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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Fri 10 Nov 2017, 15:58:32
by vtsnowedin
pstarr wrote:Big Brother is a meany, but his Little Brother (kid's into slow-pitch softball) is such a dear. Wouldn't let anything happen to his mommy's Tesla.

I hope you are just kidding and have read or at least know of Orwell's classic 1984. If not you might lose your job at the Minitrue (Ministry of truth in old speak) and find yourself in room 101. 8O

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Fri 10 Nov 2017, 21:49:16
by AdamB
pstarr wrote:
asg70 wrote:
pstarr wrote:I know you know them :) They are your friends. Good friends! Happy Friends [smilie=5umbrella.gif]


Got a point or do you just want to be flagged?

How about this: no hands-free autonomous vehicle ever drove from San Francisco to Los Angeles. That makes your little friend a liar. Is that better for you? Is it better that I out and out call Adam a liar. Or am I allowed to have a little fun with him? Is that your f#cking call?


How about you...like...read...something on the topic before discovering that just as with oily topics, you don't know squat. This one is from 2 years ago. I spoke to the gentleman I referenced in April of 2016.

Now learn something, maybe you'll grow a new neuron or something and won't be such a shining example of an ignorant patsy.

https://www.wired.com/2015/01/rode-500- ... re-boring/

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Fri 10 Nov 2017, 21:54:35
by AdamB
pstarr wrote:I read and understand it, unlike the EV posers (none actually own an EV).


3 years old and still going strong.

Image

I'd offer to let you drive it, but it requires enough intellectual horsepower to push a button, turn that big wheelie thing, and use go and stop pedals. Plus I'd have to get the wife's permission, and she doesn't let many fully functional adults drive it, so you are REALLY far outta luck in that regard.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Fri 10 Nov 2017, 21:56:59
by AdamB
Plantagenet wrote:Self Driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas

self-driving-shuttle-crashes-in-las-vegas-hours-after-launch

The AI driving the shuttle probably got distracted by some pretty girls on the sidewalk.


Read the article. The human driver of the other vehicle was at fault. Score: Computers 1, Humans 0

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Fri 10 Nov 2017, 22:01:58
by AdamB
Revi wrote: We have owned a small electric vehicle for over 12 years now, and use it almost every day in the snow free months. It uses a tiny fraction of the energy of a regular car, and can get you around about a 15 mile radius. Image


The wife has been using a full sized electric to get around for 3 years or so now, and it uses a tiny fraction of the energy of a regular car, and can get you around a 20 mile radius. At 70mph on the interstate or 10mph around town. With ice cold A/C, or heat, and better yet if it gets rammed by a vehicle other than another small lightweight EV, its got 4000# of airbags, steel crumple zones, antilock brakes and traction control and heck fire it is so good you can drive it around in the winter months and 110F heat and everything!! Yours looks like it sacrifices quite a bit of safety there Revi. How many airbags you got on that thing?

Image

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Fri 10 Nov 2017, 22:04:13
by AdamB
GHung wrote:BTW: My first major was 'CS-Expert Systems", now generally referred to as "AI".


Are you any good at it? Awhile ago you claimed to be unemployed and poor in Appalachia?

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Sat 11 Nov 2017, 15:41:12
by asg70
pstarr wrote:No computer hardware or program known today that can pick out a face in a crowd


That's the difference between engineers and doomer luddites like you. Engineers roll up their sleeves and SOLVE PROBLEMS. Doomers assume all problems are HOPELESS. That's why we have the computers of today rather than them still being hand-built vacuum tube monstrosities. I mean, if doomers were in control since the start I wonder whether we'd even have invented the abacus! "This math, it's just too hard. Let's stick with eenie meenie on our fingers."

Image

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Sat 11 Nov 2017, 16:11:36
by GHung
AdamB wrote:
GHung wrote:BTW: My first major was 'CS-Expert Systems", now generally referred to as "AI".


Are you any good at it? Awhile ago you claimed to be unemployed and poor in Appalachia?


I'll only say that you and I have very, very different values, Adamn. And I was good at a lot of things. Still am. I know that accumulation of 'wealth' is a priority for most folks, but I walk a different path. And I'm not really unemployed, and never said that (I notice you read in a lot of things people never said). I just don't work for the man. Your government likely considers me "not employed and not looking for work". I call it flying under the radar.

One of us strives for some humility in their life and character, and that ain't you.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Sat 11 Nov 2017, 21:58:22
by Outcast_Searcher
GHung wrote:
AdamB wrote:
GHung wrote:BTW: My first major was 'CS-Expert Systems", now generally referred to as "AI".


Are you any good at it? Awhile ago you claimed to be unemployed and poor in Appalachia?


I'll only say that you and I have very, very different values, Adamn. And I was good at a lot of things. Still am. I know that accumulation of 'wealth' is a priority for most folks, but I walk a different path. And I'm not really unemployed, and never said that (I notice you read in a lot of things people never said). I just don't work for the man. Your government likely considers me "not employed and not looking for work". I call it flying under the radar.

One of us strives for some humility in their life and character, and that ain't you.

So apparently you're not reporting your income for tax purposes by "flying under the radar"?

Don't read the NYT -- their readers, via various comments on editorials would be VERY, VERY angry at you, as they are, currently blaming evil tax cheaters for the fact that taxes aren't magically curing all the US's problems.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Sat 11 Nov 2017, 22:20:49
by GHung
Outcast_Searcher wrote:
GHung wrote:
AdamB wrote:
GHung wrote:BTW: My first major was 'CS-Expert Systems", now generally referred to as "AI".


Are you any good at it? Awhile ago you claimed to be unemployed and poor in Appalachia?


I'll only say that you and I have very, very different values, Adamn. And I was good at a lot of things. Still am. I know that accumulation of 'wealth' is a priority for most folks, but I walk a different path. And I'm not really unemployed, and never said that (I notice you read in a lot of things people never said). I just don't work for the man. Your government likely considers me "not employed and not looking for work". I call it flying under the radar.

One of us strives for some humility in their life and character, and that ain't you.

So apparently you're not reporting your income for tax purposes by "flying under the radar"?

Don't read the NYT -- their readers, via various comments on editorials would be VERY, VERY angry at you, as they are, currently blaming evil tax cheaters for the fact that taxes aren't magically curing all the US's problems.


Wrong. I just try to avoid things that increase the velocity of money and create tax liability.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Sun 12 Nov 2017, 18:23:31
by AdamB
GHung wrote:
AdamB wrote:
GHung wrote:BTW: My first major was 'CS-Expert Systems", now generally referred to as "AI".


Are you any good at it? Awhile ago you claimed to be unemployed and poor in Appalachia?


I'll only say that you and I have very, very different values, Adamn.


Well, unlike some other things you have pointed at me, that is reasonably accurate.

GHung wrote: And I was good at a lot of things. Still am. I know that accumulation of 'wealth' is a priority for most folks, but I walk a different path.


I don't know anyone who has made a priority of acquiring wealth. You must hang out with a different class of folks in Appalachia than I was raised with. The folks I know are happy to eat, have a roof over their heads, most would like a good and steady job but most don't have one, just happy to get by might describe their way of thinking. My thinking was different of course, but it had nothing to do with wealth either. Getting out would describe it best I suppose.

GHung wrote: And I'm not really unemployed, and never said that (I notice you read in a lot of things people never said).


You said you were unemployed in 2008. You didn't seem to indicate in that post if you had remedied that situation or not. Good to hear that even with peak oil and pstarr claiming at various times that it was a depression, you were able to work your way out of it as did apparently many others, the unemployment rate being what it is today.

GHung wrote: I just don't work for the man. Your government likely considers me "not employed and not looking for work". I call it flying under the radar.


Nothing wrong with a cash and off the books type work. Until the government bans cash anyway. And it isn't my government any more than it is yours, more like it is the government we all live under, whether you like it or not.

GHung wrote:One of us strives for some humility in their life and character, and that ain't you.


You wouldn't know any more about the humility in my life than you do what I strive for or what my core values are, or how I grew up in conditions that aren't the same as the ones I live in today. You never asked, otherwise I would have explained some of them, instead you just assumed based on my enthusiasm for the EV solution to peak oil for most folks. And that enthusiasm is economic in nature, nothing more, the same guiding principles that most folks use, be they poor in Appalachia, or not.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Mon 13 Nov 2017, 00:20:15
by vtsnowedin
AdamB wrote:
I don't know anyone who has made a priority of acquiring wealth.

I know a lot of people who have made a priority of acquiring enough wealth to leave poverty behind them and never again fear having to do without. Some do get carried away with it and amass why more then they will ever need to the point of spending too much time making money and too little time with their families enjoying the happiness they can now afford.
Somehow I have managed to avoid such problems. :oops:

Growth in Electric Vehicles Won’t Dent Oil Demand Much

Unread postPosted: Tue 14 Nov 2017, 19:07:31
by AdamB


Amid an anticipated increase in electric vehicles during the next 20 years, the world's appetite for oil is still expected to wane just a bit, as demand for transportation including petrochemicals continues, the International Energy Agency said Tuesday. An estimated 50 million vehicles will be in operation by 2025 and 300 million by 2040, versus about 2 million currently, the IEA said. But that's expected to reduce global demand by just 2.5 million barrels a day, or roughly 2 percent, by then. The U.S. will be a major player in global oil and gas markets for years as the shale industry boom transforms into the largest supply increase ever, the agency said in its annual World Energy Outlook. The cycle will change the U.S. into a net exporter of fossil fuels, with growth in U.S. oil production hitting that accomplished by Saudi


Growth in Electric Vehicles Won’t Dent Oil Demand Much

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Sun 17 Dec 2017, 17:11:55
by kublikhan
The U.S. Postal Service has launched full-scale testing of a series of prototype delivery vans from which it plans to select its next mail truck. The order will be huge for the companies involved. The USPS will choose models from the prototypes to replace up to 180,000 mail trucks over the course of seven years, an estimated $6.3 billion of business. The post office's current fleet is aging. Of the 215,000 mail trucks in operation, 140,000 are at least two decades old. “Real-world” testing of the prototypes began last month. The postal service said the winner of the vehicle contract will be announced in early– 2018.

Five contenders are participating in the competition, which the USPS has named the Next Generation Delivery Vehicle, or NGDV, program. They include two team entries: VT Hackney/Workhorse Group and Karsan/Morgan Olson. The three additional companies are AM General, Oshkosh and Mahindra. Given the Trump administration's arguably protectionist rhetoric and preference for U.S. manufacturers, it's likely the agency might opt for a full American design, said Jeffrey Osborne, a Cowen & Co. automotive analyst. That would favor three of the contenders, AM General, Oshkosh and the Hackney entry, which is an electric vehicle that shares many components with the Workhorse W-15 electric pickup truck.

If the USPS selects an electric vehicle, it will become the largest electric vehicle fleet in the world, Osborne said. “It would be a pretty pronounced step, in terms of showing that electric vehicles are ready to hit prime time.”

The Contenders:
1. AM General - A recent prototype of the AM General mail truck was spotted using an internal combustion engine with start-stop technology for improved fuel efficiency.

2. Karsan/Morgan Olson - Karsan Otomotive has designed and built more than 277,000 gas and electric cars. For the next-generation mail truck, Karsan will provide the hybrid technology and Morgan Olson will manufacture the body.

3. Mahindra: - The truck uses a 2.5-liter engine from General Motors and may be available with a mild hybrid powertrain option.

4. Oshkosh - Oshkosh has a long history of contracts with the federal government. Since 2009, its defense arm has delivered more than 35,700 medium tactical trucks and trailers to the U.S. Army.

5. VT Hackney/Workhorse - The Workhorse chassis is already being used by FedEx Ground, USPS and DHL. Workhorse has a relationship with fleet management company Ryder System Inc., which placed an order for 2,500 of its W-15 electric pickup trucks. UPS also ordered more than 300 of its Range-Extended E-Gen Model step trucks. The Workhorse-VT Hackney all-electric prototype was seen delivering mail in Leesburg, Va. It has a small BMW gasoline engine that acts as a generator to extend the range of the truck.

What’s next
Postmaster General Megan Brennan told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform in a hearing on Feb. 7 that the agency may use a “bridge strategy” as it has in the past, which means incrementally replacing up to 12,000 vehicles at a time.

As the agency looks for its next truck, it's already thinking ahead. The USPS is also working with the University of Michigan on an autonomous mail delivery truck, which it hopes to introduce to select rural routes across the country by 2025.
The Trucks Competing to Be the Next USPS Delivery Vehicle, Third Prototype Spotted

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Sun 17 Dec 2017, 17:47:27
by vtsnowedin
kublikhan wrote:
The U.S. Postal Service has launched full-scale testing of a series of prototype delivery vans from which it plans to select its next mail truck. The order will be huge for the companies involved. The USPS will choose models from the prototypes to replace up to 180,000 mail trucks over the course of seven years, an estimated $6.3 billion of business. The post office's current fleet is aging. Of the 215,000 mail trucks in operation, 140,000 are at least two decades old. “Real-world” testing of the prototypes began last month. The postal service said the winner of the vehicle contract will be announced in early– 2018.

Five contenders are participating in the competition, which the USPS has named the Next Generation Delivery Vehicle, or NGDV, program. They include two team entries: VT Hackney/Workhorse Group and Karsan/Morgan Olson. The three additional companies are AM General, Oshkosh and Mahindra. Given the Trump administration's arguably protectionist rhetoric and preference for U.S. manufacturers, it's likely the agency might opt for a full American design, said Jeffrey Osborne, a Cowen & Co. automotive analyst. That would favor three of the contenders, AM General, Oshkosh and the Hackney entry, which is an electric vehicle that shares many components with the Workhorse W-15 electric pickup truck.

If the USPS selects an electric vehicle, it will become the largest electric vehicle fleet in the world, Osborne said. “It would be a pretty pronounced step, in terms of showing that electric vehicles are ready to hit prime time.”

The Contenders:
1. AM General - A recent prototype of the AM General mail truck was spotted using an internal combustion engine with start-stop technology for improved fuel efficiency.

2. Karsan/Morgan Olson - Karsan Otomotive has designed and built more than 277,000 gas and electric cars. For the next-generation mail truck, Karsan will provide the hybrid technology and Morgan Olson will manufacture the body.

3. Mahindra: - The truck uses a 2.5-liter engine from General Motors and may be available with a mild hybrid powertrain option.

4. Oshkosh - Oshkosh has a long history of contracts with the federal government. Since 2009, its defense arm has delivered more than 35,700 medium tactical trucks and trailers to the U.S. Army.

5. VT Hackney/Workhorse - The Workhorse chassis is already being used by FedEx Ground, USPS and DHL. Workhorse has a relationship with fleet management company Ryder System Inc., which placed an order for 2,500 of its W-15 electric pickup trucks. UPS also ordered more than 300 of its Range-Extended E-Gen Model step trucks. The Workhorse-VT Hackney all-electric prototype was seen delivering mail in Leesburg, Va. It has a small BMW gasoline engine that acts as a generator to extend the range of the truck.

What’s next
Postmaster General Megan Brennan told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform in a hearing on Feb. 7 that the agency may use a “bridge strategy” as it has in the past, which means incrementally replacing up to 12,000 vehicles at a time.

As the agency looks for its next truck, it's already thinking ahead. The USPS is also working with the University of Michigan on an autonomous mail delivery truck, which it hopes to introduce to select rural routes across the country by 2025.
The Trucks Competing to Be the Next USPS Delivery Vehicle, Third Prototype Spotted

Having 140,000 vehicles past their expiration date shows very poor fleet management has been practiced. They will probably have to buy closer to 30,000 new ones a year to keep all routes serviced. Can you imagine the amount of money being wasted each year keeping those worn out trucks on the road.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Sun 17 Dec 2017, 18:01:26
by kublikhan
vtsnowedin wrote:Having 140,000 vehicles past their expiration date shows very poor fleet management has been practiced. They will probably have to buy closer to 30,000 new ones a year to keep all routes serviced. Can you imagine the amount of money being wasted each year keeping those worn out trucks on the road.
These are not ordinary vehicles. They were specifically designed long lasting vehicles(LLVs). They were designed to operate for up to 30 years.

The Grumman LLV was specifically designed for the United States Postal Service with Grumman winning the contract for production. The main design points of the vehicle in contract competition were serviceability, handling in confined areas, and overall economical operation. As its name suggests, the Grumman LLV is easily capable of a long life. The original design lifespan of the Grumman LLV specified by the U.S. Postal Service was 24 years, but in 2009 this was extended to thirty years.

Because the United States Postal Service owns over 100,000 Grumman LLVs, of which the oldest are reaching the end of their lifespan, the USPS has been looking into replacing or retrofitting the LLVs. On September 22, 2016, the United States Postal Service awarded the NGDV Prototype Contract to six selected suppliers: AM General, Karsan, Mahindra, Oshkosh, Utilimaster, and VT Hackney. Half of the prototypes will feature hybrid and new technologies, including alternative fuel capabilities. The prototypes will represent a variety of vehicle sizes and drive configurations, in addition to advanced powertrains and a range of hybrid technologies.
Grumman LLV

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Sun 17 Dec 2017, 18:45:02
by Subjectivist
I don’t think this is nearly as crucial as they make it sound, there is no particular reason cars can’t substitute aluminum wire for copper which gives lighter weight for amount of current flow.

Demand for copper globally is set to jump 22 percent in as soon as five years on increasing usage of the metal in electric vehicles, solar and wind power sectors, according to Indian billionaire Kumar Mangalam Birla’s Hindalco Industries Ltd.

Consumption is seen rising to 28 million metric tons in the next five to seven years from about 23 million tons now, J.C. Laddha, head of the Indian company’s copper unit, said in New Delhi at an industry conference. Electric vehicles alone will boost global copper demand by 1.2 million tons, he said.

India is also expected to benefit from the electric-vehicle push as Prime Minister Narendra Modi seeks to turn all passenger car sales electric by 2030, Laddha said. “But even without the demand from electric vehicles, demand should rise to 1.8 million tons to 2 million tons,” he said.

Copper has rallied more than 20 percent this year along with other industrial metals on prediction of tighter supplies and increasing global economic growth amid new sources of demand. Top producer Codelco forecasts that prices could test record highs above $10,000 a metric ton as the supply-demand balance shifts to substantial deficits from 2018.

India’s consumption is expected to grow by as much as 10 percent from 700,000 tons a year now, Laddha said. India has the potential to boost consumption of everything from copper to iron ore as its economy expands over the next two decades and more people flock to its cities, according to projections from the Australian government that examine whether the country will emulate China.

The South Asian nation will auction more copper mines to meet demand as the reliance mostly on foreign supplies makes the local industry “vulnerable,” Mines Secretary Arun Kumar said at the same industry event.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ctric-cars

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Mon 18 Dec 2017, 17:04:50
by Plantagenet
The new R tax bill retains the $7500 tax credit for buying an EV.

US-Tax-Bill-Keeps-EV-Incentives

Thats good news for the EV industry.

Cheers!

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Mon 18 Dec 2017, 21:59:27
by Plantagenet
Boeing plans amazing EV airplane

Boeing-teases-plane-change-future-air-power

How long will be until Elon Musk announces that Tesla will be manufacturing an even bigger and better EV airplane then Boeing? :lol: :lol:

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Unread postPosted: Tue 19 Dec 2017, 04:53:59
by Outcast_Searcher
Subjectivist wrote:I don’t think this is nearly as crucial as they make it sound, there is no particular reason cars can’t substitute aluminum wire for copper which gives lighter weight for amount of current flow.

I did a little reading.

Aluminum is more brittle than copper. It's not as strong or flexible in the same size wire. It's generally more susceptible to corrosion if exposed.

You're right that aluminum is significantly lighter than copper.

So, at this point, copper seems to be preferred for motors and wires where more stress may occur (such as telecommunications). For cars, with weather, vibration, moisture, etc., it sounds to me like there's a reason copper is chosen.

For large buildings where cost may be a big issue over time and thick wires are a good application for aluminum, aluminum is often preferable.

Newer alloys might help make aluminum substitution better. It sounds to me like this is a complex subject (I'm certainly no expert), but it also sounds like just assuming there is no good reason copper is preferred for cars is likely way overstating the case.

(Of course, if copper gets expensive ENOUGH compared to substitutes like aluminum, then doing what it takes to make substitution viable, perhaps with better alloys, becomes much more important, and more effort would take place to make that happen).

http://www.machinedesign.com/metals/wha ... plications

https://help.leonardo-energy.org/hc/en- ... conductors