THE Iran Thread pt 4 (merged)

[Leanan]

In today's Washington Post:

Osama bin Laden's strategy is based on the conviction that the way to bring down a superpower is to weaken its economy. We "bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw [from Afghanistan] in defeat," bin Laden boasted in his October 2004 videotape. "We are continuing in the same policy to make America bleed profusely to the point of bankruptcy." His logic, feasibility aside, is simple: Bring the United States to a point where it can no longer afford to preserve both its military and economic dominance. Then, as the United States loses standing in the Middle East, the jihadists can gain ground and topple regimes they view as corrupt and illegitimate, while defeating other infidels who inhabit the land of Islam.

Striking oil, which jihadists call "the provision line and the feeding to the artery of the life of the crusader's nation," is relatively easy and effective. Terrorists no longer need to come to the United States to wreak havoc here. They can hit our energy supply near the source, where they enjoy strong support on the ground.

[DesertBear2]

Also from the article-

And what about an air attack? A suicide terrorist hijacking an airplane in Kuwait or Dubai in an attempt to crash it into one of the facilities would leave the Saudis very little time to respond.

Yup. And maybe the Iranians have developed plans of their own involving missile and commando strikes to shut down Abqaig and multiple other major oil facilities that supply the West.

[hoplite]

Come come, harming Saudi production will harm Europe and Asia far more than the US... (I'm not saying we wouldnt feel it, just wouldnt be as bad) look at the numbers- the US is NOT SA's lagest customer.

[0mar]

Come come, harming Saudi production will harm Europe and Asia far more than the US... (I'm not saying we wouldnt feel it, just wouldnt be as bad) look at the numbers- the US is NOT SA's lagest customer.

global market

[DesertBear2]

Come come, harming Saudi production will harm Europe and Asia far more than the US... (I'm not saying we wouldnt feel it, just wouldnt be as bad) look at the numbers- the US is NOT SA's lagest customer.

If Iran feels strongly that Bushco will launch a major attack on their country, they just may respond by attempting to set off the mother of all oil price spikes. It is common knowledge that the US economy is running mainly on hot air and inflated asset prices....and that a $150/barrel long-term oil shock will hobble the US economy and hamstring it's ME operations in a major way.

[UIUCstudent01]

Come come, harming Saudi production will harm Europe and Asia far more than the US... (I'm not saying we wouldnt feel it, just wouldnt be as bad) look at the numbers- the US is NOT SA's lagest customer.

global market

They'd be attacking everyone?

I guess everyone owes America for protecting the oil, eh?

[Corpsicle]

global market

They'd be attacking everyone?

Look up the word "fungible".

[Starvid]

What people are saying is that since oil is a fungible good traded on a global market it doesn't matter what oil installation you attack as the price will rise for everyone.

If Abqaiq in Saudia Arabia is blown up Europe needs to look for oil in other places, like Venezuela, Indonesia and Africa. This will increase the price of oil from those places and everyone who buy from them will have to pay more.

[FairMaiden]

I knew there were going to be uses for keeping BL on the loose...he represents fear and vulnerablity that the US can wave over everyone's heads anytime things like wars are questioned. They'll find some way to blame "an energy Pearl Harbor" on whomever is their next target. I can't believe ppl are still listening to it...

[Kickinthegob]

FairMaiden - the ppl listening to it are Americans and they have been bombarded by the Bush Admin propaganda machine, they are still in shock from the 9/11 Pearl Harbour and will accept anything at face value now. US journalists are already in the crosshairs...
The awkwardly named law

The awkwardly named law -- the Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 -- expands the FBI's ability to obtain records through secret court orders. The law also gives government investigators greater authority to track e-mail and telephone communications and to eavesdrop on those conversations.

Although aimed at trapping terrorists, those provisions of the law could ensnare journalists and compromise their ability to report on the war on terrorism...

It was never a priority to capture BL for the reasons you mention, in fact...
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - GW Bush, 3/13/02
It is way beyond hope at this point IMO, Americans are going to get another Pearl Harbour (Bush support at an all time low right now) and the media is getting strong armed into preparing them for it and guess who is going to be behind it - BL of course, with some type of Iranian twist no doubt. I will never underestimate the power of propaganda again after witnessing Americas unquestioning acceptance of 9/11 and the BL story.

[DesertBear2]

I will never underestimate the power of propaganda again after witnessing Americas unquestioning acceptance of 9/11 and the BL story.

We are being heavily propagandized by an irresponsible administration that is determined to launch continuing military adventures. The constant drumbeat about the "Iran threat" appears to be swaying the majority of Americans. Maybe we should prepare our coastline defenses to repel the Iranian invasion fleet???

It appears that the US (and the world) are entering another period of mass insanity.

[UIUCstudent01]

What people are saying is that since oil is a fungible good traded on a global market it doesn't matter what oil installation you attack as the price will rise for everyone.

If Abqaiq in Saudia Arabia is blown up Europe needs to look for oil in other places, like Venezuela, Indonesia and Africa. This will increase the price of oil from those places and everyone who buy from them will have to pay more.

I've just grown more cynical...

I used to think that since the price would increase that the supposed goal of attacking oil infrastructure would be spread to all countires.

But, now I'm thinking that the U.S. will be fine and other countries (Poorer countries - Zimbabwe, et al.) would actually feel the brunt of it. That's what fungible means.

[MacG]

I knew there were going to be uses for keeping BL on the loose...he represents fear and vulnerablity that the US can wave over everyone's heads anytime things like wars are questioned. They'll find some way to blame "an energy Pearl Harbor" on whomever is their next target. I can't believe ppl are still listening to it...

Pretty much my thinking. I see this as a way to morph the "war on terror" to a outspoken and direct war over oil.

[mekrob]

What people are saying is that since oil is a fungible good traded on a global market it doesn't matter what oil installation you attack as the price will rise for everyone.

If Abqaiq in Saudia Arabia is blown up Europe needs to look for oil in other places, like Venezuela, Indonesia and Africa. This will increase the price of oil from those places and everyone who buy from them will have to pay more.

I've just grown more cynical...

I used to think that since the price would increase that the supposed goal of attacking oil infrastructure would be spread to all countires.

But, now I'm thinking that the U.S. will be fine and other countries (Poorer countries - Zimbabwe, et al.) would actually feel the brunt of it. That's what fungible means.

Well they would feel the brunt, the poorer nations would have to since there'd be less oil. The price would skyrocket and their invitation to the party would be cancelled. That's what has to happen to prevent 'shortages' and 'oil lines'. I'm not saying we wouldn't feel it in the US. The poor would definately feel it and would also spread up to the middle class. With the housing bubble about to collapse and rising interest rates, it's doubtful many of them can continue to life with high and/or increasing fuel prices. Rich people...you know how they'll get by.

[clifman]

I will never underestimate the power of propaganda again after witnessing Americas unquestioning acceptance of 9/11 and the BL story.

We are being heavily propagandized by an irresponsible administration that is determined to launch continuing military adventures. The constant drumbeat about the "Iran threat" appears to be swaying the majority of Americans. Maybe we should prepare our coastline defenses to repel the Iranian invasion fleet???

It appears that the US (and the world) are entering another period of mass insanity.

Entering...? While I happen to think that our entire culture of consumption based on infinite growth on a finite planet is mad in and of itself, I agree with Kickin... we achieved a higher plane (greater depth?) of self-delusion on 9/11. Now, the accelerator is mashed to the floor, our rigid arms are locked on the steering wheel, our eyes are closed and the cliff is dead ahead.

[DesertBear2]

Now, the accelerator is mashed to the floor, our rigid arms are locked on the steering wheel, our eyes are closed and the cliff is dead ahead.

Well said....but I would guess that we haven't seen anything yet in terms of mass insanity.

When the really big oil shocks start to roll in like waves on the ocean, the spoiled temperamental US consumers will go berserk. And the GOP politicians will be prepared to take any political or military risk to achieve even the slightest positive economic growth.

[mos6507]

Do we even need to go to war with them? Can't we just sit back?

Iran Sinking as Groundwater Resources Disappear
By Kate Ravilious
for National Geographic News
September 22, 2008

Iran's insatiable demand for water, which is being drawn out of aquifers far faster than it can be replenished, is causing large chunks of farmland to sink and buildings to crack, according to a new study.

I just hope our oil there doesn't fall down a hole too.

If you have energy, and a coastline, you can have water. This would be one valid cause for nuclear power plants, to drive desalinization plants. Of course, a civilian nuclear program and a military program are not mutually exclusive.

[vtsnowedin]

We should start shipping them potable water by the supertanker load. Sell it to them for say $10 per barrel. The water to oil ratio will become the new world monetary standard and the dollar will get pegged to it as well as all other world currencies.

[3rensho]

I watched it for a bit but he mentioned God more often than a sleazy televangelist so I lost interest and turned the TV off.

Agreed, I almost turned it off too until he actually started talking about global issues not involving religion directly.

Also, If I'm not mistaken, I just heard Wolf Blitzer quoting Ahmadinejad as saying something like, "There are no gays in Iran".

Wolf is a Zionist who will do everything he can to make Ahmadinejad look as crazy as possible.

Ahmadinejad said this at Columbia University when asked about homosexuals in Iran. http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=4_3RUwAJ_MI

[Ming]

That video was clearly manipulated by Zionists, to make that fine gentleman look like a criminal fool.

Dont buy that dirty Zionist propaganda!

Go, Cashmere!