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Great Lakes Nation: Part I

For discussions of events and conditions not necessarily related to Peak Oil.

Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby Kristen » Mon 05 Apr 2010, 15:02:11

Suceeding by Seceding

For the last few years we’ve watched our neighbors, friends, and loved ones undergo bankruptcy, joblessness, and homelessness silently praying for the almighty market to save us from the suffering caused by such excess. Meanwhile the media circus has been throwing the results of the economic crisis, while not defining its cause; call it fractional reserve banking.

Minnesota, our homeland has been infected with this disease like the rest of the fifty states and the only way she can be cured is to leave the United States. Our financial system was built on the theory of infinite growth and for that simple fact; no mechanism to make it smaller exists. However systems that are compact/smaller are more fail-safe. And the latter often become wobbly and fumble, like what we are witnessing now. One should not expect anything to ever return to the year 2003 numbers, or quality of living, but the United States as a whole is bound to get worse. She wouldn’t survive on her own, but if the rest of her Great Lake sisters and brothers, with the help of Iowa and the Dakotas joined her, well a better union would be hatched indeed.

The Great Lakes account for 22 percent of freshwater in the world, enough to cover all of the states on the mainland with 10 feet of water. Two thirds of freshwater is frozen in glaciers making the great lakes a large 70 percent of surface freshwater. Keeping this in mind, we could use this important commodity to back up a new currency, called Aquana. Historically, the dollar was really a receipt of sorts redeemable of gold. The citizenry traded these receipts instead of the actual physical gold. The same would be of fresh water. The AQ could be redeemable for 16 fluid ounces of freshwater. The price of bottled water is around the 1.09 – 1.19 range, making it more valuable. (In theory of course, I understand the price of shipping is included in that last example)

We are also the breadbaskets of the world, accounting for a large majority of grain exports because of our rich soil and favorable climate. This gives the Great Lake Nation an advantage because fresh water and food are essential to life, and with their export comes imports to make up for fossil fuels and other mineral deposits we are lacking in the region.

Trade and economic policy are already considered at a bi-national level since the formation of the Great Lakes Commission in 1955. The commission provides developmental policy and advocacy on issues of regional concern. The GLC also has created communication and research services such as the Great Lake Information Network. The GLIN is used a support tool for those who create and implement public policy of the region. The GLIN contains an informative census about the populace that is available on their website. It also is interesting to note that according to the Brookings Institution, if it stood alone as a country, the Great Lakes economy would be the second-largest economic unit on earth (with a $4.2-trillion gross regional product), second only to the United States economy as a whole. The M-W (Minnesota-Wisconsin) Price is used to determine the price of Grade B milk.

Besides Trade, the Great Lake states already have had several pacts/treaties in order to benefit each other. For example, as a citizen of Minnesota, one could have gone to Wisconsin and not pay out of state fees. The same applied to Iowa and the Dakotas until January 1st, 2010. Minnesota has a fuel tax licensing reciprocity agreement with Iowa and Wisconsin, which replaces fuel tax licensing requirements. There also is a income tax reciprocity treaty, in which Minnesota ended in 2009, across several of the Great Lake states. Surely if such a conjunction occurred as the one proposed, MN could renew this accord.

I realize Minnesota succeeding from the union is extreme, and highly improbable. However even after the huge majority the democrats have in the government, which we the people voted for, policies they promised to construe have yet to see the light of day. Also the government has overgrown itself, and breaking off into regions and becoming smaller may be more efficient. This plan would be nonviolent of course, with mediating and bargaining on both sides. Canada is already a member of the Great Lakes Commission and has signed separate agreements with all of the 11 States.

Coming up next: An outline of the GLN governing body.

(please don't be offended, just trying to look at things in different angles)
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby AAA » Mon 05 Apr 2010, 15:21:16

Sounds like a Texas copy-cat.

I'm pretty sure this is a waste of time. Texas has been trying for 150 years.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby Cloud9 » Mon 05 Apr 2010, 16:34:08

Go for it. Mr. Obama painted himself as a Lincoln. It might be interesting to see how that works out. Then again, you might want to drive that stretch of road between Atlanta and Savana before you pull that trigger.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby dinopello » Mon 05 Apr 2010, 17:18:05

The US may well have to entertain offers and sell off parts of the country. Minnesotans should be allowed to bid on their own turf or partner with the Canadians, Russians, Chinese or whoever else might together be able to come up with a reasonable compensation. I'd hate to see Minnesota go since all the people I've personally met from there are really nice.

I think we paid about 15 million bucks for it along with the Louisiana purchase back in 1803, but there have been quite a lot of improvements made since then and a lot of resources have grown in value (like water) so I'm guessing the price is going to be pretty steep.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby timmac » Mon 05 Apr 2010, 17:43:13

Hey when you get that Great Lakes Nation formed how about a water pipe line sent our way [Vegas], we will will give you Minnesotans all the free lap dances for exchange of water.. :lol:
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby Kristen » Mon 05 Apr 2010, 17:53:51

I'm not so sure about giving water to Nevada, although worse case scenerio of course! Las Vegas alone would empty Lake Superior in a few months.

If this were to happen, the United States would still be allied with the GNL, however I personally would press for a stance of complete Neutrality regarding wars. Switzerland has managed.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby americandream » Mon 05 Apr 2010, 19:33:19

Not going to happen. The global elite pay a huge price to ensure that asset haven USS United States is and continues to remain seaworthy, as a refuge of last resort in a world of unreliable opportunities, and I DON'T think that they are about to let a bunch of wooly headed sentimentalists part them from their bank and it's impressive arsenal of high tech weaponry.

Kristen wrote:Suceeding by Seceding

For the last few years we’ve watched our neighbors, friends, and loved ones undergo bankruptcy, joblessness, and homelessness silently praying for the almighty market to save us from the suffering caused by such excess. Meanwhile the media circus has been throwing the results of the economic crisis, while not defining its cause; call it fractional reserve banking.

Minnesota, our homeland has been infected with this disease like the rest of the fifty states and the only way she can be cured is to leave the United States. Our financial system was built on the theory of infinite growth and for that simple fact; no mechanism to make it smaller exists. However systems that are compact/smaller are more fail-safe. And the latter often become wobbly and fumble, like what we are witnessing now. One should not expect anything to ever return to the year 2003 numbers, or quality of living, but the United States as a whole is bound to get worse. She wouldn’t survive on her own, but if the rest of her Great Lake sisters and brothers, with the help of Iowa and the Dakotas joined her, well a better union would be hatched indeed.

The Great Lakes account for 22 percent of freshwater in the world, enough to cover all of the states on the mainland with 10 feet of water. Two thirds of freshwater is frozen in glaciers making the great lakes a large 70 percent of surface freshwater. Keeping this in mind, we could use this important commodity to back up a new currency, called Aquana. Historically, the dollar was really a receipt of sorts redeemable of gold. The citizenry traded these receipts instead of the actual physical gold. The same would be of fresh water. The AQ could be redeemable for 16 fluid ounces of freshwater. The price of bottled water is around the 1.09 – 1.19 range, making it more valuable. (In theory of course, I understand the price of shipping is included in that last example)

We are also the breadbaskets of the world, accounting for a large majority of grain exports because of our rich soil and favorable climate. This gives the Great Lake Nation an advantage because fresh water and food are essential to life, and with their export comes imports to make up for fossil fuels and other mineral deposits we are lacking in the region.

Trade and economic policy are already considered at a bi-national level since the formation of the Great Lakes Commission in 1955. The commission provides developmental policy and advocacy on issues of regional concern. The GLC also has created communication and research services such as the Great Lake Information Network. The GLIN is used a support tool for those who create and implement public policy of the region. The GLIN contains an informative census about the populace that is available on their website. It also is interesting to note that according to the Brookings Institution, if it stood alone as a country, the Great Lakes economy would be the second-largest economic unit on earth (with a $4.2-trillion gross regional product), second only to the United States economy as a whole. The M-W (Minnesota-Wisconsin) Price is used to determine the price of Grade B milk.

Besides Trade, the Great Lake states already have had several pacts/treaties in order to benefit each other. For example, as a citizen of Minnesota, one could have gone to Wisconsin and not pay out of state fees. The same applied to Iowa and the Dakotas until January 1st, 2010. Minnesota has a fuel tax licensing reciprocity agreement with Iowa and Wisconsin, which replaces fuel tax licensing requirements. There also is a income tax reciprocity treaty, in which Minnesota ended in 2009, across several of the Great Lake states. Surely if such a conjunction occurred as the one proposed, MN could renew this accord.

I realize Minnesota succeeding from the union is extreme, and highly improbable. However even after the huge majority the democrats have in the government, which we the people voted for, policies they promised to construe have yet to see the light of day. Also the government has overgrown itself, and breaking off into regions and becoming smaller may be more efficient. This plan would be nonviolent of course, with mediating and bargaining on both sides. Canada is already a member of the Great Lakes Commission and has signed separate agreements with all of the 11 States.

Coming up next: An outline of the GLN governing body.

(please don't be offended, just trying to look at things in different angles)
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby RdSnt » Mon 05 Apr 2010, 20:19:40

You are more than welcome to become provinces of Canada.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby Loki » Mon 05 Apr 2010, 21:06:58

RdSnt wrote:You are more than welcome to become provinces of Canada.

Canada is more likely to break up than the US. If that happens, then it's possible some Americans may consider seceding.

Kristen, I've never heard of anyone calling for the "Great Lakes Nation" to secede. Is this your idea? I've entertained the idea for the Pac NW ("Cascadia") but I think it highly unlikely. Texas would be first, probably, but only if the US fedgov failed entirely.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby efarmer » Tue 06 Apr 2010, 08:56:29

Texas won't secede, it would leave them in the position of having to blame
all of their problems on their Mexican heritage, and it would make our invasion
of Mexico to obtain them look like a cheap land grab.

Great Lakes Nation? Perhaps, but I would not want my son or daughter
to march North and face the Swedes and Germans in the Great Cheese
Wars that would surely erupt. Give us cheddar or give us death.

I think we will probably hang together in spite of challenges, but the thought
of Cuba annexing the District of Columbia does strike me as a sweet deal
made in heaven every once in awhile... Washington would enjoy truly
cheap health care, and Cuba would move out of a family dynasty leadership
pattern to a smorgasbord of strange leadership creatures with exotic sounding
names and who are generous with money.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby WildRose » Tue 06 Apr 2010, 13:15:38

RdSnt wrote:You are more than welcome to become provinces of Canada.


:) That's right.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby Kristen » Tue 06 Apr 2010, 13:45:39

I did sort of imagine it up, but it's taken me a year to write the argument for it. With water scarcity and everything, the midwest could use their scarce essential of life to obtain oil as it also becomes scarce.

As far as Canada goes, they are actually members of the Great Lake Commision and have an equal say in any policy regarding use of the great lakes. I would be all about joining Canada if they promised to protect us. Remember i'm trying to go a nonviolent route here. Ghandi succeeded right?
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby AAA » Tue 06 Apr 2010, 13:53:01

Kristen wrote:I did sort of imagine it up, but it's taken me a year to write the argument for it.


A year????

Not to be mean but I hope you are doing other things that are actually productive and in preparation for a post-peak world.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby Timo » Tue 06 Apr 2010, 16:28:07

Perhaps the best thing for all states is to collectively renounce our independence and accept Her Majesty as our Queen. Got a budget problem? Nah! It's not our problem. It's up to the Brits to fix and make us all better. Constitution? Well, yeah, we've got one, but no one has ever written it down. We just let the Lords shout at each other to figure out what it really says. And just for the record, this would make it much easier for all Americans to emmigrate to Austrialia, New Zealand, South Africa, and even the Fauklands! Canada, too! But, i don't really expect anyone would want to. Canada??? That's some Scandinavian Island, isn't it? Thanks, but no thanks.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby Kristen » Fri 09 Apr 2010, 13:06:50

AAA wrote:
Kristen wrote:I did sort of imagine it up, but it's taken me a year to write the argument for it.


A year????

Not to be mean but I hope you are doing other things that are actually productive and in preparation for a post-peak world.


Well not literally, besides scholarly work isn't a waste of time, and I have the capacity to daydream things up while preparing for such catastrophes. I recently moved into a lake house, but because it is so shaded, vegetables won't grow. I have a huge deck that extends around the whole house, perhaps I could grow them in pots?
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby AAA » Fri 09 Apr 2010, 13:13:11

Kristen wrote:
AAA wrote:
Kristen wrote:I did sort of imagine it up, but it's taken me a year to write the argument for it.


A year????

Not to be mean but I hope you are doing other things that are actually productive and in preparation for a post-peak world.


Well not literally,...


Ok that clarifies things. I live in Los Angeles and here people will literally spend years writing movie scripts or books and don't focus on anything else.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby bshirt » Fri 09 Apr 2010, 18:47:51

Actually, I think it's a good idea. The eastern Dakota's have endless fresh water too. We grow a lot of food and have fresh water. That's not a bad combination. Even better, that region doesn't have massive congestion of people stacked on top of each other.

The big drawback I see is.....Minnesota. Thanks to the twin cites parasitic huge vote numbers, they'll just continue to "vote" for their handouts endlessly.

I still think it's a good idea but only if "mob rule" democracy is not included. Maybe let the residents of Minneapolis/St Paul relocate to Ted Kennedy's Taxachusetts and we could work something out....
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 16:11:43

Kristen wrote:I recently moved into a lake house, but because it is so shaded, vegetables won't grow.



There are a lot of edible plants that will grow in the shade. You might also consider taking out one or two trees if the shade is too dense. Then you would have some firewood! :)
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby pablonite » Wed 14 Apr 2010, 10:54:31

Image
Why is this man reading globalist mumbo jumbo?

Federal governments all over the world are loaded with this particular kind of parasite. The revolving doors between multinationals and top federal jobs in America and most first world nations has gone far beyond the obvious.

I don't think secession is possible at this point since regional economies are completely under the control of a federal loan shark - the Federal Reserve. This loan shark is in turn under the control of the international bankers and the BIS.

Most people fear the loan shark and their unpaid debts irregardless of how unfairly those debts were levied. They would rather just live on their knees and jump at a chance for hope and change, they will continue to play the game.

This is why globalists like Ron Paul are being manufactured. It's like playing a chess game against an opponent who can only look one move ahead. Too easy.

The future is a hybrid of capitalism and communism and is correctly termed communitarian-ism. Globalists have been using the Hegelian dialect to bring about world government for hundreds of years now. Because it is happening such a long period of time it is almost impossible for the layman to see.

Secession. Check.
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Re: Great Lakes Nation: Part I

Unread postby gollum » Wed 14 Apr 2010, 14:05:55

"Post American World" Maybe Obama sees the writing on the wall?
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