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Carrying Capacity/Human Overshoot; Pt. 3, 21st century perspecti

Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Fri 10 Oct 2014, 22:03:04

Here's a video I made about the correlation between overpopulation and peak oil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFTNhDz7UKE
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 11 Oct 2014, 09:39:23

Desu,

You are following in some pretty deep tracks. Al Bartlett, who died about a year ago, had a very similar message. But it could use a refresh to make it more accessible to the younger generation.

http://www.albartlett.org/presentations ... nergy.html
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sun 12 Oct 2014, 12:41:04

Newfie wrote:Desu,

You are following in some pretty deep tracks. Al Bartlett, who died about a year ago, had a very similar message. But it could use a refresh to make it more accessible to the younger generation.

http://www.albartlett.org/presentations ... nergy.html

What do you mean by "it could use a refresh to make it more accessible to the younger generation"?
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sun 12 Oct 2014, 15:20:26

pstarr wrote:I believe he means that Bartlett's obsession with some esoteric disciplines (like algebra and geometry) might be off-putting to a certain demographic, and in need of dumbing down.

I explained overpopulation in the simplest terms possible.
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 12 Oct 2014, 16:17:31

DesuMaiden wrote:
pstarr wrote:I believe he means that Bartlett's obsession with some esoteric disciplines (like algebra and geometry) might be off-putting to a certain demographic, and in need of dumbing down.

I explained overpopulation in the simplest terms possible.


Desu, he didn't mean your presentation. He meant Bartlett's.
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sun 12 Oct 2014, 16:48:16

Ibon wrote:
DesuMaiden wrote:
pstarr wrote:I believe he means that Bartlett's obsession with some esoteric disciplines (like algebra and geometry) might be off-putting to a certain demographic, and in need of dumbing down.

I explained overpopulation in the simplest terms possible.


Desu, he didn't mean your presentation. He meant Bartlett's.

Yeah I tried explaining things as simply as possible. I used concentrate examples of natural resources we are running short of.
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby JuanP » Sun 12 Oct 2014, 22:34:42

Desu, I second Newfie's recommendation of Professor Albert Bartlett's speech.
http://www.albartlett.org/presentations ... nergy.html
I have watched it many times and shared it with friends and family. I think it is excellent.
I watched your YT video. You said a lot in five minutes. I liked it. Gave you a thumb up!
I have been with my wife for 25 years, but we chose not to have children. I had a Vasectomy and will never have children. I am filled with sadness when I look at today's children and imagine their possible futures. I couldn't knowingly bring children into this world. In my opinion, most people have children without ever giving the global population crisis any thought.
I believe the coming population correction will be brutal and will outlast the lives of children being born today. I wouldn't put a child of mine through that under any circumstances. My younger brother feels the same way and did the same thing.
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sun 02 Nov 2014, 20:04:11

pstarr wrote:If it is any consolation, those among us fortunate to live in North America will probably be fine post-peak, in the coming contraction. This is still a relatively underpopulated, fertile, temperate continent. It may be gloomy here in the future, but not desperate.

The worst place to be when oil shortages happen is East and South Asia because they are highly populated. Those parts of the world have a very high population density, so oil shortages will be devastating.
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 02 Nov 2014, 20:21:17

DesuMaiden wrote:The worst place to be when oil shortages happen is East and South Asia because they are highly populated. Those parts of the world have a very high population density, so oil shortages will be devastating.
Maybe not. They already seem to get along with a lot less oil per capita then the west does. I wouldn't want to be in the UK or northern Europe in the dead of winter with a shortage of fossil fuel.
I don't suppose location is all that important though as the market will move oil to where the demand is so all regions will suffer when it goes short.
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sun 02 Nov 2014, 20:24:57

vtsnowedin wrote:
DesuMaiden wrote:The worst place to be when oil shortages happen is East and South Asia because they are highly populated. Those parts of the world have a very high population density, so oil shortages will be devastating.
Maybe not. They already seem to get along with a lot less oil per capita then the west does. I wouldn't want to be in the UK or northern Europe in the dead of winter with a shortage of fossil fuel.
I don't suppose location is all that important though as the market will move oil to where the demand is so all regions will suffer when it goes short.

Good point.
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 02 Nov 2014, 22:10:21

I see your point VT, but I don't know that it's that simple. My guess is that things will be highly complex and the many variables will make for a dynamic situation.

In short, anyone's guess.
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 03 Nov 2014, 07:27:41

Newfie wrote:I see your point VT, but I don't know that it's that simple. My guess is that things will be highly complex and the many variables will make for a dynamic situation.

In short, anyone's guess.

Agreed. Some producing countries will undoubtedly try to stop exporting oil to save it for their own use. They will then find out that the civilized world is not all that civilized when they are cold and hungry.
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Re: Overpopulation and peak oil...

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sat 08 Nov 2014, 15:58:39

vtsnowedin wrote:
Newfie wrote:I see your point VT, but I don't know that it's that simple. My guess is that things will be highly complex and the many variables will make for a dynamic situation.

In short, anyone's guess.

Agreed. Some producing countries will undoubtedly try to stop exporting oil to save it for their own use. They will then find out that the civilized world is not all that civilized when they are cold and hungry.

At the current moment, Saudi Arabia still has plenty of oil to export.
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Why is overpopulation such a taboo topic? Pt. 3

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 20 Dec 2014, 18:30:44

this all makes sense to me. However, some have interpreted them as being written by a ruling evil cabal intent on world domination. Well if they can bring all this about, I would not mind being dominated by them :-D
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Re: Why is overpopulation such a taboo topic? Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 21 Dec 2014, 10:59:27

(Just ding last post on previous part 2 for some continuity)

Ever hear of the Georgia Guidestones? There a lot to like there.

1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2. Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
4. Rule passion — faith — tradition — and all things with tempered reason.
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
9. Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.
10. Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.
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Re: Why is overpopulation such a taboo topic? Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 21 Dec 2014, 11:01:37

onlooker wrote:this all makes sense to me. However, some have interpreted them as being written by a ruling evil cabal intent on world domination. Well if they can bring all this about, I would not mind being dominated by them :-D


While I generwlly dislike talk of TPTB and such, I find these guides thoughtful and the idea of a ruling cabal who is even aware of the issues somewhat hopeful.

Yes, they are not a bad set of rules to aspire to.
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Re: Why is overpopulation such a taboo topic? Pt. 3

Unread postby BobInget » Mon 22 Dec 2014, 12:10:40

First, we need to come clean as to how babies are made.
There is no way for Indian, Pakistani, as example, young people to find out about reproduction, save internet porn, misleading to say the least.

Mormons tell young not only to 'go forth and multiply' and have five children.

“Those who have taken upon themselves the responsibility of wedded life should see to it that they do not abuse the course of nature; that they do not destroy the principle of life within them, nor violate any of the commandments of God. The command which he gave in the beginning to multiply and replenish the earth is still in force upon the children of men. Possibly no greater sin could be committed by the people who have embraced this gospel than to prevent or to destroy life in the manner indicated. We are born into the world that we may have life, and we live that we may have a fullness of joy, and if we will obtain a fullness of joy, we must obey the law of our creation and the law by which we may obtain the consummation of our righteous hopes and desires -- life eternal.”

- Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, p. 276

The Roman Catholics never set limits. Birth control devices are prohibited.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... s2c3a7.htm

Allah also said: "Wealth and children are the adornment of the life of this world." (al-Kahf 46)

Jewish Law has traditionally opposed birth control or abortion when practiced for purely selfish reasons. The first mitzvah we find in the Torah is to have children, to "be fertile and increase". Judaism believes that a home without children is a home without blessing. However, Judaism also believes that as long as a couple is planning to have children, the concept of planned parenthood or spacing of births does not constitute a religious problem in Judaism. Judaism is more concerned with the birth control method used; in particular, some methods are not permitted because of the injunction against "the destruction of seed." For example, contemporary Orthodox rabbinical authority has expressed no objection to the use of the "pill". Still, the use of condoms is forbidden, as are some uterine devices.1

It is also true though, that traditionally Judaism has encouraged having many children. Some of this is based on the argument that, after the Holocaust, Jews should not avoid having children. The minimum number of children one must have to fulfill the Mitzvah "to be fertile and increase" is a matter of rabbinic dispute. Some rabbis say that one must have at least two children, and some say at least one of each sex.
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Re: Why is overpopulation such a taboo topic? Pt. 3

Unread postby efarmer » Mon 22 Dec 2014, 13:45:27

Because when you ask us Kudzu Apes about the herd being too large, we realize that everyone who ponders this question usually considers themselves to be a keeper, and that makes the rest of us cullers. Instead we talk about energy limits which of course imply population shrinkage inherently without talking about it with the herd of us.
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