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Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2008, 23:45:11
by bodigami
Seriously, we go through growth-decay cyclic processes... and use our "superior mind" to innovate our way out of the mess we created. This is evident in human nature; greed, anger, lust, anxiety, envy, and other negative-karma producing actions. Are they really good for our survival? I'm sure they are NOT, more than not being "evil" it is about surviving in a more efficient way through evolution of mind instead of extinction or instead of continue devolving into a pathetic and destructive specie that always "lives by de edge of the sword". This is insane! TFSHTF is just the biggest "way downward" that our specie have experienced. I chose to use this as a way to learn from past negative karma that created our crap-filled world (which, according to rebirth I'm actually "guilty of").

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Tue 01 Apr 2008, 00:15:43
by canis_lupus
timeout

this is just another of several civilization collapses and there will be more after this one.

greed, anger, lust, anxiety, envy are things that can't be helped...they are what makes us human. we, as a species, strive to move forward. when we fall, we fall spectacularly.

we've been here, what, 200,000 years. i think we've survived and unless kill ourselves with nukes, we'll be here for awhile.

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Tue 01 Apr 2008, 00:30:34
by kpeavey
It's about time. You have not started a pointless thread in almost 2 days.

I was becoming concerned.

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Tue 01 Apr 2008, 00:41:25
by americandream
zensui wrote:Seriously, we go through growth-decay cyclic processes... and use our "superior mind" to innovate our way out of the mess we created. This is evident in human nature; greed, anger, lust, anxiety, envy, and other negative-karma producing actions. Are they really good for our survival? I'm sure they are NOT, more than not being "evil" it is about surviving in a more efficient way through evolution of mind instead of extinction or instead of continue devolving into a pathetic and destructive specie that always "lives by de edge of the sword". This is insane! TFSHTF is just the biggest "way downward" that our specie have experienced. I chose to use this as a way to learn from past negative karma that created our crap-filled world (which, according to rebirth I'm actually "guilty of").


When one follows to teachings of the buddha beyond the solpisistic interpretations of many of those who have preceded/followed him, one is left with the conclusion that ultimately, there is no negative or positive karma, nor is it personal to the being one presents as.

One is in effect the perfect experiential fallacy, a functional aspect of a dialectic paradox, nothing more, nothing less. And you will play that role with choiceless perfection.

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Tue 01 Apr 2008, 03:40:24
by SILENTTODD
error

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Tue 01 Apr 2008, 11:04:05
by Ludi
Zensui, I recommend you read the writings of Daniel Quinn. They may give you a different perspective on "our species."

http://www.ishmael.org/welcome.cfm

Also the writings of Jason Godesky

http://anthropik.com/

specifically

http://anthropik.com/2005/08/thesis-5-h ... -nor-evil/

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Tue 01 Apr 2008, 11:33:15
by steam_cannon
Ludi wrote:Zensui, I recommend you read the writings of Daniel Quinn...
Sorry, for a second I thought that read "Dan Quayle" :lol:

Image

"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and
have a tremendous impact on history." - Dan Quayle
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Dan_Quayle/

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Tue 01 Apr 2008, 12:02:00
by BigTex
Zensui, it's not that complicated.

As a species, we have excellent survival instincts and our minds are really an amazing example of coherent complexity arising from the randomness of nature.

What messed us up is life got too easy when we discovered non-renewable resources and what they could do for us. Ever since then, we have been drifting farther and farther from the habitat that we were designed to inhabit.

Think about why alienation is one of the central themes of the modern mind. You know why that is? BECAUSE WE'VE ALIENATED OURSELVES FROM THE WORLD WE ARE DESIGNED TO INHABIT!!!

It's like a lion in a zoo wondering why he's depressed.

Think about it like this: imagine you delivered a train car full of bananas and a big pile of Tinker Toys to a group of chimpanzees in the wild. Would you be surprised if you came back to find that their banana gathering and tree climbing skills were a little rusty? Would it surprise you if they had driven themselves crazy trying to outdo each other with more and more elaborate Tinker Toy creations? Would it surprise you if there were a few dead chimps laying around as a result of banana resource wars (since none of the chimps actually remembered how to get bananas except by going to the train car that had started to run a little low)?

Cheap oil is our train car full of bananas and technology is our Tinker Toy set.

It's not that we haven't LEARNED how to survive, it's that we've FORGOTTEN how to survive.

Imagine a fat despondent chimp wandering around the barren chimp colony wearing a Tinker Toy head-dress and grunting to the train car banana gods.

That's us.

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Wed 02 Apr 2008, 02:12:00
by bodigami
BigTex, yeah... maybe we forgotten how to survive; but if that analogy is correct... we still have to learn from our mistakes.

steam_cannon, nice quote.

Ludi, I will tag those links for later reading.

To prior posters, I won't bother answering individually because I can sum up my reply in this: "talk to me again when you have at least entered the stream".

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Wed 02 Apr 2008, 11:03:38
by Ludi
BigTex wrote: BECAUSE WE'VE ALIENATED OURSELVES FROM THE WORLD WE ARE DESIGNED TO INHABIT!!!

It's like a lion in a zoo wondering why he's depressed.




100% agreement here.

I'm never so happy and contented as when I'm outside among the plants and animals (wild and domestic).

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Wed 02 Apr 2008, 11:14:11
by FoolYap
steam_cannon wrote:
Ludi wrote:Zensui, I recommend you read the writings of Daniel Quinn...
Sorry, for a second I thought that read "Dan Quayle" :lol:

Image

"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and
have a tremendous impact on history." - Dan Quayle
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Dan_Quayle/


You say "potato", I say "potatoe". :razz:

--Steve

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Wed 02 Apr 2008, 20:52:38
by RedStateGreen
I like Jason Godesky's writings a lot.

Other than a warm bed and hot showers, civilization doesn't have much going for it.

Re: Our species has not learned how to survive

Unread postPosted: Wed 02 Apr 2008, 21:14:59
by Zardoz
RedStateGreen wrote:Other than a warm bed and hot showers, civilization doesn't have much going for it.

Yeah, but for some of us, those two things kinda make it all worthwhile...

Nature: Approaching a state shift in Earth's biosphere

Unread postPosted: Wed 10 Oct 2012, 00:24:21
by lotrfan55345
Another Malthusian article makes it to one of the world's most prestigious scientific journals. A rigorous and quite frightening review of tipping points in ecological and civilizational collapse.
Localized ecological systems are known to shift abruptly and irreversibly from one state to another when they are forced across critical thresholds. Here we review evidence that the global ecosystem as a whole can react in the same way and is approaching a planetary-scale critical transition as a result of human influence. The plausibility of a planetary-scale ‘tipping point’ highlights the need to improve biological forecasting by detecting early warning signs of critical transitions on global as well as local scales, and by detecting feedbacks that promote such transitions. It is also necessary to address root causes of how humans are forcing biological changes.

pdf

Re: Nature: Approaching a state shift in Earth's biosphere

Unread postPosted: Wed 10 Oct 2012, 08:24:42
by vision-master

Re: Nature: Approaching a state shift in Earth's biosphere

Unread postPosted: Wed 10 Oct 2012, 15:23:46
by dohboi
Squirrel!

Re: Nature: Approaching a state shift in Earth's biosphere

Unread postPosted: Wed 10 Oct 2012, 22:58:47
by Keith_McClary
Basics of state shift theory
It is now well documented that biological systems on many scales can
shift rapidly from an existing state to a radically different state12.
Biological ‘states’ are neither steady nor in equilibrium; rather, they
are characterized by a defined range of deviations from a mean con-
dition over a prescribed period of time. The shift from one state to
another can be caused by either a ‘threshold’ or ‘sledgehammer’ effect.
State shifts resulting from threshold effects can be difficult to anticipate,
because the critical threshold is reached as incremental changes accu-
mulate and the threshold value generally is not known in advance. By
contrast, a state shift caused by a sledgehammer effect—for example the
clearing of a forest using a bulldozer—comes as no surprise. In both
cases, the state shift is relatively abrupt and leads to new mean condi-
tions outside the range of fluctuation evident in the previous state.
Threshold-induced state shifts, or critical transitions, can result from
‘fold bifurcations’ and can show hysteresis12. The net effect is that once a
critical transition occurs, it is extremely difficult or even impossible for
the system to return to its previous state. Critical transitions can also
result from more complex bifurcations, which have a different character
from fold bifurcations but which also lead to irreversible changes20.
Recent theoretical work suggests that state shifts due to fold bifurca-
tions are probably preceded by general phenomena that can be char-
acterized mathematically: a deceleration in recovery from perturbations
(‘critical slowing down’), an increase in variance in the pattern of within-
state fluctuations, an increase in autocorrelation between fluctuations,
an increase in asymmetry of fluctuations and rapid back-and-forth shifts
(‘flickering’) between states12,14,18. These phenomena can theoretically be assessed within any temporally and spatially bounded system. Although
such assessment is not yet straightforward12,18,20, critical transitions and
in some cases their warning signs have become evident in diverse bio-
logical investigations21, for example in assessing the dynamics of disease
outbreaks22,23, populations14 and lake ecosystems12,13. Impending state
shifts can also sometimes be determined by parameterizing relatively
simple models20,21.
In the context of forecasting biological change, the realization that
critical transitions and state shifts can occur on the global scale3,12,15–18, as
well as on smaller scales, is of great importance. One key question is how
to recognize a global-scale state shift. Another is whether global-scale
state shifts are the cumulative result of many smaller-scale events that
originate in local systems or instead require global-level forcings that
emerge on the planetary scale and then percolate downwards to cause
changes in local systems. Examining past global-scale state shifts pro-
vides useful insights into both of these issues.

These "chaotic" phenomena seem to be well established in planetary orbits, structural engineering (earthquakes), electronics and other fields. I understand have been exposed to the underlying math but I would despair of getting policy makers (politicians) to take seriously "tipping points", "bifurcations" or "state shifts" in the global biosphere as something that they should do something about.

Re: Nature: Approaching a state shift in Earth's biosphere

Unread postPosted: Thu 11 Oct 2012, 14:02:41
by vision-master
You sound like the nutty professor.. lsol

Re: Nature: Approaching a state shift in Earth's biosphere

Unread postPosted: Thu 11 Oct 2012, 17:52:11
by dohboi
The fact of the matter is that the whole globe is in the midst of a climatic state shift. We have just seen the faintest hint of it this spring and summer. The next five, and certainly ten, years will see nearly the entire globe go into a dramatically different state.

Re: Nature: Approaching a state shift in Earth's biosphere

Unread postPosted: Fri 12 Oct 2012, 09:38:42
by vision-master
dohboi wrote:The fact of the matter is that the whole globe is in the midst of a climatic state shift. We have just seen the faintest hint of it this spring and summer. The next five, and certainly ten, years will see nearly the entire globe go into a dramatically different state.


an to 'blame' it all on 'global warmming' is a misnomer.........