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THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby kiwichick » Wed 16 Mar 2016, 19:13:40

good
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby americandream » Wed 16 Mar 2016, 19:19:18

dohboi wrote:http://ecowatch.com/2016/03/14/atlantic-salmon-extinct/

Atlantic Salmon Is All But Extinct as a Genetically Eroded Version of Farmed Salmon Has Taken Over


Wonder what the impact will be long term?
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 17 Mar 2016, 19:17:02

Good to their word Indonesia has sunk the bandit ship they caught.

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articl ... y-interpol

:-D
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby kiwichick » Mon 21 Mar 2016, 01:32:10

it will be interesting to see what the January - March Ocean Heat Content figure comes in at
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 22 Mar 2016, 09:16:11

Latest from Hansen...came out yesterday on his paper out today.

Rapid SLR, AMOC shut down, and super storms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP-cRqCQRc8

(Thanks to anna at rs for this link)

What the gardian says about it :
Climate guru James Hansen warns of much worse than expected sea level rise
https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... -scientist

Hansen is also conservative! Though he is probably right there is not enough data to be sure; the trend is less than a 10 year doubling. Should we wait for more data ? ... personally I would say no !

(Thanks to Laurent at neven's for this link and text)
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 23 Mar 2016, 12:06:30

Another feedback that will likely drive sea level rise faster than what is currently predicted in most models--bacteria darkening the GIS: http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere ... ctive.html
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 23 Mar 2016, 22:11:01

true risks of abrupt sea level rise:


http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... eview.html


Hansen’s co-author Eric Rignot said in an email that the exploration of such extreme scenarios was justified “because they are not unlikely, and they are more likely than the more conservative scenarios branded by [United Nations] reports.”

“Ice sheet loss is non linear by nature,” said Rignot. “You push the ice sheet one way, they do not react; you push them more, they start reacting; you keep pushing and they fall apart. … If we get there, we won't be able to fix it.”

Kim Cobb, a climate scientist specializing in ancient climate change, agrees that the Hansen study is useful mostly because it explores the worst-case scenario. “My bet is on non-linearities kicking in that we cannot yet measure adequately,” Cobb said in an email. “In that way I think it’s important to explore the upper limits.”
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby kiwichick » Fri 25 Mar 2016, 02:41:31

The Guardian reports that the Great Barrier Reef is suffering from it's worst ever coral bleaching............ the scientist that did the aerial survey is pessimistic about the prospects for recovery............the reef is one of the most popular destinations of tourists to Australia..........and a very important source of jobs for the local Queenslanders
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 25 Mar 2016, 08:41:14

kiwichick wrote:The Guardian reports that the Great Barrier Reef is suffering from it's worst ever coral bleaching............ the scientist that did the aerial survey is pessimistic about the prospects for recovery............the reef is one of the most popular destinations of tourists to Australia..........and a very important source of jobs for the local Queenslanders


I read somewhere that the main cause of bleaching events is when the water temperature goes too high the coral expels the algae then living with it in a symbiotic relationship in hopes that it can attract algae that are more suited to the new temperature range.

If that is true it seems like humans should be able to intervene by supplying the more heat adapted algae to the bleached corals before they die without their symbiotic algae. I don't know that would work, but I really think we should at least try and see if we can keep the corals from dying.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 25 Mar 2016, 09:02:59

IIRC, there are some reefs that seem to be more resistant to bleaching. I think someone was studying how that might help us figure out how to save others, but I haven't seen much on that recently.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby dissident » Fri 25 Mar 2016, 09:44:30

The change in acidity is the show stopper since biochemistry is not "tunable". The biogeochmemical stress of humanity on the oceans is going to be the real disaster story in the coming decades and centuries. And the past is a guide since ocean anoxic conditions induced by previous warming events point to a very sensitive system.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby kiwichick » Fri 25 Mar 2016, 18:24:36

+1 diss

and if we are adding ghg's at 10x the rate of the previous fastest rate scientists have found in the geological record , we are looking at the extinction of 90+% of life in our oceans.

is it one or two billion humans that are largely reliant on the oceans for their food?
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 26 Mar 2016, 08:48:47

Just to be clear, kw, that's the carbon weight. The actual full weight of the greenhouse gasses we are emitting is ~ 35 - 40 billion tons/year.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby kiwichick » Sat 26 Mar 2016, 13:05:36

@ d

yes I thought I read that maximum emissions peaked at about 4 million tonnes ( during the PETM )
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby kiwichick » Sat 26 Mar 2016, 13:18:19

sorry ......billion tonnes.....
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 03 Apr 2016, 12:13:45

http://enenews.com/mind-blowing-die-pac ... es-full-de
“Mind Blowing”: Die-off in Pacific far worse than anything ever seen before — Expert: Alarm over what’s happening in ocean — Deaths puzzling gov’t scientists, “I’ve never heard of such a thing anywhere in world” — Reports: Beaches full of bodies… Countless carcasses — Official: We want to know if it’s related to Fukushima (VIDEO)
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 03 Apr 2016, 16:34:04

The prior section of this thread can be found,

the-oceans-seas-thread-pt-2-merged-t59250.html
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 03 Apr 2016, 22:40:40

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... 620?page=2

Let's start off with an oldie but goodie, prescient, really, given what we've learned since about the likelihood of accelerated sea level rise:

Goodbye, Miami
By century's end, rising sea levels will turn the nation's urban fantasyland into an American Atlantis. But long before the city is completely underwater, chaos will begin


When the water receded after Hurricane Milo of 2030, there was a foot of sand covering the famous bow-tie floor in the lobby of the Fontaine­bleau hotel in Miami Beach. A dead manatee floated in the pool where Elvis had once swum. Most of the damage occurred not from the hurricane's 175-mph winds, but from the 24-foot storm surge that overwhelmed the low-lying city. In South Beach, the old art-deco­ buildings were swept off their foundations. Mansions on Star Island were flooded up to their cut-glass doorknobs. A 17-mile stretch of Highway A1A that ran along the famous beaches up to Fort Lauderdale disappeared into the Atlantic. The storm knocked out the wastewater-treatment plant on Virginia Key, forcing the city to dump hundreds of millions of gallons of raw sewage into Biscayne Bay. Tampons and condoms littered the beaches, and the stench of human excrement stoked fears of cholera. More than 800 people died, many of them swept away by the surging waters that submerged much of Miami Beach and Fort Lauderdale; 13 people were killed in traffic accidents as they scrambled to escape the city after the news spread – falsely, it turned out – that one of the nuclear reactors at Turkey Point, an aging power plant 24 miles south of Miami, had been destroyed by the surge and sent a radioactive cloud over the city.

The president, of course, said Miami would be back, that the hurricane did not kill the city, and that Americans did not give up. But it was clear to those not fooling themselves that this storm was the beginning of the end. With sea levels more than a foot higher than they'd been at the dawn of the century, South Florida was wet, vulnerable and bankrupt. Attempts had been made to armor the coastline, to build sea walls and elevate buildings, but it was a futile undertaking. The coastline from Miami Beach up to Jupiter had been a little more than a series of rugged limestone crags since the mid-2020s, when the state, unable to lay out $100 million every few years to pump in fresh sand, had given up trying to save South Florida's world-famous­ beaches. In that past decade, tourist visits had plummeted by 40 percent, even after the Florida legislature agreed to allow casino gambling in a desperate attempt to raise revenue for storm protection. The city of Homestead, in southern Miami-Dade County, which had been flattened by Hurricane Andrew in 1992, had to be completely abandoned. Thousands of tract homes were bulldozed because they were a public health hazard. In the parts of the county that were still inhabitable, only the wealthiest could afford to insure their homes. Mortgages were nearly impossible to get, mostly because banks didn't believe the homes would be there in 30 years. At high tide, many roads were impassable, even for the most modern semiaquatic vehicles.

But Hurricane Milo was unexpectedly devastating. Because sea-level­ rise had already pushed the water table so high, it took weeks for the storm waters to recede. Salt water corroded underground wiring, leaving parts of the city dark for months. Drinking-water­ wells were ruined. Interstate 95 was clogged with cars and trucks stuffed with animals and personal belongings, as hundreds of thousands of people fled north to Orlando, the highest ground in central Florida. Developers drew up plans for new buildings on stilts, but few were built. A new flexible carbon-fiber­ bridge was proposed to link Miami Beach with the mainland, but the bankrupt city couldn't secure financing and the project fell apart. The skyscrapers that had gone up during the Obama years were gradually abandoned and used as staging grounds for drug runners and exotic-animal traffickers. A crocodile nested in the ruins of the Pérez Art Museum.

And still, the waters kept rising, nearly a foot each decade. By the latter end of the 21st century, Miami became something else entirely: a popular snorkeling spot where people could swim with sharks and sea turtles and explore the wreckage of a great American city...

...Sea-level rise is not a hypothetical disaster. It is a physical fact of life on a warming planet, the basic dynamics of which even a child can understand: Heat melts ice. Since the 1920s, the global average sea level has risen about nine inches, mostly from the thermal expansion of the ocean water. But thanks to our 200-year-long fossil-fuel binge, the great ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica are starting to melt rapidly now, causing the rate of sea-level rise to grow exponentially. The latest research, including an assessment by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, suggests that sea level could rise more than six feet by the end of the century. James Hansen, the godfather of global-warming science, has argued that it could increase as high as 16 feet by then – and Wanless believes that it could continue rising a foot each decade after that. "With six feet of sea-level rise, South Florida is toast," says Tom Gustafson, a former Florida speaker of the House and a climate-change-policy advocate. Even if we cut carbon pollution overnight, it won't save us. Ohio State glaciologist Jason Box has said he believes we already have 70 feet of sea-level rise baked into the system.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sun 03 Apr 2016, 23:22:31

From the sidebar of the Alaskan Seabird Die-off article at Energy News.

100% death rate of baby seals on California coast — “None have survived” — “Many are starving, suffering from shortage of food in Pacific Ocean” — “Extremely thin… all sorts of illnesses, infections” — “Milkless moms immediately abandoning pups” — TV: “The problem is getting worse” (VIDEOS)
Local Official: Alarm over very sick animals washing ashore in Alaska — Fish bleeding from face, bloody entrails coming out of body — “We are very much aware of the possibility of radiation from Fukushima affecting ocean life” (PHOTOS)
TV: Radiation in ocean off Fukushima at highest levels in years — Out of control leakage coming from plant — ‘Big spikes’ in radioactivity observed — “Surprising… Concerning… Crisis” — 1,000s of tons of contaminated liquid being released — Scientists: Japan gov’t covering up situation (AUDIO)


Alaska is very close to Japan. (look at a globe) The Kuroshio current runs past Japan to Alaska.

Hey, Cog, how about some Alaskan Pollock? Bon Apetit!
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dissident » Mon 04 Apr 2016, 20:36:46

Cid_Yama wrote:From the sidebar of the Alaskan Seabird Die-off article at Energy News.

100% death rate of baby seals on California coast — “None have survived” — “Many are starving, suffering from shortage of food in Pacific Ocean” — “Extremely thin… all sorts of illnesses, infections” — “Milkless moms immediately abandoning pups” — TV: “The problem is getting worse” (VIDEOS)
Local Official: Alarm over very sick animals washing ashore in Alaska — Fish bleeding from face, bloody entrails coming out of body — “We are very much aware of the possibility of radiation from Fukushima affecting ocean life” (PHOTOS)
TV: Radiation in ocean off Fukushima at highest levels in years — Out of control leakage coming from plant — ‘Big spikes’ in radioactivity observed — “Surprising… Concerning… Crisis” — 1,000s of tons of contaminated liquid being released — Scientists: Japan gov’t covering up situation (AUDIO)


Alaska is very close to Japan. (look at a globe) The Kuroshio current runs past Japan to Alaska.

Hey, Cog, how about some Alaskan Pollock? Bon Apetit!


Given the transport timescales, the large radiation dumping by Japan into the Pacific in 2011 has now fully worked its way to the waters south of Alaska and down the BC coast.

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/a ... ents/43196

https://youtu.be/6Qqd-6N6kjY

Note the colour scale in the above video. The radiation is over 10 Bq/m^3 but under 60 Bq/m^3. Here are some relevant radiation numbers:

http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/natural.htm

The west coast is currently stressed by high temperature waters which are increasing disease and decreasing food in the surface marine ecosystem. Fukushima is not the source of the problem but global warming is.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... ia-pacific

All you anti-nuclear hysterics just love to twist the facts.
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