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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postPosted: Sat 07 Oct 2017, 21:55:19
by pstarr
Cid_Yama wrote:If p only had a brain.

stupid waste of bandwidth, server time/space, distribution overhead, and coal-fired electric generation. You have emitted crap AND CO2. What a hypocrite. All of that waste just to lay a stupid-bomb on me.

But nothing to say about the study. Bothered to read it? I did, you silly frosh

Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postPosted: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 04:33:54
by Cid_Yama
No, it wasn't a waste. You're an idiot, and I've had my fill.

It's the end. It's over. Why should I tolerate your crap any longer?

Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postPosted: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 09:30:43
by dohboi
What p fails to realize is that, even though global are only about 1 degree C above pre-industrial levels, temperatures over land are much higher than that, on average.

But mostly p seems to just be spitting in the wind these days, so I rarely bother to even look at his posts.

Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postPosted: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 09:57:42
by Sys1
Since a while, I think it's not impossible to consider that global warming could trigger one or more supervolcanoes :
Let me explain : Earth core and mantle creates heat that head to the surface and then dissipate to the contact with water/atmosphere/ground.
As global warming acts as a blanket on Earth, all this heat can not dissipate as fast as it is created and so accumulate to the point (a kind of boiling point) where too much heat must be released fast.
A supervolcano could dissipate fast this "too much" heat in two ways :
1) by letting magma going to the surface in large quantities
2) massive dust in the atmosphere would block sunlight and Earth would cold very fast (like loosing more than 10°C) in a matter of weeks.

Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postPosted: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 14:25:58
by Cid_Yama
The area of hotspots of methane are spreading, now encompassing a full 10% of the 2 million sq km of the ESAS. Which is 200,000 sq km.

Not only is the area of release spreading, the rate and volume of release is increasing, and they expect it to increase exponentially 3-5 orders of magnitude.

That there is no way to shut this off, short of sea level dropping and exposing the shelves to temperatures capable of refreezing the permafrost. We know that isn't going to happen.

That the methane will continue to release until there is no more to release, and that just 1% of the available methane will be enough to cause catastrophic climate change.

The interview with Semiletov and Shakhova was published 24 June 2017. their paper, Current rates and mechanisms of subsea permafrost degradation in the East Siberian Arctic Shelf, was published 22 June 2017.

You want to challenge their research, I've provided links.

Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postPosted: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 15:24:04
by dohboi
Bbbbbut...I have a couple articles (which I cite over and over again to the exclusion of all other evidence) that I interpret to mean that methane can't possibly ever be any kind of threat to anything or anyone ever, so we now don't have to worry about it at all anymore!!! :-D :-D :-D

(Channeling TB from asif here, for those following that stuff... :lol: :lol: :lol: )

Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postPosted: Wed 11 Oct 2017, 22:09:29
by Cid_Yama
Methane cycling in Arctic shelf water and its relationship with phytoplankton biomass and DMSP
Methane in situ production occurs frequently in the oxygenated upper ocean. A principal pathway by which methane can be formed is methylotrophic methanogenesis, while an important methylated substrate is DMSP (dimethylsulfoniopropionate) produced by marine phytoplankton. Here we report on an in situ methane production/consumption cycle during a summer phytoplankton bloom and a potential link to DMSP concentration in Storfjorden (Svalbard Archipelago) – a polar shelf region.
We propose that methane in situ production occurs during the summer phytoplankton bloom. The concentration of methane increases up to a certain threshold value, above which methane consumption begins. A methane production-removal cycle is established, which is reflected in the varying methane concentrations and δ13CCH4 values. DMSP and methane are inversely correlated suggesting that DMSP could be a potential substrate for the methylotrophic methanogenesis.


Appears Pohlman and Ruppel are describing half of a production-removal cycle. And since surface waters release methane to the atmosphere, consumption can only take place on what's left in the water column.

Therefore, Algal blooms are not a sink, but rather a source.

Methylphosphonate can also act as a substrate to methanogenesis.

Microbial methane production has traditionally been thought to be the exclusive purview of a specialized group of Archaea termed methanogens. These organisms are highly oxygen sensitive, and only produce methane in places where all the oxygen has already been consumed, like in lake and ocean sediments, or inside the guts of animals, including humans.

However, such traditional methanogenesis wasn’t enough to explain the large amount of methane coming out of the oceans, mostly because methane generated in ocean sediments has to travel a long way to get to the surface, and it usually gets eaten by other microorganisms termed methanotrophs (methane eaters) prior to being released into the atmosphere. Nevertheless, methane can be observed in high concentrations in surface waters worldwide, and this puzzle has been dubbed the “oceanic methane paradox.”

The first half of the marine methane puzzle was solved in 2009 by researchers at University of Hawaii and MIT. They discovered that microorganisms, frequently starved for phosphorous, would metabolize a phosphorous-containing compound called methylphosphonate, and in the process release a methane molecule. This was the first time that methanogenesis had been discovered occurring in water where oxygen was present, and importantly, happened in surface waters where the methane could make it to the atmosphere before being consumed by methanotrophs.

What remained a mystery was where all the methylphosphonate was coming from. In order for this “aerobic methanogenesis” to be able to explain 4% of the total methane in the atmosphere, there would have to be a huge amount of methylphosphonate in the ocean, but no one had observed that. In August, researchers from the University of Illinois working on soil microbes reported that microorganisms called Thaumarchaea create a large amount of methylphosphonate with a previously unknown set of genes. Now, it turns out that these Thaumarchaea are also one of the most abundant groups of microorganisms in the oceans, and surveys demonstrated these newly discovered genes in abundance throughout the world’s oceans, not only in Thaumarchaea, but also in other microbes that dominate the water column. The reason why methylphosphonate had not been previously observed was because it was bound to the microbial cells that make it, not freely dissolved in the water. When these cells die, they have the potential to release that methylphosphonate which can be consumed by organisms that do aerobic methanogenesis, creating, as the authors describe, “a plausible explanation for the methane paradox.”


Oxic water column methanogenesis as a major component of aquatic CH4 fluxes
The relationship between CH4 and phytoplankton observed here (Fig. 2) has been hypothesized before to explain both the presence of metabolically active methanogens, and the recurrent metalimnetic and near-surface CH4 peaks in oxic lake9,10,18,19 and marine13,14,15,16,17 environments. We confirm this link experimentally, and further show that it generates a significant out flux of CH4 from the mesocosms to the atmosphere (Fig. 1b). These results in turn imply that factors influencing phytoplankton standing stock and GPP, such as grazing, nutrient availability and the physical structure of the water column, will have a strong bearing on pelagic CH4 dynamics and resulting CH4 emissions.

There are potentially large global implications for algal-driven oxic-water methanogenesis. CH4 emissions from surface waters, particularly from freshwaters2,3,4, are a major element of the global atmospheric CH4 budget, and we suggest here that the algal-mediated baseline flux is not only a major contributor to these overall aquatic CH4 emissions, but also one that is particularly sensitive to environmental change. As such, widespread and intensifying human- and climate-driven changes in pelagic nutrient availability47,48,49, terrestrial DOC inputs50,51 and physical structure of the water column47,48,51, which strongly shape aquatic algal dynamics47,51,52,53,54, may have major, but previously unconsidered, consequences for oxic water methanogenesis and aquatic CH4 emissions.


Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postPosted: Tue 07 Nov 2017, 16:13:31
by dohboi
There's a lot more carbon just in the top two to three meters of the world's soils, that is likely to mostly end up in the atmospheres, as the whiplash of extreme droughts and extreme deluges denudes the planet of its topsoils:

Comprehensive review of soil carbon stocks, taking into bedrock horizons, mineralization and food webs.

The global SOC stock in the upper 2 m of soil is 2,273 Pg C, with the boreal forest biome containing 623 Pg, or 27% of the global total (Table 2). Peatlands contain 543 Pg SOC, most of it in boreal, temperate broadleaf and tropical, moist broadleaf forest biomes; permafrost regions contain 582 Pg SOC, or 26% of the global total (Table 2).

They have limited data on the 2-3m carbon stock and deeper, but they attempt it:

Thus, the global total soil carbon pool to a depth of 3 m is estimated as 2,800 Pg C. Deeper (>3 m) deposits include an additional ~300–500 Pg OC in the permafrost region (Schuur et al. 2015), ~30–50 Pg C in tropical peatlands, and an unknown quantity of OC in other environments with deep sediments such as deltas, floodplains, and loess deposits.

Pushing the total to well over 3,000 Pg of carbon, about the same total weight of CO2 currently in the atmosphere. If all the soil carbon converted to atmospheric CO2, it would be about 3 and 2/3 heavier than all the CO2 currently in the atmosphere. (But someone else, please, check my maths. Thanks!)


Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postPosted: Mon 20 Nov 2017, 16:32:38
by onlooker ... s-at-risk/
From carbon sink to source: Brazil puts Amazon, Paris goals at risk