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[Food] Storage - General

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[Food] Storage - General

Unread postby TheSupplyGuy » Sat 15 May 2004, 13:47:17

This is a general thread about how to keep food - either home-processed or store-bought.
Pops

If you were going to store foods, what would you guys recommend. I mean you could use vitamin pills to help overcome any foods you couldn't store but isn't it true that canned foods don't go bad for decades? Just wondering, thanks.
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Unread postby Pops » Sat 15 May 2004, 14:23:35

Hi Guy. Glad to see someone interested in more than talk.

There are several ways to go. You can by the nitro packed freeze-dried bulk packs and kind of forget about them until you need them. Unfortunately you may find they are so different from your regular diet that people especially kids will actually not eat enough. Then there is the Mormon plan of the basic 4; hard red wheat, powdered milk, sugar & salt. Sort of like an Ex-Lax diet

Personally we store what we eat, rotating old stuff with new. The benefit is that when times are hard you don’t want to have to learn how to cook something new, the benefit of little change in diet, and instead of spending a bunch of money on something you hope you’ll never use you actually save money. Since you don’t need to buy everything you need every 2 weeks you can buy what’s on sale or buy in bulk for a huge savings.

There are lots of resources out there with more experience than me, but I would be happy to help with specific questions. I see if I can find where I filed my shelf life list and post it.

The Mormons have a $5, $10 a week plan and lots of information: LDS

This is great: link

Also Frugal’s has a huge amount of info (strong political opinions however) Frugals
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Unread postby Pops » Sat 15 May 2004, 14:31:28

Although I should be working on the kitchen remodel (I hate drywall) I found a bunch of stuff I put together, including an Excel spreadsheet with amounts to store shelf life etc.

PM me your email and I’ll shoot it to ya.
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Unread postby Pops » Sat 15 May 2004, 16:13:32

I uploaded the files with help from our illustrious Admin to the downloads section.

The text file is over 90 pages for your reading pleasure and was compiled by AZGrammy from Frugals. It includes shelf life of foods, preservation methods, water storage & purification, 50 uses for vinegar and more.

Holy D Deyo made the food storage spreadsheet - I’m sorry Holly if you are out there, I can’t remember your link. It includes about 500 items, food and other, with suggested amounts to store, target amount, on hand amount, amt to purchase, when to rotate, min. shelf life, etc

They are here:
http://www.peakoil.com/downcat2.html
Last edited by Pops on Mon 19 Dec 2005, 09:50:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby smiley » Sat 15 May 2004, 18:01:28

Hi there,

It seems to me that you're preparing for the Apocalypse. While I think that Peakoil will have some very nasty consequences I don't really understand that.

What I'm wondering about; what is it that you are preparing for? A collapse of society or a war maybe? I would like to hear what you think that will happen and in which timescale.
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Unread postby Pops » Sat 15 May 2004, 19:04:59

Smiley, apocalypse comes in all flavors.

When I was a kid my folks were low wage working people who had grown up during the great depression, we didn’t have fancy cars or house but there was always food in the pantry – lots of food. My mom only shopped when there was a sale and would bring home cases of green beans or whatever at a time.

When I was a young father, I was a carpenter and could always rely on flush times as well as lean times, so I stocked up when I could because I had three kids and a wife to feed.

Now I have grown kids and just don’t feel comfortable without a big pantry. In fact there has been more than once that my kids have come “shopping” at Poppy’s during tough times at their house.

Aside from the fact that I save what I believe to be a large amount of money by buying in bulk, I save on gas and wear and tear on my Hummer, since I only go shopping once or twice a month.

Considering the supermarkets only keep 3 days worth of food on hand and many people don’t have much more at home, I am pretty sure even a slight infrastructure interruption would cause considerable problems.

Peak oil isn’t really a matter of stocking up on expendables (except maybe the kind that go bang) although stocking up on tools and skills, IMO, certainly is in order.
As far as the infamous crystal ball, it could hold anything from a big bang to lots of little whimpers to the Energy Fairy elected to president of the world. For us, we try to be prepared for as many things to happen as possible - including nothing.


Timeline: the current spike in gasoline, nat. gas and oil prices in the US (BTW, much of which is underreported by our friends in DC) could result in some nasty repercussions in our various economic bubbles. Beyond that, if the ASPO’s forecast is correct and the peak of all sources is ‘07,
look for big economic trouble within 5 years.

But of course that’s only my humble opinion.
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Unread postby rowante » Sun 16 May 2004, 00:45:00

I was reading somewhere that supermarkets and commerce in general in our first world societies work on fortnightly deliveries.

All it takes is a failure of one of those deliveries to make people start hoarding. Take a look at CJ Campbell's often used example of the UK in 2000. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/the_m ... 014236.stm

So we really rely on a very fragile structure of food delivery. It's easy to imagine the chaos that a couple of missed deliveries will make. It's also easy to see why the price of crude oil will effect the price of foodstuff on the shelf. Areas that are never affected by natural disasters will have no crisis plans...
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Precisely

Unread postby TheSupplyGuy » Sun 16 May 2004, 13:15:34

Wow. Pops, that's a lot of work. No I'm not exactly stocking up for a disaster unless it appears things will go that way, but merely to avoid exponentionally(sp?) higher food prices once the oil starts getting scarcer. Now however, if it looks like I might have to stock up for a major disaster, I can alway switch over to that. But I wanted foods that don't go bad for awhile, so I can stock up now, and they'll be there if I need them no matter what happens( for instance if I need them for something else down the line other than peak oil, like a snowstorm or something).
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Unread postby JR » Sun 16 May 2004, 14:56:12

Go for SPam. I just bought a can...expiration on the can...2007!



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Food

Unread postby Aaron » Sun 16 May 2004, 15:46:20

I think the most sustainable, long lasting kind of food, is the kind that is alive, until you eat it.

Keeps well, maintains freshness, and is simple to store.

The idea that any meaningful hording of perishables is probably a bad one. Most canned goods will last many years, but are bulky, heavy and not to portable.

Stock up on non-perishables as required, but in a severe depression, think harvesting meat & plants, rather than storing them. Hunting, fishing & gardening are time tested solutions to economic troubles.

So the skills and equipment needed to feed yourselves, is ultimately more important than any hording.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Unread postby Pops » Sun 16 May 2004, 16:52:28

No, it’s not a lot of work, unless you consider changing your lifestyle work. When it appears that disaster will strike, it is too late – others will see the same and you will simply be a part of the horde. If you don’t want to change your life, why worry about the "peak" or the future in any way?

“Deal with the future, or the future will deal with you.”

But allow me to repeat myself:
“Peak oil isn’t really a matter of stocking up on expendables (except maybe the kind that go bang) although stocking up on tools and skills, in my opinion, certainly is in order."
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My own preparations

Unread postby Aaron » Tue 18 May 2004, 16:16:31

I realized that almost anything is possible and that disaster preparation makes sense on Sept the 12th 2001.

Since I don't have the means to afford a luxury stronghold off the grid, I have been stocking up on things I know I would need in a real disaster situation. Not that I anticipated anything specific, but the Pops, "prepare for the worst & expect the best" thing.

Primary option

I have met with and discussed possible future scenarios with friends who have the capacity to understand these issues, & to explore response options if the need should arise. So the first line of defense in case of disaster is a community of long-time friends who can help one another in a crisis. We hope this amounts to nothing more than financial & business assistance during economic crisis, but also includes plans to relocate to an agreed upon ranch in extreme circumstances.

Secondary options

Being from a tradition which includes hunting, fishing & camping etc. it's not much of a stretch to outfit for a disaster. Dried foods, renewable weapons, medicines (including powerful antibiotics etc...), and professional quality gear seemed a more reasonable approach than a defend-able fortress of solitude. At this point, we could just drive off into the wilderness and drop off the grid completely. I would not want to live that way forever, but it's comforting to know we could simply disappear if needed.

We live on the Texas gulf coast, so I also purchased a small (22') sailboat, which I am currently stocking with the proper supplies for a medium voyage. I reasoned that if for some reason it was unsafe to exit the populated area by car, we could just sail away. This was also a natural choice being a sailer already.

The beauty of these alternatives is we already do them today, so it's really just an extension of something we already enjoy. If peak theory comes to nothing, then fine. But in a worst case scenario, it's nice to know I can put dinner on the table, without the grocery store.

Matter of fact, tonight is red fish night... right from nature... to me.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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how true

Unread postby TheSupplyGuy » Wed 19 May 2004, 08:16:05

Excellent point Aaron. Thanks again for the chart, Pops.
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Unread postby JLK » Mon 24 May 2004, 20:12:46

I read somewhere that the only two foods that can last forever are wheat and honey. Apparently, they have found edible samples of both in tombs that are thousands of years old.

I'm not sure how helpful that was, but I thought it was interesting at the time I read it.
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Unread postby Whitecrab » Tue 25 May 2004, 22:56:56

I thought that honey aged and turned into a sugary, dry form over time? How does one store it to "last forever," and what form does it take?
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Unread postby Pops » Tue 25 May 2004, 23:22:32

Simply heat "sugared" honey and it flows.
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Unread postby Steve » Thu 17 Jun 2004, 11:47:01

Whitecrab wrote:I thought that honey aged and turned into a sugary, dry form over time? How does one store it to "last forever," and what form does it take?


Actually, honey does keep nearly forever, and without refrigeration too. While it does have a tendency to crystallize, if you put it in some kind of double boiler (like a glass bottle of honey in a pan of water) and heat it up, it returns to its original clear, pourable state. Of course, plain old sugar keeps as long and does not need to be rejuvenated if you keep it dry. Someone will probably make the argument that honey is more healthy though.
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Unread postby Guest » Fri 18 Jun 2004, 04:36:57

Now I have grown kids and just don’t feel comfortable without a big pantry. In fact there has been more than once that my kids have come “shopping” at Poppy’s during tough times at their house


POPS FOR PREZ! Were gonna need a "Joseph" like figure to ease the transition.

Arron also has a very good point, eventualy no matter how good your stocks are, or how long they will keep, you WILL need to refresh your food supply. So learn to raise some food before any problems.

If you're into Self Defense get better at it. Pops is right about the Pb stocks and "launching pads" being a nice option.

Honey is very important, helps with allergies, is the BEST burn ointment, is antimacrobial, and has vitamins and trace pollens that are good for ya'. (esp. "queen bee" honey perscribed for elderly in Europe, ME, Asia). Makes a good beverage too (in teas and as MEAD).

In the Summer try fresh mint with honey tea, mmm delicioso'

Honey is Detremental to youngsters, that is its only caveat'.

Suger is also great for packing in wounds. No $hit. it draws away the infected fluids and allows the body to heal itself.

_ A concerned Virginian
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Unread postby Guest » Fri 18 Jun 2004, 04:43:01

oh, forgot to answer the question.

MATZOH.

Get it with NO fLAVORS added, this stuff is reported to last longer than lifeboat rations.

For best nutrition and taste try and get "Shmurah" (made with a less fine wheat, and watched over so no miosture would even get near the stuff) generally Shmurah is only available around Passover time. "Yehudah" brand is one of the better large manufacturers.

remember it's not a cracker, its slave bread. :D
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Unread postby Itch » Wed 30 Jun 2004, 14:49:33

It might be a good idea to stock up on bags of white rice. Since there is hardly and fats, like in brown rice, the process of degredation will be postponed, often by years. It may take a lot of water to make, and also may not be the best source of decent nutrition, but having plentiful food is a prerequisite to bizarre, disciplined diets, so when you're hungry, you'll eat whatever is available.
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