of China has agreed to a 50-year lease of Ukrainian farmland that will eventually make Ukraine the largest foreign producer of crops for Chinese companies, Radio Free Europe reports.

The initial deal for the lease of 100,000 hectares of land in the eastern Dnipropetrovsk region will eventually be expanded to 3 million hectares – 5 percent of the total area of Europe’s second largest country.
http://www.tol.org/client/article/23955-russian-war-games-in-the-baltics-chinese-deal-for-ukraine-farmland.html


Foolish mistake. Ukraine should be EXPORTING CROPS not selling their land. Once the Chinese are all settled in, at some point a future Ukrainian government or crisis will be a "threat" to Chinese interests, and voila pretext for invasion / regime change, and then Russian-Chinese wargames will make a lot of sense. It could happen, China all settled in and depending on that 3 million hectares of Ukrainian farmland, it somehow gets "threatened," then that's a pretext for their Russian ally to roll into Ukraine.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 20:48:05

Timo... war games are a way to AVOID launching into WWIII. It serves both as deterrent from adventurism, and a preventative of mistaken offensive action.

Do you want WW III started by some artillery officer freaking out and firing a surface to surface missile into Berlin without authorization?
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby radon1 » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 21:00:26

Sixstrings wrote:Foolish mistake. Ukraine should be EXPORTING CROPS not selling their land.


Absolutely. See now what the western-oriented "elites" do to their countries. Selling them wholesale in an appalling way. Can you imagine what would happen in the US had such deal been sealed there? The "elites" would go down the tube, presumably. But in Ukraine, they are not afraid, because their assets are in the west, their families are in the west, and their homes are in the west. And they will be protected by the west. Seems that the only way for the ordinary people to prevent ravaging their country is to somehow counter this western protection, and it appears that there is no way to do this in the circumstances other than try and build their security forces.

Ever thought why Russia is unable to give up Snowden to the US? Because there is no criminal exchange treaty between the US and Russia. Guess now why there is no exchange treaty between the US and Russia.

On a more general point. You, Six (epitomizing the US) have had 20+ years to lead the world to the bright future, absolutely unhindered. You miserably failed, as far as the world outside the US is concerned (though the US itself is flourishing). Where is this bright future that you promised to the world with your "democracy", "free markets" and "end of history"? Instead, wars, crises and conflicts abound. You are not even able to accept that the world is in crisis and explain this crisis and propose a way to tackle it. Why are you talking about "leadership" over the world now, when it is totally clear that you failed it and unable to lead.

See, it would be much easier to talk to you if you just said - I need to drive my six cars, gimme what I need or I will bomb you. Then it would be possible for others to take stock and see what can be done for you and somehow negotiate with you the way forward. This way you are kinda rational person.

Instead, you grab this crazy Polish stories that some nutcases suck from their fingers (just as they did with the Syrian chems), take the high moral ground and talk about "having to lead the world" (which, again, you consistently fail), because of your "indispensability and exceptionalism", and provoke yet another ugly conflict. This way you are just another irrational "exceptionalist" freak, a number of whom we have seen throughout the history, and as such you are simply dangerous, because it is impossible to talk to you in a rational manner. How is it possible to protect oneself from the dangerous people, other than building fences?
Last edited by radon1 on Fri 27 Sep 2013, 21:50:32, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 21:07:26

Sixstrings wrote:Greenpeace activists facing piracy charges in Russia, their ship the Arctic Sunrise seized by Russian forces in international waters, crew could be imprisoned for 15 years:


About time someone had the nads to stand up to those guys.
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Re: Russia, China Hold Large-Scale War Games

Unread postby sparky » Fri 27 Sep 2013, 21:43:29

.
On Greenpeace , they were in a restricted zone within the 200miles exclusive economic zone
only passage is authorized ,
the exclusion zone around an oil/gas platform is also safety related ,equipment has to be ADF certified ,
engines must have a anti spark exhaust Etc ,Etc .
All pretty humdrum really , Greenpeace mode of operation is to do a provocation as a max media stunt
usually they are let go as wayward undergraduate pranks
all the people on board are associate in a common illegal enterprise ,
there is a prima face case they knew of the trip purpose
they are not exactly innocent passer by
Russia take it's borders ( and its oil ) very ,very seriously .

P.S. Sixstring , I'm worried about your reading material ,your link sucked much
from which state are you from ?
http://kfor.com/2013/09/26/united-state ... 50-states/


On Military exercises , there is always some going on , Nato had some big one in Norway
the Zapat exercise was Russian /Belorussian , pretty routine really
a few Chinese People Army and NATO observers , but that's normal courtesy
a bit of boasting and a lot of taking photos checking what new stuff is around
then everybody has lunch
the joint Russian Chinese exercises are of two kind
-the central Asia ones with other countries of the "stans "as part of their Shanghai group is about Security
it's driven mostly by Russia , with China going along for the sake of their oil and gas supplies
the "Stans" are worried of the mess the U.S. will leave behind when it throw the towel in Afghanistan

the purely Russian Chinese exercises are Naval in the Far East ,
recently they had a massive one with plenty of ships , sailing close to Japan to give them a fright
The Naval stuff is more important for China , Russia go along .

As a matter of fact Russia had it's own land based exercise in the Far East , without China .
they are good friends but it's nice to pack some heat on your own .
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sparky
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